jhb171achill

Colm Any debate on UTA green can, happily, be definitively settled as numerous examples of actual paint exist. The most accessible is on both the "red-hand roundel" and the post-1963 "coast of arms" UTA crests in Selwyn Johnston's "Headhunters" museum in Enniskillen - the background boards in most crests in that collection are actual paint from the companies concerned. Prior to installation in Headhunters they were deliberately kept in a location away from sunlight to preserve colours. If anyone is interested in some of the more obscure, or least verifiable, actual liveries of the past, that collection is an ideal source of reference. DUTC / CIE dark green (same thing, as CIE copied it!) can be had there too on the backgrounds of the DUTC crest and Flying Snail. The only thing to be aware of is that colours don't translate well from actual to model, or worse still, vice versa; 461's current green is a case in point as it is not accurate CIE green, having been copied from the late Drew Donaldson's models. Accurate UTA green may also be found on some preserved buses. Just as CIE copied DUTC green, so did the UTA copy the old N I Road Transport Board's green, though they inverted the light and dark on buses. For the record, NCC, LMS and (post 1935) GSR maroon were the same. There is some evidence that the BCDR may have used the same stuff from time to time, but in any event their own maroon wasn't much different - maybe a very slight shade darker, son made indistinguishable by brake dust and wear 'n' tear! Having seen your models years ago at an exhibition, they certainly look the part to me - excellent work too, most inspirational. If there is some slight in discrepancy it's such a miniscule one as to be unnoticeable.

I'm looking forward to Monday!

Had a word today with one who remembers well - they were originally a lightish brown.

Yes, it's meant to be like the old GNR livery. For purists, the GNR version did not have blue above window level, nor a black line; it was blue below only. Also, the blue is Dublin RPSI blue, but the GNR shade was much darker and may be seen today on the Fintona Tram (of all things!) in the UFTM. The old Belfast paint firm, Jamison & Green, hold the original spec for both the navy blue and the cream, as well as authentic UTA green. They supplied all three - and these are the only genuine Irish psi t specifications still held on file by any company. The diner and bar have been treated as above, with the three "RPSI Blue" coaches remaining as they are. The genny was not repainted as it is due to come out of traffic once its companion is finished by the RPSI's Mullingar squad. This coach, another BR genny, will be the last RPSI coach to be treated in Mullingar, and will be turned out in blue.

Absolutely, Dhu Varren.

Correct - there won't be any possibility, unfortunately, of anyone aboard.

The green is possibly a bit flat and light... curtains were probably either a fawn or reddish colour, though might have been a goldeny brown colour too.

The re-gauging looks fantastic - interested to hear how this was accomplished.

If interested in such things, the unique "North Atlantic" dining car would be an amazing subject for a model. Point of info: the one at Whitehead (No. 87) was built by the UTA, not the NCC, though to a broadly NCC-inspired design. The RPSI has it in the very attractive NCC lined maroon livery, but it's important to bear in mind that it never carried this livery, as obviously with a build date of 1951 it was UTA green from the outset. The UTA's version of "Brunswick Green" was, as another point of information, somewhat darker than the green that BR used, though described in the same way. The exact specification is held by Jamison & Green in Belfast. The DCDR carriage, 728, is painted in a much lighter shade which is really more like CIE green.

I always thought St Molaga would have been ideal for the DCDR!

A 201 in Black and Tan...... Photoshop, anyone?

I think that 215 would look a bit more realistic with a bit of weathering......what ye think?

In the process of a house move, DiveController, I find that some of the more detailed minutae I have records of remain in storage, but I am afraid I'm nearly certain they don't include exact dates for the above!

I think it was just a marketing image decision to make them bigger. Certainly, several 141s got the small one, but I'm nearly sure that no 121s did. I am not certain when it was first applied.

Like all main lines (and secondary) the stock used on the Galway line in the sixties was a complete mix of Park Royals, Laminates (of various varieties; remember, not all were alike), Cravens and Bredins. The odd wooden coach would be in there to pre-1965 or so, and one six wheel wooden full brake of GSWR origin was also to be seen. Trains would typically have four or six wheeled "tin vans" as produced by Mayner.

The "three pin plug" logo..... what aspect of its history are you interested in? It was IE's second logo, after the "set of points" logo introduced in 1987. It was current until the last 071 was repainted black and silver a few years ago.

The CIE laminates were all derivitaves of the GSR designs introduced 1933-7. Early CIE builds (1950-4) were very much like them. None were LMS or BR, though similar to the former. The livery the GSR used on these was almost exactly the same as the LMS, with same lining pattern.

Absolutely too class, superb. Brings back so many memories of travelling in those and having breakfast complete with dribble teapot..... Congratulations for bringing alive yet another once commonplace item for modellers.

The all-white CIE logo on the as-delivered 071's was also a different size. The "roundel" was of a larger diameter, and the letters were marginally bigger too.

You could even remove Athenry to collooney and the new ross line, and kingscourt and Youghal as they are long since not passable..... The South Wexford is technically open and is passable, but that's not going to operate again. Fast forward not too far and will nenagh also be re-coloured blue?

CDRJC: light green on paintwork timber, eg window frames; walks Indian red and deep cream. MGWR: red and cream GSR: dark green and dark cream, often separated by a black line about an inch thick CIE: until the 1960s, generally much the same as GSR, but as mentioned from the very early 60s red and cream schemes appeared here and there, including West Cork. Amiens Street got light blue at one stage, and various one-offs were to be seen around Dublin. After that, two-tone grey and white was universal, as also mentioned above. IE days brought a dark green with a bluish tint, also the two tone blue and red referred to; latterly the grey and cream (which I must say I personally think us awful, but that's only my opinion!)... GNR: very similar to GSR internally (green and cream), but externally shades of browns and red on occasion; also green like GSR. The GNR painted station signs variously in red on a white background, black on a yellow background (this being continued by the UTA and spread to ex-NCC and Bangor line), and white on a black background. White lettering on black backgrounds seems to have been standard on a lot of railways. The GNR had it in early says, and the GSR used it mostly, though Fenit at least was black on white. The MGWR had navy blue signs with white lettering, as did the WLWR. The BCDR had stations painted as now accurately reproduced on the DCDR. Fencing was often silver looking as it was painted (even if wooden) with the same sort of galvanised silvery grey paint as used on bridges!

I'd say that's about right. Obviously, it didn't happen to all of them overnight so there'd be a bit of leeway

I would say that the RPSI will be very much to the forefront of any future whole-train hire. Their Cravens and Whitehead Mk 2's will probably be adequate.

....and the muffins are ghastly......

Unbelievably good! My recollections of early ones certainly had a power car at each end, but as others have mentioned, not for long. Driving Trailer 713 ended up at Downpatrick but was destroyed by scumbag vandals in the Boxing Day fire about 10 years ago. It had most recently been in use as a "Santa's Grotto", but was burned completely. Driving trailer 728 survives, though, and is currently in traffic in its earlier version as a UTA coach.