jhb171achill

I had thought there were four as well, but senior is sure there were six! I will delve further; it is exceptional for him to be wrong.... If there WERE six, could another two have been in a different series? I don't know. His collection also was that they were all third, and he nev saw more than one in any train.

Heirflick, there would have been the standard carriage number on one end as they normally did. Senior did not recall whether they had "flying snails" or not, as the lower panels were matchboarding, which is not conducive to the application of a large transfer which spans many panels! In CIE livery, however, they did not have Pullman lettering or branding as by that time (and long before) they had been acquired from the Pullman company and become "ordinary" stock. In response to a query as to whether the interior seats were re-used elsewhere after they were broken up, it is very doubtful.

Very low platform! A unique modelling feature? The GSWR had a lot of these; check out just about any old pic of stations on the Cork line. When I first travelled a lot way down south in the mid 70s, Mallow still had these very low platforms, and it was only comparatively recently they were brought up to full height. Others were converted many many years ago. The modern H & S police would have kittens.

Suggestions off the top'o'me'ead; a Gothic style station (GNR INW, Cootehill, Tynan or Glaslough area). A GNR "yellow brick" building. MGWR style station as at many places on the Mayo road or the Cavan or Sligo lines, with the cut stone architecture and slate roofed lean-to canopy with upright posts and wooden seating round the walls under it. Stone based water towers. West Cork style corrugated iron sheeted station building.

I saw a model railway at an exhibition once which had a squad car pulled up outside the railway goods yard, and the blue light was flashing on the roof. Two policemen had pinned a guy to the wall and were quizzing him about something. The scene was well done - maybe someone else has seen it...

It's funny. That type of thing looks horrible in real life - an eyesore we could all do without. But like a heavily weathered, graffiti'ed locomotive, it looks absolutely first class on a model! It's so true to life (unfortunately). You could add a few knackers hanging about a street corner, one with a dirty sleeping bag wrapped round him, dealing drugs to each other! (Boardwalk style!)..... Or the paper cup brigade....!! :-)

In answer to queries, I asked a few questions of those who were frequent visitors to Inchicore from the mid 1920s onwards; while this does not by any means constitute a detailed history of these coaches, I repeat some details I was told today which might not otherwise be known or obvious. Unlike UK equivalents, they had normal gangway connections and were constructed to Irish loading gauge (width and height) rather than GB gauge. Naturally, their bogies were unlike those across the water, though I have no details. There were 4 of them, and they operated mainly (if not exclusively) on the Broadstone - Galway and Kingsbridge - Cork routes. There would be one in each train as opposed to the system in GB of making up a whole train of them. He who I asked (who is 95) says he never saw them used otherwise. They were all THIRD class (albeit of a better standard than normal third class!). He does not recall second or first class, but would not rule out perhaps one being first; though he says he never saw a first class one. (That bit surprised me, I have to say!). When delivered, they may have been in Pullman livery (brown and cream), but the GSR used a brown and cream livery themselves on main line stock, therefore it is his view that any sightings of them in that livery is far more likely to be GSR brown and cream, not British-style Pullman livery. They were eventually repainted GSR maroon, and then CIE green, though CIE withdrew them after only a few years. While in GSR maroon, they had a variation on the standard, in that (a) they did not carry GSR crests, and (b) they had the inscription "GREAT SOUTHERN PULLMAN" in gold letters, shaded; this was carried on the strip above window level where British Pullmans would have had "P U L L M A N". The GSR in any case took over ownership of them entirely after 10 years in traffic (1926-36), and by 1959 all had been scrapped after quite a few years derelict. I hope this is of interest.

Certainly David - PM me and we can make arrangements. Very many thanks; I would not trust my own skills in that arena!

Wow! Excellent buildings, and 879878973647657652873982787989787676569868757877093719278537612397178923576126039196712 - 078 is awesome too. Are you the first with one in grey, I wonder?

I doubt it, Heirflick. I suspect that any attempt by me to put it together would result in criminal - and unreversible - vandalism of the kit!! I'd be looking for a professional builder / painter... My modelling skills in the past were OK for plastic kits, but not something as sophisticated and finely made as this! I'll have a couple of GSR coaches with it as a display item; now all I need alongside it is a grubby J15 with a couple of six wheelers!

Yes, I would think so, Minister. I think I have also seen a kit of some sort of British six-wheel coach which would be more than acceptable as a GSWR type. GNR(I) carriages were in a few cases not unlike some earlier GNR (England) ones.

800 will soon grace MY rails; sending a cheque off for a kit tomorrow!

There would be extremely few exact parallels, David, though many approximations. The NCC had two LMS "Jinty" 0.6.0 tank engines (regauged, obviously), and a number of ex-LMS coaches shipped in after "native" stock was destroyed when Belfast was bombed in WW2. The GSR had a couple of locos brought from GB - I think of LNW origin, but I'd have to look it up. The Tri-ang Hornby clerestorey roofed carriages with curved ends bear a passing resemblance to the style of several (of the few) bogies coaches on the Waterford & Limerick - though to make them look even more authentic, get rid of the clerestorey. Some LMS carriage kits I've seen over the years bear a reasonable resemblance to some of the older GSWR stock, though you could only use the sides as the width is too obviously narrower. BR Mk 2 and 3 carriages look OK if repainted into orange and black, and the former in NIR livery (as an Enterprise set of the 1970s / 1980s) looks the part. In terms of wagons, the same applies. As Mayner says, Irish companies generally supplied their own designs, but these were often not unlike British equivalents, so a decent repaint can make some of them look OK - at least until you get proper ones built!

Absolutely STUNNING! Very realistic weathered paint job too.

In the past, almost every time there is a major livery change there will be a short period during which exceptions of all sorts, often a mix of old and new, can be seen. In the early 1960s it was commonplace (for a short time) to see navy and cream GNR railcars with UTA crests and numerals on them, the old GN crests having been painted out. Around 1967, 70 class railcars carried no badge of ownership for a short time, as this was the turnover from UTA to NIR. One "Jeep" (the preserved No. 4) briefly carried a UTA crest on one side tank, and a new NIR logo on the other. Shortly after 1987, locos could be seen (as descirbed above) with the IR "set of points" logo but not yet the "tippex stripes", which often only came with the first full repaint. Then, as now, economy was the watchword. Now we are going to see a period when the new "tricolour" or "sideways Z" logo slowly replaces the wavy stripes or the "three pin plug" logo. We ALMOST had a newly painted grey 071 with the "three pin plug"!

I'm unaware of that, Hidden-agenda. I can't help doubting it - I would imagine seats took up more space in Pullmans than other stock, so re-use of them might have compromised leg room. That said, we are looking at an era when anything that could be re-used, often was. I will make a few enquiries.

Locos most definitely were cleaner in days of yore. Unless we are talking about the twilight years of steam!

Yes, Anthony, I'll check. The ones left (one, perhaps?) on the scrap line in Naas about 1959 was indeed in a very sorry state cosmetically, and broken windows. I think that by that stage they had been out of use for a good while. One would make a nice addition to a layout in 40s or early 50s. Wonder what one would have looked like in black'n'tan! Probably quite well.....

Yes! And I have heard (from a reliable source) of someone seeing one in the early 60s with a wagon of beet behind it, possibly on the Limerick - Sligo line or North Kerry, but (a) it hardly matters, and (b) I don't recall. But I also know of them hauling horse boxes and standard "H" vans from time to time.

Ah! She's in new IE freight livery!!! :-)

Absolutely superb paint jobs on all of those! Love the weathering on the 201 roof.

I've seen pics of them when derelict at Naas awaiting their appointment with the scrap man. They were in faded CIE green - but with black ends, as with all coaches painted by CIE. The one thing I can be fairly sure of is that their external appearance was not altered during their lives, so if you do see pics of them at the end of their lives, that's also the way they were before. I can't recall if they had "snails" on them or not. I don't know either what classes of passenger accommodation they had - I must ask He Who Knows (i.e. who travelled in them). I suspect they were all firsts but I'll check and post here whatever I am told.

Unusual indeed! Anyone who has Brian Baker's absolutely superb DVD of the West Cork system will see the Bantry train consisting of two AEC cars either side of a Park Royal on one oc casion, and in another shot a four car set has an old 1902-vintage GSWR open third (same as 836 at Downpatrick) plus an early laminate in between; in yet another an AEC set is hauling a Midland Great Western 6 wheeler from the early Pre-Cambrian era... and I've seen a pic of an AEC set somewhere near Killarney with two cattle trucks in tow. Ideal stuff for modellers.

Maybe the Aussies might build a replica! Possibly cheaper......... :-)

Why does the last digit of the numb er vary, and why can't they make the "077" bit larger, or even a different colour, as on railcars? Also, why can't they seek exemption due to inability to mix with other ralway operators in mainland Europe - as some self contained railways have been able to do?