Irish Model Railway track plans

[David Holman]

 I don't know about anyone else, but I often get inspired to create model track plans, even though I know they will never get built. Almost a case of exorcism, give that time and resources are inevitably finite...

 Anyway, among several others, Angus's latest posts on layout planning set me thinking that perhaps a dedicated ideas thread might be of interest and hopefully generate a bit of discussion. There are plenty of books on layout planning of course & I've certainly bought a few over the years, but it strikes me that, while on the one hand, Irish track plans are not that dissimilar to British ones, they tend to have their own specific features [like almost every terminus having a turntable], not to say a few peculiarities too. Trains having to reverse out of the terminus being one, as in the case of the Clifden branch out of Galway or the Schull line out of Skibbereen. So, here might be a good place to share some favourites.

 In additional, there are also factors, as discussed in Angus's thread about what actually works as a design - both from an operational and/or visual point of view. Scale is another, for we all have a finite amount of space to work in, while shunting layouts are probably better suited to medium and larger scales. Also, what you you want from your model railway? Some of us, me included, are more interested in building things [and creating as realistic a scene as possible], than operating, a reason why  Iain Rice & Bob Barlow's magnificent Orford Quay has always inspired. Just look at those winter trees, for example.

  So, to get things rolling, here are a couple of thoughts. Rice's take on Westport Quay has been mentioned recently, so below we have the approximate layout, plus his adaption from his Light Railway's book for a Scottish theme. I really like the little quayside extension's scenic potential and notice how the provision of two sidings there mean you can do some basic shunting in that area.

 I also like his fishing harbour design, Especially the way the two sidings extend out on to the pier. 

 However, all three designs lack a turntable [ok, Westport Quay didn't have one anyway], but one of many things that can bug me about layout design is where any shunting can end up with the loco and part of the train actually having to go off scene to make it happen. One of the most extreme versions of this is the Barry Norman design below. Very compact and probably really only a diorama, but you would hardly ever see your prized locos on scene. The same could be said for the almost honorary Irish railway, the Bishop's Castle - though few if any Irish lines ever degenerated into the state this line got into. It's a nice track plan and the addition of a turntable would make it very Irish I think, but you do need a decent bit of mainline out of the station to allow all operation to be 'on scene'.

 Finally, for now, I've thrown in my own Fintonagh track plan, as an example of how you can keep nearly all the action on scene, including a turntable. Note too the siding sneaking off stage left at the front edge. With only two short sidings on scene, this allows for pretty much any sort of additional traffic, without needing to to model that section - a useful dodge I've used many times.  Yes, trains are short [just four wagons], but the layout is fully operable and has proven to sustain interest of numerous shows. As an idea, it could easily made larger of course, something that rarely works the other way round.

 Anyway, hope this starts some worthwhile discussion, as I for one am always interested in new ideas for track plans.

[Northroader]

I like Iain Rices book, but some of his designs towards the back of this tend to squeeze a siding too many, Clun, f’instance. The Bishops Castle plan you show could happily lose the middle crossover, and get shorter in the process.

Edited March 13, 2022 by Northroader

[David Holman]

Indeed, though if I did the BCR, then I'd probably do Lydham Heath. Minimal, to say the least, but a reversing point, so reasonable activity. 7mm scale, radio controlled battery power, to enable a decent depth of weeds in the track. Plus the iconic Carlisle, of course. Find me an excuse for a similar loco to have run in Ireland and I'd be very tempted to build it in broad gauge. That said, Barry Norman has already done Lydham Heath in S - and very fine it is too.

[jhb171achill]

Westport Quay mentioned above.... the layout I have, "Dugort Harbour" was initially intended to be an exact replica of this place. It had everything as a realistic terminus for someone who lives in a house smaller than Rod Stewart's - sidings laid out in a less-than-usual way, enough to generate as much interest as anyone wants in terms of shunting, etc., plus a platform for passenger services, as there had very briefly been a passenger service in the early days of this line. Turntable one thing missing, though.

The track plan I have still resembles WQ closely, but the major reason I tweaked it was not because of restrictions of design - it was because at time of conception nothing whatsoever of MGWR origin was available. Now there are Midland locos - though coaches remain glaringly absent. 

The concept of the layout is that passenger service hung on by a thread until the late 1960s.

There were a number of very compact termini which would act as very good inspiration for a space-constricted layout. Fintona, with a passenger platform enough for a single double-ended railcar like the GNR / UTA Gardner car 101. Very compact and interesting layout, though again no turntable.

Castleisland scores high - compact and has everything. Nearby, Fenit with or without its pier.

As a small through station, rather than terminus, places like Belcoo and Dunsandle, or some of the stations on the South Wexford, would make a nice model.

Wexford South would make an interesting and very compact station, as it was initially built as a very small terminus. And then you've Tramore!

At the risk of starting a litany of lists of other places, the above could be taken as just a few of many. The narrow gauge has many compact places too, both termini and through stations.

[David Holman]

And then there is Courtmacsherry, for me t h e perfect branch terminus in all sorts of ways, not least the way the town provides the backscene and the loco shed hides the hole in the sky to the fiddle yard. Quite long though, as Andy's splendid recreation shows, but then a bit of pruning and rename it Port Macsherry and it becomes doable even in 7mm scale, especially given much of the stock to run on it is available from Alphagraphix.

[Mayner]

Its an interesting topic, while many of Rice's schemes were fictitious or freelance in concept, the majority of the responses have looked to the prototype for examples. 

A lot depends of what you want out of a layout and the available space, its sometimes its easier to fit a OO gauge double tracked main layout into a smaller space than a finescale single tracked terminus.

One concept could be a compact Cyril Freezer style double tracked layout with two stations (one a through terminus of Junction) and short 3-4 coach trains based on Irish Main Line practice, each line with its distinct architectural style and character

Pre-DART Dublin suburban with a simplified model of Dunlaoire, Seapoint or Blackrock or pre-CTC Cork Line with its distinct sky signals and double pole runs Hazlehatch, or Sallins as center of interest and Straffan, the Midland with the Royal Canal on the climb from North Wall to Clonsilla, Cork-Cobh with its riverside running, wet cuttings bridges and small halts had more in common with a rustic branch line than a busy suburban.

The might of been are almost countless from the early Railway Mania schemes to build Trunk Lines from Dublin to Valencia, Dublin to Enniskillen, rival Dublin-Belfast schemes, to the last days of Empire with the "All Red Route" from the United Kingdom to Canada and perhaps overland to the East via Belmullet to the more humble such as the Mullingar and Ballymahon Tramway, plans to revive and extend the Parsonstown and Portumna to Loughrea and an extension of the Dublin and Blessington to Holywood and across the Wicklow Gap to Glendalough and Rathdrum.

[Northroader]

A trip way back in the past, to the Jan/Feb 1950 “Railway Modeller”, which set quite a lot of modellers off. It was a 6x4 giving a branch line with a continuous run. I’ve drawn it from memory, not having the original to hand, and you’ve got a small terminus, with a nice length of run through a halt and a siding, then disappearing behind a scenic break where it splits, one line which could be used for stabling going on to join in front of the station to form the oval, and the other into a dead end siding to form a fiddle yard, although since then cassettes have been introduced.

Then it’s just a question of tailoring it to where you want, and you might need to consider your waistline with the access hole. I did try it, making a softwood frame and insulation board top, but I did it as a one piece, and not having the dedicated space, it had to store under my bed, not the best place, and I was in my late teens, away from home to college and so on, so it never really stood a chance.

[David Holman]

Could well be this one, from Cyril Freezer's book of small track plans, first published in 1960. My copy dates to 1971 and cost me 17p!

 It's actually a nice plan, offering plenty of operational potential, though the curves are very tight at just 18" radius. As Cyril said on several occasions, many of his plans would benefit if the was a foot of extra space all round. These days, we'd probably want at least two feet and even then the radius would only be 30".

[Sean]

cool idea for a thread, particularly like westport quay, its the basis for my own layout but using a different drawing, which was posted here a number of years ago, I too have tweaked away from the original design to accomodate a much later era but it still retains most of the original track design, the goods shed area is removed and the goods platform survives for loading hopper trains. you wouldnt really know by looking at it now that it used to be westport so i think that makes me a bit happier too. i managed to get a turntable in albeit not as long as one would normally be. and an oil depot siding. so things do deviate quite a bit.

initially the level crossing had been down in the bottom right corner where there is now hard standing, this would have allowed me to turn this siding into a through road, to a smaller modular boxfile or somthing, which would have allowed me to change the use of the layout by simply changing out the box. settled for this design in the end though as i had a fairly rigid set of freight industry that i am interested in running.

 

the size of this layout could be reduced dramatically if one decided to stick with small tank engines and loose coupled stock, however in this guise its a 90's terminus so the larger size was essential.

 

the train does leave the scene whilst shunting as mentioned as a possible annoyance in an opening post. yes, but its a fairly long diesel consist doing pretty long shunts so if i was standing there with a camera in real life, similarly a large part of the train would go off scene during the clip.

 

 

[jhb171achill]

21 minutes ago, Sean said:

..........the size of this layout could be reduced dramatically if one decided to stick with small tank engines and loose coupled stock, however in this guise its a 90's terminus so the larger size was essential.

Indeed. If I were to do that in my "era" (1950s-1970), I would probably use a J15 or a "G" class and shunt a few trucks even if there wasn't even room for a terminus.

However, as late as 1990, it would be fairly credible to have some sort of small freight terminal handling fertiliser and cement, for example - possibly a fictitious place that would have started life in 1890-something as a similar type of place top Westport Quay, all operated with a Murphy 141. 

Nice plan you have above there!

[David Holman]

Good stuff folks, this is just the sort of thing I was hoping might develop.

 There are clearly many might have been and adaptations to be explored, but here's an interesting one:

What is the largest town in Ireland never to have a railway? And should that be in terms of present day or, say, 1900 population?

[StevieB]

Correct me if I’m wrong but I believe the largest town unconnected to the rail network is now Letterkenny.

Stephen

[Lambeg man]

Now - Omagh?

1900 - Ardara, Cushendall, Ballywalter, Kilkeel (Co. Down), Lisdoonvarna, Callan (Co. Kilkenny) or Passage East (Co. Waterford)? Is there a correct answer to this question David? If so, put us all out of our misery! LM

 

Edited March 14, 2022 by Lambeg man

[Westcorkrailway]

37 minutes ago, David Holman said:

Good stuff folks, this is just the sort of thing I was hoping might develop.

 There are clearly many might have been and adaptations to be explored, but here's an interesting one:

What is the largest town in Ireland never to have a railway? And should that be in terms of present day or, say, 1900 population?

That’s a fantastic question 

 

I’m even thinking of towns in cork and can’t name too many that never ever had a rail connection. Killbritain, castownbere, glengarrif, ballycotton, cloyne, leap and rosscarbery.

Castletownbere and glengarrif were origionally supposed to be done in the origional CBSCR line, but instead those areas were served by steamship to the railway at bantry a fiticous glengarrif is already imagined in a layout by Ernie of this parish

leap and rosscarbery were also supposed to be part of a line between Clonakilty and skibbereen. Which was also scrapped.

Perhaps a fictitious line where a junction at Middleton bought you down to ballycotton via cloyne.

 

man that’s only one county!

 

Does anyone know any other major exclusions from getting a railway station, bellmullet?  Louisburgh? 

 

[jhb171achill]

Bunclody…. 

Dromara, Co Down (though there was a proposal)

[Galteemore]

One of the intriguing ones is Portstewart, which had a tramway up until c1926 linking it to the NCC. When that closed, there was a a proposal to divert the Portrush branch to take in the town, which sadly never happened. 

[Mike 84C]

For a terminal station Harcourt street takes a bit of beating, turntable , cattle bank , engine facilities and a single platform. As does Kilarney with the backing out for a bit of operating interest!

[jhb171achill]

I've been in the National Archives lately in connection with several things I'm researching and it's amazing what proposed schemes one comes across. I mentioned the Collooney - west one the other day; this afternoon I found material relating to a proposed branch of (presumably) the Ulster Railway, which would have left the main line at Dunmurry and ended up in Dromara, Co Down!

Given the proximity of Dromore on the GNR to the west, and Ballynahinch on the BCDR to the east, and the absolute lack of any place of settlement beyond a few crossroads with a couple of cottages en route, this would seem one of the most utterly unrealistic ideas I've ever heard of - and given the proliferation of hare-brained railway proposals in the 19th century, that takes some doing!

Not to mention what would have been a very severe gradient at its southern end....

Edited March 14, 2022 by jhb171achill

[Mayner]

There were several narrow gauge Roadside Tramway and Light Railway schemes linking the villages and towns across the plains of North Galway and Central Roscommon to the Broad Gauge at Dromad, Roscommon and Woodlawn stations.

The Roscommon Central Light Railway (Dromad-Strokestown-Roscommon with a branch from Strokestown to Carrick on Shannon------The Longford and Strokestown Tramway-----The Roscommon and Mount Bellew Steam Tramway-----The Woodlawn, Mount Bellew and Mount Talbot Tramway.

The Roscommon Central promoters appear to have been serious the Light Railway application to the Privy Council failing on a technicality despite having appointed a contractor, Grand Jury support for a Baronial Guarantee.

Dromad-Roscommon-Mountbellew was incorporated in various Ulster  and Connaght Light Railway schemes for a continuous 3' gauge railway from Newry to Galway city and Connemara.

 

 

 

[David Holman]

9 hours ago, Lambeg man said:

Now - Omagh?

1900 - Ardara, Cushendall, Ballywalter, Kilkeel (Co. Down), Lisdoonvarna, Callan (Co. Kilkenny) or Passage East (Co. Waterford)? Is there a correct answer to this question David? If so, put us all out of our misery! LM

 

I'm afraid not. Was comparing my Irish  road atlas with my railway one (the Hajducki version) and wondering about towns like Belmullet and Louisburgh. Like as not, their populations would have been well below 5000 in 1900, though but for the famine and subsequent migration, it might have been a different picture.

 Comparing maps, it also throws up the question of why certain lines stopped where they did (money and/or geography no doubt). Ardara in particular, for having gone to the trouble of building the line to Glenties, why stop there instead of continuing on the the coast, just a few miles further on?

 Have long thought it would make a fine Donegal 'might have been'. There are also several isolated mineral railways that, in my world at least, offer the opportunity to outside connections, like the one between Bundoran and Sligo in the West and at Annalong in the east. That said, there are plenty of real places to play with too, of course.

[Mayner]

3 hours ago, David Holman said:

I'm afraid not. Was comparing my Irish  road atlas with my railway one (the Hajducki version) and wondering about towns like Belmullet and Louisburgh. Like as not, their populations would have been well below 5000 in 1900, though but for the famine and subsequent migration, it might have been a different picture.

 Comparing maps, it also throws up the question of why certain lines stopped where they did (money and/or geography no doubt). Ardara in particular, for having gone to the trouble of building the line to Glenties, why stop there instead of continuing on the the coast, just a few miles further on?

 

A lot was tied up with money & politics in particular the Irish Question or "killing Home Rule with kindness". The Balfour Government spent a lot of money in the 1890s building Light Railways and other Public Works in poorer areas to keep the Liberals and Irish Parliamentary Party out of Government.

The Glenties and Killybegs Branches appear to have been locally promoted lines largely financed by Government Grants with £1000 in Baronial Guaranteed capital. There appear to have been proposals to extend the Glenties branch line to Ardara into the 1920s it would have been difficult to raise the capital locally or justify further Government Grants particularly under a Liberal Government that had secured Irish Parliamentary Party support.

The WLWR line North of Tuam and GSWR "Kerry Branches" are further examples of railways funded by Government Grants

The Clifden and Burtonport Lines were definite Government schemes took as direct a route as possible through remote country to their destination and avoided coastal populated areas the actual "Congested Districts" the railways were intended to support.

In more prosperous inland counties railways were mainly financed by local capital sometimes with a Baronial Guarantee the 19th Century equivalent of a modern private public partnership where the ratepayers sometimes  guaranteed a 5% dividend on capital and were responsible for making up operational losses, which lead to a lot of ratepayer resentment towards companies like the Cavan & Leitrim where extensions to Rooskey and the Arigna mines were blocked by ratepayer opposition.

Another factor was that the railways were territorial, the GNR(I) Carrickmacross Branch blocked the MGWR extending northbound from Kingscourt to Armagh and potentially Cookstown and  over the BNCR to Portrush. The SLNCR existed as an independent railway (buffer state?) to allow the GNR to compete with the MGWR/GSR/CIE for traffic from Sligo and the West of Ireland without invading each others territory, one of the explanations for the gap in the rail system between Sligo & Bundoran.

In a lot of places the railways were content for drovers and carters to deliver to a railhead rather than finance or build a branch line, the MGWR had a depot and carter in Loughrea for many years before the local gentry raised the capital to build the Loughrea and Attymon Light Railway.

[David Holman]

Fascinating, thanks John.

 I guess the same sort of thing applies to the peninsula on the east side of Strangford Lough, down to Portaferry, or even to Strangford from Downpatrick on the other side. But then this was Belfast and County Down territory, not the wealthiest, one thinks.

Likewise Kilkeel, an obvious extension from Rostrevor. Would make a nice Dundalk, Greenore and Newry model, stocked with LNWR locos and coaches, of course.

[jhb171achill]

Well, there’s another. There was once a proposal to build a narrow gauge line from, I presume, Newtownards, down the Ards peninsula….

[Sean]

heres another one to throw into the mix. my previous layout. this is actually using the same baseboard as my current layout although one panel was removed to bring the length down.

the last siding isnt finished in the first pic hence the second one to show it completed.

 

this was to be a micro layout in that it was only 45cm wide. unfortunately i went a bit overboard and it ended up being 240cm long, mostly defeating any advantage gained by the micro size, the tight curves did present some technical issues with coupling also which i was never 100% happy with.

 

deserves a mention however as the track plan is nearly identical to gorey on one of the old OS maps albeit with one less platform and shortened sidings. it was a very functional station with 2 loops and 3 sidings, and could handle decent sized trains once you stayed within loose goods era.  was interesting visiting the station and being able to approximate where the old goods sidings were and seeing how they could have been accessed. a lot of the old trackwork looks to have survived right up to the IR period with the exception of the 2 sidings nearest the station so era wise things could be quite flexible on this one until the operator decides on a theme. the track plan itself leaves potential to have 4-5 consists on the layout at any one time, but lack of any type of fiddle yard in the design made this impractical, hence why a smaller scale may be desirable.

 

definitely worth revisiting at some point in a smaller scale or with a wider board for proper radius curves and an actual fiddle yard.

[Sean]

On 14/3/2022 at 8:54 PM, jhb171achill said:

Indeed. If I were to do that in my "era" (1950s-1970), I would probably use a J15 or a "G" class and shunt a few trucks even if there wasn't even room for a terminus.

However, as late as 1990, it would be fairly credible to have some sort of small freight terminal handling fertiliser and cement, for example - possibly a fictitious place that would have started life in 1890-something as a similar type of place top Westport Quay, all operated with a Murphy 141. 

Nice plan you have above there!

initially my interest was intermodal with short 2-3 wagon liners as would have been seen around nenagh with guinness tacked on also.

figured i would then expand things with pallet cement and beet(given my geography).. to that effect a JCB and a large hyster would be needed.

 

my earliest memory of a train is an absolutely FILTHY 121+141 header with beet doubles coming accross the raised railway bridges as it came out of the gorey station. I am not a million miles from being able to recreate that train now in model form 20-30 years later, just need to acquire some beets. I bring this up because that train has always stuck in my mind, which means it probabaly left me fascinated and so the railway journey began, so to speak.

 

loco roster is 141, 121, and an A class, given the fuel point where it is, we could see any of these prime movers turning up at one one time for fuelling,  121 is to be the sort of "pilot" taking care of any inwards fuel trains and of course pilot duties(of which i have already identified a couple if a longer train happens to serve the yard, otherwise its off site or on the fuelling siding, which can double up as the loco display siding when not being used for fuel.

 

the return fuel train is always tacked on to the back of the next available liner, which means a pretty large train ends up leaving the layout given its small size. the same can sometimes happen with cement, or a 4w flat with guinness, but its not an every day thing.

 

then it kind of dawned on me that there could be a lot more versatility as a side effect of having these selected industries as anything that is pallet or jcb loaded could plausibly visit the layout at any given time.

 

this actually brings up one additional topic in my mind, its a seperate topic of which i am going to start a thread on soon. but station design. its intended to be an IR era layout, with a similarly decorated station, however if one were to construct a cie styled station then it may allow some elasticity within the tropes of era to allow for running of earlier trains ie supertrain era with loose coupled goods. it would still be possible to run IR era stuff on the layout if one argued that it is set right around 1987 during the crossover period and therefore whilst the locos are freshly painted the station has not been suitably refreshed with IR signage just yet. in essence the layout could easily fit different eras which would overall be dictated by the operators available rolling stock for a given session. the vehicles placed around the layout would also have a similar sort of effect on the overall theme.

 

 

 

[jhb171achill]

15 minutes ago, Sean said:

...........station design. its intended to be an IR era layout, with a similarly decorated station, however if one were to construct a cie styled station then it may allow some elasticity within the tropes of era to allow for running of earlier trains ie supertrain era with loose coupled goods. it would still be possible to run IR era stuff on the layout if one argued that it is set right around 1987 during the crossover period and therefore whilst the locos are freshly painted the station has not been suitably refreshed with IR signage just yet. in essence the layout could easily fit different eras............

Excellent concept; flexibility without compromising an accurate "look". Just what i'm trying to recreate, albeit in a period about twenty five years earlier.

[David Holman]

Very much agree, especially as I now have stock to cover two eras, 1900s & 1950s, on my projects. Seems that on both sides of the water, infrastructure didn't change much over the years until more recent modernisation. Over here though a repaint was often the precursor to closure on many branch line stations.

 

[StevieB]

I think it was the same over there. Carry out some kind of ‘improvement’ as a precursor to closure. Let’s not forget that both countries had doctors, in the non-medical sense, running their railways!

Stephen

[Angus]

Yep, fiddling the books, do a load of "maintenence" and it increases the operational costs. The branch then can shown to be making heavy losses. 

The other tactic was to change the times of trains so they didn't suit commuters and didn't meet onward connection thus reducing receipts. 

Edited March 17, 2022 by Angus

[Mayner]

15 hours ago, StevieB said:

I think it was the same over there. Carry out some kind of ‘improvement’ as a precursor to closure. Let’s not forget that both countries had doctors, in the non-medical sense, running their railways!

Stephen

The West Cork and West Clare and other Tod Andrews closures appears to have been based on projections that CIE would loose less money, or possibly make a profit (in terms of operating and capital costs) if the passenger and goods traffic was transferred from rail to CIE road passenger and freight services.

The 'improvements' tended to be more Bureaucracy and Incompetence with the left hand not knowing what the right hand was doing rather than cooking the books. The Policy Makers that decided on closure or a change in operating policy failing to inform Way and Works or Mechanical Engineering of a decision.

Good examples were CIE ordering the G611 Class and the Western Region ordering the Class 14 "Teddy Bear" locomotives for Branch Line & Trip Working when they were largely redundant with Branch Line closures and changes in freight operation in both Ireland and the UK.

In a lot of cases the work or project was already budgeted for a particular project and could not be used for a more relevant alternate project, very much a case spend it or loose it and keep staff employed until they could be re-deployed, retired or became eligible for redundancy. Sometimes it was cheaper to keep someone on the books (doing nothing) until they retired if they were unwilling to voluntary transfer to another role than offer and pay redundancy, during the 1980s my father (a fitter) was refused redundancy because of his long service while younger staff and some of his apprentices were offered and took redundancy.

I ran into the same problem as a Head of Department on a UK Heritage railway although less than a mile long we had the same management structures and siloed mentality as British Rail.

Some "improvements" such as the 'relaying' of parts of the Burma Road, Youghal Branch and other lines was actually the P.W. Department replacing good quality rail and track panels with worn material before closure for use on other lines, for many years CIEs track maintenance on secondary lines was based on patching using material cascaded from the mainlines and recovered from branches/closed lines.

The Mechanical Engineers Departments tend to do the same using stocked locos and rolling stock as a source of spare parts before they are officially withdrawn and scrapped, hence long lines of stopped 001s at Inchacore, redundant 4w wagons at North Wall and long lines of stopped Class 31 Locos at Totton before they were actually withdrawn

[Mike 84C]

Went by Toton Sidings this week, still long lines of stored loco's. Going too fast to see what they were, SWIMBO  driving!

[Mayner]

I did some planning on a North Kerry themed layout several years ago, inspired by an New Irish Lines article on Barnagh and to see if it was feasible to fit in an American style "Walk Around' layout in our recently renovated garage.

The line had the usual 3 passengers and a goods with a Limerick-Abbeyfeale passenger working up to the late 30s/early 40s with 1 passenger and goods in CIE days the passenger ceased in 1963 the Listowel-Ballingarne Junction closing completely in November 75, a Tralee- Listowel Goods and beet from Abbeydorney to Tuam via Tralee lingered on for a few years longer.

Although closed to passenger traffic in 63 Passenger trains regularly operated over the line with Tralee Race Specials, GAA, Knock and School excursions and even as a diversionary route for the South Kerry until 1974.

Part of the exercise was to see what could be achieved in N, OO and 21mm gauge with a similar layout theme in an identical space.

My most successful layouts have been in N Gauge mainly because its feasible to build a layout with better operation potential than a OO or larger scale layout in a similar space. P

North Kerry in N Barnagh-Abbeydorney

The layout features a central peninsula with Abbeyfeale and Listowel stations on opposite sides of a central view blocker/backscene.

Staging tracks are on the hidden section between Barnagh Tunnel and the Tralee end of Abbeydorney. 

The line climbed steeply from Newcastle West to the summit at Barnagh then descended gently towards Abbeyfeal and Listowel before undulating to Tralee 

The siding/loop at Barnagh may have been used for crossing or re-combining goods trains that exceeded the load limit on the grade from Newcastle West to Barnagh. I successfully used similar "Surround Staging" on American N gauge layouts in Ireland and in New Zealand before our move to our present home.

The main focus of the layout is goods train operation with Two Crews working the up and down daily goods trains to the crossing point at Listowel or Abbeydorney before changing locos and returning home. Crews of cattle specials would work through to Limerick or Mallow or possibly through to Dublin or Waterford Ports. 

 

North Kerry in OO Barnagh to Abbeyfeale

I just about fitted in the peninsula for the OO version with Barnagh and Devon Road as intermediate Halts.

Siting Abbeyfeale beside the staging fits in with American practice of placing a main yard/station close to rather than equidistant from staging on a continuous run layout.

Due to the grade West bound goods traffic tended to accumulate at Newcastle West until there was enough traffic to justify sending a loco from Limerick, though its possible that wagons were attached to the rear of the Limerick-Abbeyfeale passenger. In WLWR & GSWR days the "Mail Trains" carried van traffic attached at the rear, a possible reason for the unusual double loop arrangement in the goods yards at both Abbeyfeale and Listowel.

Patrickswell North Kerry in 21mm gauge.

I was largely restricted to a single station and staging yard because of the larger minimum radius and the longer points (more prototypical switch and crossing angles) required for 21mm gauge and chose Patrickswell because of its attractive setting simple track layout and appearance of double track with the North Kerry and Croom Lines parallel West of the station.

The North Kerry and the Croom Branch split into two separate single lines at the crossover at the Limerick end of the platform, the lightly drawn crossover and siding were removed at some stage before closure. 

A section of the Croom line was retained as a siding for crossing trains after the 1967 closure of the branch until the cabin was closed in 1983.

Apparently at one stage the Waterford and Limerick attempted to force the GSWR to double the line from Patrickswell to handle Cork Limerick Direct Railway Traffic, the GSWR routed its Dublin-Limerick goods traffic via Charleville Junction and Patrickswell before absorbing the WLWR.

Needless to say nothing has become of these plans, though I am planning to replace the present roller shutter garage door with a wall and conventional doorway at some stage this year, my garage is largely a workshop than a model railway or layout room.

[Sean]

emergency alterations to the track plan must be proposed after another disastrous running session with this design.

 

It is fairly well documented that if you put a curve directly after a hornby point, theres a good chance that a full train load of rolling stock wont be able to get over it without incident, a fact largely ignored within this design. I had intended to go all peco with the pointwork, alas the one peco point in this plan is also suffering the same issue so i dont know how much of a difference such an upgrade would make in my case.

 

for the most part the pointwork is okay but to access the middle siding its literally a snake way of turnouts. what im noticing is that the narrow modern couplings seem to nearly always bind up momentarily  when going through this trio of points,  seems to effect most of my rolling stock wether its 4w or bogie based, so enough is enough, 

 

decided this is what im going to do,  experimented with making the loop larger but unfortunately that would sacrifice the turntable road and i will also have to go cutting new track to size, so for handiness sake this is the only real option to get things running smoothly.

 

is the cross over more of less prototypical? it should be more reliable in the long run so it must stay for practicality sake, plus i already own the crossover so  theres no expense involved. does it all alter the "irishness" of the track plan all that much? my gorey layout DID have somthing similar enough.

 

Edited March 20, 2022 by Sean

[David Holman]

20 hours ago, Mayner said:

I did some planning on a North Kerry themed layout several years ago, inspired by an New Irish Lines article on Barnagh and to see if it was feasible to fit in an American style "Walk Around' layout in our recently renovated garage.

The line had the usual 3 passengers and a goods with a Limerick-Abbeyfeale passenger working up to the late 30s/early 40s with 1 passenger and goods in CIE days the passenger ceased in 1963 the Listowel-Ballingarne Junction closing completely in November 75, a Tralee- Listowel Goods and beet from Abbeydorney to Tuam via Tralee lingered on for a few years longer.

Although closed to passenger traffic in 63 Passenger trains regularly operated over the line with Tralee Race Specials, GAA, Knock and School excursions and even as a diversionary route for the South Kerry until 1974.

Part of the exercise was to see what could be achieved in N, OO and 21mm gauge with a similar layout theme in an identical space.

My most successful layouts have been in N Gauge mainly because its feasible to build a layout with better operation potential than a OO or larger scale layout in a similar space. P

North Kerry in N Barnagh-Abbeydorney

The layout features a central peninsula with Abbeyfeale and Listowel stations on opposite sides of a central view blocker/backscene.

Staging tracks are on the hidden section between Barnagh Tunnel and the Tralee end of Abbeydorney. 

The line climbed steeply from Newcastle West to the summit at Barnagh then descended gently towards Abbeyfeal and Listowel before undulating to Tralee 

The siding/loop at Barnagh may have been used for crossing or re-combining goods trains that exceeded the load limit on the grade from Newcastle West to Barnagh. I successfully used similar "Surround Staging" on American N gauge layouts in Ireland and in New Zealand before our move to our present home.

The main focus of the layout is goods train operation with Two Crews working the up and down daily goods trains to the crossing point at Listowel or Abbeydorney before changing locos and returning home. Crews of cattle specials would work through to Limerick or Mallow or possibly through to Dublin or Waterford Ports. 

 

North Kerry in OO Barnagh to Abbeyfeale

I just about fitted in the peninsula for the OO version with Barnagh and Devon Road as intermediate Halts.

Siting Abbeyfeale beside the staging fits in with American practice of placing a main yard/station close to rather than equidistant from staging on a continuous run layout.

Due to the grade West bound goods traffic tended to accumulate at Newcastle West until there was enough traffic to justify sending a loco from Limerick, though its possible that wagons were attached to the rear of the Limerick-Abbeyfeale passenger. In WLWR & GSWR days the "Mail Trains" carried van traffic attached at the rear, a possible reason for the unusual double loop arrangement in the goods yards at both Abbeyfeale and Listowel.

Patrickswell North Kerry in 21mm gauge.

I was largely restricted to a single station and staging yard because of the larger minimum radius and the longer points (more prototypical switch and crossing angles) required for 21mm gauge and chose Patrickswell because of its attractive setting simple track layout and appearance of double track with the North Kerry and Croom Lines parallel West of the station.

The North Kerry and the Croom Branch split into two separate single lines at the crossover at the Limerick end of the platform, the lightly drawn crossover and siding were removed at some stage before closure. 

A section of the Croom line was retained as a siding for crossing trains after the 1967 closure of the branch until the cabin was closed in 1983.

Apparently at one stage the Waterford and Limerick attempted to force the GSWR to double the line from Patrickswell to handle Cork Limerick Direct Railway Traffic, the GSWR routed its Dublin-Limerick goods traffic via Charleville Junction and Patrickswell before absorbing the WLWR.

Needless to say nothing has become of these plans, though I am planning to replace the present roller shutter garage door with a wall and conventional doorway at some stage this year, my garage is largely a workshop than a model railway or layout room.

Love the American walk around concept, but all too often there isn't the space this side of the pond. That said, the Rev Edward Beal once wrote that he didn't think 20x20 feet was particularly large as a layout room - his house had several that size! Something to do with living in a rambling Edwardian or Victorian vicarage no doubt.

 He had some interesting ideas for the time though - must dig out a few.

[Mayner]

2 hours ago, David Holman said:

Love the American walk around concept, but all too often there isn't the space this side of the pond. That said, the Rev Edward Beal once wrote that he didn't think 20x20 feet was particularly large as a layout room - his house had several that size! Something to do with living in a rambling Edwardian or Victorian vicarage no doubt.

 He had some interesting ideas for the time though - must dig out a few.

Walk around layouts tend to be more achievable in this part of the World the traditional suburban home was on a ¼acre section with room for a double garage, workshop or railway room, while despite intensification more modern homes tend to have an integral double garage. Our first home had a 24X14 garage I originally planned to build an On30 Colorado Narrow gauge layout with the Orphir Loop  https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll21/id/14496as a center piece but quickly downsized to N because it I would have needed twice the space to make it work in O Scale, I never completed the N because of a house move but still have most of the track and stock as it may come in useful if we have to move home or downsize.

The Peninsula featured open top L Girder baseboard with stringers and risers.

Even getting as far as a mock up for the Geared Logging Locomotives

We placed MDF as a temporary road bed to test the stock on the Loop 

The shortie On30 Bachmann stock tended to look unconvincing and dominate the scene, the loco was produced by Broadway Limited a plain but reasonably close to scale model apart from the gauge!  a Sn3 or HOn3 (smaller in scale) layout would have worked well in the available in space but would have cost a fortune compared to Bachmann.

A year later the N Gauge is running on temporary track on the peninsula.

The layout is actually in operation at this stage with a mixture of permanent and temporary track. The main running line was developed into a Dumbell arrangement in a similar manner to the N Scale North Kerry concept with hidden trackage and staging behind the scenic break and elevators which linked up with the track on the peninsula to provide a continuous run, I managed to complete most of the hidden trackage before receiving a job offer that lead to a move to another town and from N to G and later 1:20.3 Scale American narrow gauge.

Most of the baseboard material went into the garage/workshop in our new home and should be adequately seasoned after nearly 15 years!