Any major info about the IE 201 Class?

[228RiverOwenboy]

Good afternoon everyone, I'm currently making plans on a historical video of the history of the 201 class, and I was wondering if there was anything noticeable about them, and if there was anything major that would be crucial to add into the script, or hopefully some misconceptions that could be corrected.

[jhb171achill]

Just now, 228RiverOwenboy said:

Good afternoon everyone, I'm currently making plans on a historical video of the history of the 201 class, and I was wondering if there was anything noticeable about them, and if there was anything major that would be crucial to add into the script, or hopefully some misconceptions that could be corrected.

Do you mean the original “C” class or the 1996 ones?

[228RiverOwenboy]

I'm mostly on about the 1994 ones, which still run today

[jhb171achill]

43 minutes ago, 228RiverOwenboy said:

I'm mostly on about the 1994 ones, which still run today

Ah, ok. Do you have the ITG books about diesels? There’s tabular stuff there. For day-to-day alterations, livery changes and info on what’s running and what’s stored, the IRRS or ITG journals would be the best source.

[228RiverOwenboy]

1 hour ago, jhb171achill said:

Ah, ok. Do you have the ITG books about diesels? There’s tabular stuff there. For day-to-day alterations, livery changes and info on what’s running and what’s stored, the IRRS or ITG journals would be the best source.

Just ordered one now, I need to get one of these!

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, 228RiverOwenboy said:

Just ordered one now, I need to get one of these!

I think if you emailed the ITG they might be able to point you towards some back issues or other info. Good luck! 

A bit too modern for me to be able to be of much direct assistance but I hope you find what you need.

[hexagon789]

4 hours ago, 228RiverOwenboy said:

Good afternoon everyone, I'm currently making plans on a historical video of the history of the 201 class, and I was wondering if there was anything noticeable about them, and if there was anything major that would be crucial to add into the script, or hopefully some misconceptions that could be corrected.

It depends what exactly your looking for, but important to say DO NOT rely on Wikipedia as a source.

A lot of the technical data on the IÉ 201 Class on Wiki is, to be kind, somewhat innacurate.

Power-at-rail is 2,480hp not 2,970

Their maximum speed is 165km/h  (and yes it is km/h and not an even 100mph though that is their maximum in service), that is what they were designed to.

Little things of this nature. 

I would trust the data from the IRRS Journal of the period, provided with data straight from IÉ themselves more than facts from Wikipedia some 25+ years later that anyone can theoretically input.

 

Good luck with your project.

[jhb171achill]

4 minutes ago, hexagon789 said:

It depends what exactly your looking for, but important to say DO NOT rely on Wikipedia as a source.

A lot of the technical data on the IÉ 201 Class on Wiki is, to be kind, somewhat innacurate.

Power-at-rail is 2,480hp not 2,970

Their maximum speed is 165km/h  (and yes it is km/h and not an even 100mph though that is their maximum in service), that is what they were designed to.

Little things of this nature. 

I would trust the data from the IRRS Journal of the period, provided with data straight from IÉ themselves more than facts from Wikipedia some 25+ years later that anyone can theoretically input.

 

Good luck with your project.

Couldn't agree more, Hexagon - some Wiki stuff is is 100% on the money and well written, but other stuff there is drivel or a misleading half-story!

[hexagon789]

1 minute ago, jhb171achill said:

Couldn't agree more, Hexagon - some Wiki stuff is is 100% on the money and well written, but other stuff there is drivel or a misleading half-story!

It's fine when the articles are backed up by authorative sources, but so many are backed up by poor sources or none at all.

Personally I'd rather just go to the authoritative source in the first place if possible.

It has its uses as a quick way of obtaining an outline picture and some of the historical articles are an interesting read, but I find anything transport related, particularly rail, seems to lack clarity and accuracy in data all too often.

One only has to look at the reasons why editing on the article on British Class 390 Pendolinos is locked without admin approval to see what I mean!

[228RiverOwenboy]

I do have one question, when did the 201s receive their overhauls?

And when did their lights get changed? As I've noticed that they're now more flat and rounded than a few years back when they were square and boxy

2 hours ago, hexagon789 said:

It depends what exactly your looking for, but important to say DO NOT rely on Wikipedia as a source.

A lot of the technical data on the IÉ 201 Class on Wiki is, to be kind, somewhat innacurate.

Power-at-rail is 2,480hp not 2,970

Their maximum speed is 165km/h  (and yes it is km/h and not an even 100mph though that is their maximum in service), that is what they were designed to.

Little things of this nature. 

I would trust the data from the IRRS Journal of the period, provided with data straight from IÉ themselves more than facts from Wikipedia some 25+ years later that anyone can theoretically input.

 

Good luck with your project.

And thank you very much with the technical facts! I'm currently working on a video of the entire history of the 201 Class

[jhb171achill]

I think the lights are the same - the left-hand image looks compressed…..

[228RiverOwenboy]

1 minute ago, jhb171achill said:

I think the lights are the same - the left-hand image looks compressed…..

I do apologize for the low quality, as it was the best close-ups I could really find. But there has to be some kind of difference, the light's shape must've been changed a little, since the 201s nowadays have a rounded and smoother shape.

Edited December 7, 2021 by 228RiverOwenboy
.

[jhb171achill]

4 minutes ago, 228RiverOwenboy said:

I do apologize for the low quality, as it was the best close-ups I could really find. But there has to be some kind of difference, the light's shape must've been changed a little, since the 201s nowadays have a rounded and smoother shape.

I’ll check out a few pics and report back if I see anything relevant!

[228RiverOwenboy]

Just now, jhb171achill said:

I’ll check out a few pics and report back if I see anything relevant!

Alright, cheers!

[hexagon789]

11 minutes ago, 228RiverOwenboy said:

I do apologize for the low quality, as it was the best close-ups I could really find. But there has to be some kind of difference, the light's shape must've been changed a little, since the 201s nowadays have a rounded and smoother shape.

I don't think that photo shows it, but the 201s, as per other surviving IÉ locos, had LED marker lights fitted during the early 2000s replacing the original ones. This does give an noticeable change in appearance.

One of the NIR 111s was so treated by IÉ when on loan to them as well.

I believe the IRRS journals detailed the changes, but I won't be able to check them until tomorrow afternoon, so I'll get back to you on that.

While I'm at it I'll look out the issue which details the 201 Class entry to service and gives all the various technical details.

8 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

I’ll check out a few pics and report back if I see anything relevant!

I'm guessing it's the change to LED markers, sadly my go to photo resource of Flickr appears to be having some hiccoughs involving some naughty pandas right now, so I can't link in a few photos to show what I believe is being referred to here to illustrate the difference.

With any luck the issues will be resolved tomorrow and I'll be able to link some photos, but if you've any to hand JHB of 201s as new and then from about 2001/2-ish onwards I think you'll spot the difference with the marker/tail lights.

[Rob]

Great idea-  l know l will be in the minority but l am a big fan of anything 201-related!!

I like the fact they are still around hauling passenger trains, aswell as the freight and you can see them 'up close' everyday.

The 201 'yellow faces' began in the orange livery in 2005 and the Green/Silver 'Intercity' livery began (with the same 'yellow faces') in mid 2006.   

[228RiverOwenboy]

10 hours ago, Rob said:

Great idea-  l know l will be in the minority but l am a big fan of anything 201-related!!

I like the fact they are still around hauling passenger trains, aswell as the freight and you can see them 'up close' everyday.

The 201 'yellow faces' began in the orange livery in 2005 and the Green/Silver 'Intercity' livery began (with the same 'yellow faces') in mid 2006.   

Apparently number 214 was the first one to receive it, but I'm not sure if it's true or whatnot

[Rob]

Nice picture from Colm O'Callaghan's book 'Irish Traction- larnród Éireann' showing 219 fresh in the new Intercity Livery in June 2006.

You wouldn't think the Green/Silver 201 era crossed over with the Guiness kegs- they kind of seem different eras!

Edited December 8, 2021 by Rob

[Westcorkrailway]

43 minutes ago, Rob said:

Nice picture from Colm O'Callaghan's book 'Irish Traction- larnród Éireann' showing 219 fresh in the new Intercity Livery in June 2006.

You wouldn't think the Green/Silver 201 era crossed over with the Guiness kegs- they kind of seem different eras!

It does seem a little surreal Dosent it

 

I do love the Intercity livery EXCEPT for the colour of the chassis. Even though weathering made the chassis a more suitable colour very quickly 

[jhb171achill]

47 minutes ago, Westcorkrailway said:

I do love the Intercity livery EXCEPT for the colour of the chassis. Even though weathering made the chassis a more suitable colour very quickly 

And yet for almost all of railway history the wagons had the same colour as the body - which was often grey of various shades including light grey.... I remember thinking the 2600 railcars looked odd when they appeared in the "Fanta can" livery with grey chassis. Naturally, like a light grey 121 or a grey steam engine, brake dust and general gunk soon became the "livery" of the wheel area plus the body - but it did exactly the same if the chassis was initially brown or black!

Edited December 8, 2021 by jhb171achill

[Westcorkrailway]

24 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

And yet for almost all of railway history the wagons had the same colour as the body - which was often grey of various shades including light grey.... I remember thinking the 2600 railcars looked odd when they appeared in the "Fanta can" livery with grey chassis. Naturally, like a light grey 121 or a grey steam engine, brake dust and general gunk soon became the "livery" of the wheel area plus the body - but it did exactly the same if the chassis was initially brown or black!

At least the grey 121 had a black chassis. CIE surly knew weathering on these light grey locos would be horrendous (the whole reason the black n tan\Black/black with yellow front end liveries came in was to hide the crossely gunk compared to silver and light green. So I don’t understand the “paint primer” grey chassis on the 201 and indeed on the 2600 class

[Dempsey]

18 hours ago, Rob said:

Great idea-  l know l will be in the minority but l am a big fan of anything 201-related!!

I like the fact they are still around hauling passenger trains, aswell as the freight and you can see them 'up close' everyday.

The 201 'yellow faces' began in the orange livery in 2005 and the Green/Silver 'Intercity' livery began (with the same 'yellow faces') in mid 2006.   

Big fan myself of the class. I wish I had information to add to your project but best of luck with it and I look forward to seeing the results. 

[jhb171achill]

38 minutes ago, Westcorkrailway said:

At least the grey 121 had a black chassis. CIE surly knew weathering on these light grey locos would be horrendous (the whole reason the black n tan\Black/black with yellow front end liveries came in was to hide the crossely gunk compared to silver and light green. So I don’t understand the “paint primer” grey chassis on the 201 and indeed on the 2600 class

True, though my point about the 121s was that even the body got dirty - a strange colour for a railway loco and even more so considering that when the 121s were new and in that livery, they were still working alongside steam engines! Worse, the "silver" A, C and B101 classes had SILVER bogies - until they'd been in use for an hour or so..........

And today's 071s, same - Inchicore's 1915 decision to paint everything on wheels grey lives on!

[228RiverOwenboy]

Lovely! I've added the majority of the info onto the script...Now I just need some more technical information about these absolute units; for example, is there any difference between their engine and the 66's.

Thank you all for all of this, it has really helped me with my project.

4 hours ago, Westcorkrailway said:

It does seem a little surreal Dosent it

 

I do love the Intercity livery EXCEPT for the colour of the chassis. Even though weathering made the chassis a more suitable colour very quickly 

Funny enough, the first time I saw one of these in the Intercity Green and Silver livery, I genuinely thought that the chassis' colour was pure black, since it was so dark from the dirt!

[jhb171achill]

8 minutes ago, 228RiverOwenboy said:

 

Funny enough, the first time I saw one of these in the Intercity Green and Silver livery, I genuinely thought that the chassis' colour was pure black, since it was so dark from the dirt!

Exact same with GSR & CIE steam engines. While some WERE black rather than grey, many people thought that many more were too, due to dirt - and soot! All were grey* until the mid-50s, and most were even after that. A steam engine uncared for gets a whole lot dirtier than a diesel, and quicker, though Crossley-engined "A"'s were very much up there with steam, if not sometimes even worse.

(* bar the green ones. Ye know what I mean!    )

[Westcorkrailway]

Between 2006 and now did the class ever get a repaint? I know at some point maybe around 2015 the logos changed from the old IE logo to the new IE logo. Did they get repainted in that period? And also we’re the chassis on the slightly changed livery given a “slate grey chassis” in that repaint. Because if they didn’t the grubbiness looks really clean on the underbodies. And it’s always confused me a bit. 

[Mayner]

5 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

And yet for almost all of railway history the wagons had the same colour as the body - which was often grey of various shades including light grey.... I remember thinking the 2600 railcars looked odd when they appeared in the "Fanta can" livery with grey chassis. Naturally, like a light grey 121 or a grey steam engine, brake dust and general gunk soon became the "livery" of the wheel area plus the body - but it did exactly the same if the chassis was initially brown or black!

The original B121 scheme is very close to the Clinchfield 800  https://www.csx.com/index.cfm/about-us/legacy-locomotives/clinchfield-800-legacy-locomotive/

Coal hauling railroads in the Southern States such as the Louisville and Nashville, Clinchfield and even todays CSX were partial to grey locos, the big Alcos and GEs used on the heavy coal trains were famous for their black smoky exhaust

https://www.flickr.com/photos/wrongmain/8917589648

Going back to the 201s, the green and grey scheme had appeared by July 2005

 

 

[exciecoachbuilder]

10 hours ago, Westcorkrailway said:

Between 2006 and now did the class ever get a repaint? I know at some point maybe around 2015 the logos changed from the old IE logo to the new IE logo. Did they get repainted in that period? And also we’re the chassis on the slightly changed livery given a “slate grey chassis” in that repaint. Because if they didn’t the grubbiness looks really clean on the underbodies. And it’s always confused me a bit. 
ii

Hi, the paint on the loco body was painted with ICI multistripe paint. Multistripe, which meant it had a 40 minute drying time ( flash off) when baked. This meant that you could mask up quickly, and continue on spraying more colours etc. Then, when all the colours where finished, the multistripe painted part of the loco would be given two coats of laquer. The unerframe/ bogies, on the other hand were painted with ICI turbo plus paint. Turbo plus is a gloss finish paint, but it takes hours to dry, even after being baked, which meant that you could only do one colour, maybe two a day, which wasn't practical when doing multi coloured liveries. Irish rail were not going to use the much more expensive multistripe paint on bogies and underframes. When the new paint shop in Inchicore opened 1999/ 2000, the Cravens, MK 2's , MK3's , loco's, the whole lot, were painted with Turbo plus. It wasn't until they decided to do multi coloured liveries , that they needed to use a paint that would bascially speed up the job, hence the multistripe. I hope this answers some questions. Paul..

[228RiverOwenboy]

Anything about 230? I heard she had repairs in 2017 in the shed, and now she's moved out of it into a siding, coupled to an Orange 201

[bufferstop]

13 hours ago, exciecoachbuilder said:

Hi, the paint on the loco body was painted with ICI multistripe paint. Multistripe, which meant it had a 40 minute drying time ( flash off) when baked. This meant that you could mask up quickly, and continue on spraying more colours etc. Then, when all the colours where finished, the multistripe painted part of the loco would be given two coats of laquer. The unerframe/ bogies, on the other hand were painted with ICI turbo plus paint. Turbo plus is a gloss finish paint, but it takes hours to dry, even after being baked, which meant that you could only do one colour, maybe two a day, which wasn't practical when doing multi coloured liveries. Irish rail were not going to use the much more expensive multistripe paint on bogies and underframes. When the new paint shop in Inchicore opened 1999/ 2000, the Cravens, MK 2's , MK3's , loco's, the whole lot, were painted with Turbo plus. It wasn't until they decided to do multi coloured liveries , that they needed to use a paint that would bascially speed up the job, hence the multistripe. I hope this answers some questions. Paul..

That is one of the most definitive answers that I've ever heard to a question about Irish railways. Thanks for even taking the trouble to write it. Keep it lit!

[jhb171achill]

14 hours ago, exciecoachbuilder said:

Hi, the paint on the loco body was painted with ICI multistripe paint. Multistripe, which meant it had a 40 minute drying time ( flash off) when baked. This meant that you could mask up quickly, and continue on spraying more colours etc. Then, when all the colours where finished, the multistripe painted part of the loco would be given two coats of laquer. The unerframe/ bogies, on the other hand were painted with ICI turbo plus paint. Turbo plus is a gloss finish paint, but it takes hours to dry, even after being baked, which meant that you could only do one colour, maybe two a day, which wasn't practical when doing multi coloured liveries. Irish rail were not going to use the much more expensive multistripe paint on bogies and underframes. When the new paint shop in Inchicore opened 1999/ 2000, the Cravens, MK 2's , MK3's , loco's, the whole lot, were painted with Turbo plus. It wasn't until they decided to do multi coloured liveries , that they needed to use a paint that would bascially speed up the job, hence the multistripe. I hope this answers some questions. Paul..

Superb and very interesting answer, thank you!

[exciecoachbuilder]

9 hours ago, bufferstop said:

That is one of the most definitive answers that I've ever heard to a question about Irish railways. Thanks for even taking the trouble to write it. Keep it lit!

Thank you, it was a pleasure.....  Paul.

9 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Superb and very interesting answer, thank you!

Thank you Jonathan... Paul.

[228RiverOwenboy]

On 8/12/2021 at 10:24 PM, Westcorkrailway said:

Between 2006 and now did the class ever get a repaint? I know at some point maybe around 2015 the logos changed from the old IE logo to the new IE logo. Did they get repainted in that period? And also we’re the chassis on the slightly changed livery given a “slate grey chassis” in that repaint. Because if they didn’t the grubbiness looks really clean on the underbodies. And it’s always confused me a bit. 

That actually does remind me, apparently 229 was the last one to have one of the old Intercity logos before it got replaced with the Iarnrod Eireann logo, but I'm not really sure

[228RiverOwenboy]

Would anyone know what 201 involved in this incident would be? It's a 201 that hauled a Mark 3 set which derailed in Knockcroghery...Any other info about the incident, such as the cause?

[flange lubricator]

The loco was 211