Alan's Workbench

[Tullygrainey]

Like most of us I imagine, I have a head full of ideas and potential projects, most of which will never get beyond the daydream stage. Some will though and this thread will be the sounding board for those that do, all being well.

So, first up... Now that BCDR Diesel No. 2 is more or less signed off (the fitters are still arguing about how best to rig the brakes), my attention has been drawn to another County Down engine. This one...

 

No. 29, an 0-6-4 tank locomotive, was delivered from Beyer Peacock in 1923 and spent most of its career shunting the Belfast harbour lines on the BCDR's side of the river. It lasted long enough to be renumbered 229 by the UTA and was withdrawn around 1955. As far as I know, it was the only loco in the County Down fleet ever to have this fairly unusual wheel arrangement.

As yet, this project has only just passed the daydream stage because all that exists are these..

 

 

.. a set of coupling rods made to the wheelbase dimensions recorded in Desmond Coakham's BCDR book (Colourpoint, 2010) using a universal rods etch (4M92) from Alan Gibson. I made a jig from single-sided printed circuit board with short lengths of 1mm brass rod soldered in.

 

 

 

So far, so good but a very long way to go yet! If anyone knows of a source of drawings for this one, I'd be grateful. 

Cheers

Alan

 

 

 

[Galteemore]

Excellent Alan. Science Museum in Manchester holds the BP archives. They may well have a GA for this. It’s one of my own favourites, givens its strong likeness to the SLNC tanks. Much of the plate work seems very similar, although interestingly the County Down went for rounded off tanks rather than the simple SLNC rectangles! Probably a cost factor….

[David Holman]

Looks quite a nice loco for scratchbuilding - straight footplate, no splashers, plenty of room to hide the motor, not even many rivets. Handsome too, so definitely needs building! After the complexities of the BC diesel should be fun!

[Horsetan]

19 hours ago, Galteemore said:

Excellent Alan. Science Museum in Manchester holds the BP archives. They may well have a GA for this. .....

Manchester (MMSI as was) is a bit erratic when it comes to retrieving drawings. Their website has gone through so many changes over the last 7 years that it's virtually impossible to find what you want because the website is geared towards the general public, i.e. content-heavy, yet knowledge-lite.

When I was trying to help Graham Nicholas with his kit design for the ex-Great Central "B7" 4-6-0, Manchester were able to find the full-fat GA on request. I think they charged me about £80 for a digital copy.

I knew also that they had a similar drawing for the "B3" 4-6-0 because it had been published in a book about Great Central locomotives  but, when I requested a copy, they were unable to find the drawing. Likewise, they also have a drawing for the GNR(I) S2 4-4-0, but they were unable to find that one as well - strange, given that it was previously available via their archive website.

[Galteemore]

Yes it’s a bit hit and miss but some gems amidst the straw….

[Mayner]

It might be worthwhile contacting the Ulster Transport Museum.

An Outline diagram of the 0-6-4T is listed as Diagram/Sheet 9 in a 1990s Ulster Folk and Transport Museum list of BCDR Loco drawings. 

 

[Tullygrainey]

Thanks everyone. That's helpful. I've had a look at Manchester Science Museum website but found I was going round in circles a bit. There may be something there - there's definitely an index of drawings for the right period.  I'll give Cultra a try too.

Regards, Alan

[Horsetan]

11 minutes ago, Tullygrainey said:

.... I've had a look at Manchester Science Museum website but found I was going round in circles a bit....

They've designed the website to not give you what you want.

[Tullygrainey]

1 minute ago, Horsetan said:

They've designed the website to not give you what you want.

It felt a bit that way

[Irishswissernie]

I have a couple of 229 views on flickr in the B&CDR album.

 

[Tullygrainey]

23 minutes ago, Irishswissernie said:

I have a couple of 229 views on flickr in the B&CDR album.

 

Many thanks. I came across those yesterday while browsing. They'll be very useful.

[David Holman]

Had to check, because I thought it was one of the Sligo Large Tanks! Then I looked at the cab...

 Quite a lot more rivets than I first thought too, but then it's Beyer Peacock and easy to see the family resemblance to the Sligo locos. Where does it for in the overall time line?

[Tullygrainey]

 

16 hours ago, David Holman said:

easy to see the family resemblance to the Sligo locos. Where does it for in the overall time line?

From what I've read, Number 29 was ordered from Beyer Peacock in 1922 and delivered to the BCDR in September 1923. By 1950, the Ulster Transport Authority was the custodian. They renumbered it 229 and it was finally withdrawn in June 1956.

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, Tullygrainey said:

 

From what I've read, Number 29 was ordered from Beyer Peacock in 1922 and delivered to the BCDR in September 1923. By 1950, the Ulster Transport Authority was the custodian. They renumbered it 229 and it was finally withdrawn in June 1956.

A very short life (34 years) for a steam locomotive...... Many were in traffic well over their century.......

On a related note, in 1980 I witnessed a 101-year-old, 1879-built, tall-chimneyed, wood-burning 2.4.0 tender engine in Indonesia, setting out on its once-a-fortnight local working. Near where it was based was an ultra-modern military aircraft facility with the very latest in technology all over the place. The trip working this loco was employed on was to bring up-to-date modern tank wagons of aircraft fuel along one of Indonesia's principal main lines as far as a long siding off the main line into the military base. If ever there was a railway vehicle which looked out of place, this was it. Its other duty was a once-a-day branch mixed working which it or one of its sisters worked. When steam ended in Indonesia (other than sugar mills) in 1987, there were still two of these elderly machines being occasionally used for shunting in their home base (Madiun).

These were the famous B50 class (google 'em). A friend of Provincial Wagons' - Lance King - was an authority on these locos and was very familiar with the area. I still have set of his excellent and comprehensive "Continental Railway Journal" - a monthly magazine which documented the gradual wind-down of steam worldwide in the 1970s, 80s and 90s; no longer in publication as there's no longer anything to report. I owe the late Mr King a massive debt of gratitude for the comprehensive and detailed cover of such matters; it was the CRJ that had me chasing remaining steam from 1977 onwards, all over India, the far east including Indonesia, Africa and South America during those times. Sometimes I'd strike gold; other times I would arrive somewhere to find that what I had travelled 13,000 miles to see - e..g the world's last functioning urban steam street tramway - had quietly succumbed only weeks earlier, with locals now living in the carriages and station buildings, sans doors, parked just where they ended up.

Maybe, somewhere deep down in Kerry, there's still a J15 whose sole duty is to push an ICR set once a week in and out of a valeting shed........

I digress; back to the BCDR, a fascinating railway itself.

[Tullygrainey]

38 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

Maybe, somewhere deep down in Kerry, there's still a J15 whose sole duty is to push an ICR set once a week in and out of a valeting shed........

[Tullygrainey]

I had a very prompt response to my email request to the Ulster Transport Museum but unfortunately, they weren't able to turn up anything in their archive relating to BCDR 0-6-4T Number 29. 

However, having already made the rods, I'm going to push on with a chassis anyway. Who knows what we'll end up with. It'll be fun ( won't it?). 

I'm using a High Level Loadhauler gearbox. I think these little devices are hard to beat. The motor also came from HL.

 

The chassis frames are in 0.015" nickel silver, cut and shaped as a pair then separated. The rods were used to mark out the axle spacing. Spot the deliberate mistake - the bits that had to be let in thanks to cack-handed cutting out in the first place 

One fixed driven axle and compensation on the other two, using hornblocks and a beam. Hornblocks and sliding bearings are MJT, from Dart Castings.

I've never built anything with a bogie before so we'll see how that goes 

Travelling hopefully,

Alan

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2023 by Tullygrainey
missing image

[David Holman]

Those High Level gearboxes are an absolute joy. Great to see some traditional modelling skills too.

[Tullygrainey]

My usual method for making a compensation beam for the 2 floating axles on a six-coupled chassis is to use a length of  0.7mm or 1mm brass rod soldered at right angles to a tube rotating between the frames on another, fixed, brass rod, thus:

The beam is soldered onto the pivot tube after the horn blocks and wheels have been fitted and is then fettled (a polite term for ‘bent with pliers and swearing’) so that it makes contact with both axles and the chassis sits level. This last bit can be a bit of a trial, especially if the beam is hard to get at, thanks to frame spacers getting in the way.

For this chassis, I’m trying the method more often found in etched kits, that is, a beam cut from nickel silver sheet like this:

 

The challenge is to get the pivot in the right place so the beam is in contact with both axles because once made, the beam can’t be bent like the brass rod, no matter how much you swear at it.

 

This is the method I used. It needs to be done after the frame pair has been shaped and the axle holes have been pilot-drilled but before the horn block cutouts are done or the 2 frames separated.

1. Cut and shape a beam from 2 layers of 0.015” nickel silver sheet soldered together. The shape isn't critical but it needs to be long enough to bridge the two floating axles. Establish the centre point and drill a 1mm pivot hole.

2. Ream out the axle holes on the frames to be a tight fit on 2 axles (not bearings), 1/8th inch diameter in this case.

3. Insert two axles into the holes and rest the beam across them so that it makes contact with both. Hold or clamp it in place.

4. Using a 1mm drill, drill through the beam’s pivot hole into the frames.

 

The holes thus drilled in the frames will locate the pivoting cross tube in the right place when the frames are assembled. The beam will make contact with both axles and the chassis will sit level. Yeh!

 

Assembling all these bits is next. Getting it all straight is always bit of a challenge. I anticipate more swearing...

Alan

 

If at first you don't succeed, use a bigger hammer

 

 

 

 

Edited April 4, 2023 by Tullygrainey

[Tullygrainey]

No. 29's chassis is now assembled. it needed a fair bit of adjustment to the spacers to get it sitting straight and level, working on a glass plate. The frames are long on this one and a bit too floppy for comfort. They might have been better made in beefier plate. However, now the spacers are in, it's rigid enough, I think.

I used my Poppy Woodtech chassis jig for the first time to fit the hornblocks, using the fixed rear axle bearings as the datum and working forwards, one axle at a time. Was all thumbs with it at first but once I'd got the hang of it (that is, read the instructions), it worked a treat. The long axles help minimise the errors. Some pretty sloppy soldering around those hornblocks. It was tidied up later, honest.

 

Compensation beam fitted with its pivot tube...

 

...and slotted into place in the chassis. The 1mm brass wire it pivots on is soldered to the chassis at one end, being careful not to solder the whole thing up solid.

 

Gearbox and wheels next and I'm still pondering how best to mount the rear bogie. I have a plan. (cunning? Not sure, yet) 

Alan

 

[Patrick Davey]

Fantastic Alan!  Will you be going for BCDR or UTA livery?

[Tullygrainey]

Probably BCDR Patrick but who knows. If we ever make it to the painting stage, that'll be the time to decide 

[Tullygrainey]

 A bit more progress with Number 29. Some nice wheels from Alan Gibson...

 

Then, some paint on the frames, gearbox in, wheels on and quartered using my trusty G.W. Models wheel press and quartering jig. A great little device that takes some of the agony out of a tricky job. Wouldn't be without it now.

 

Rods held on temporarily with bits of wire insulation. We have a chassis that rolls under finger power without any tight spots. That's a relief!

 

Motor in and under power, it shuffles along very nicely. 

 

 

Now, about that bogie....

Still travelling hopefully,

Alan

 

 

[Galteemore]

Wonderful. Once you get a rolling chassis, the rest is comparatively straightforward

[Tullygrainey]

17 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

Wonderful. Once you get a rolling chassis, the rest is comparatively straightforward

So I keep telling myself 

[David Holman]

Neat soldering too, I still tend to rely on careful cleaning up!

[Tullygrainey]

14 hours ago, David Holman said:

Neat soldering too, I still tend to rely on careful cleaning up!

There's a fair bit of that around here too! I seem to get through a lot of fibreglass pencils 

[Tullygrainey]

After a succession of one step forward, two back and some quite frankly grumpy behaviour, I’ve got this far.

There was the adventure with the crankpins that unscrewed themselves and fouled the chassis, meaning the wheels had to come off again. Then there were a number of failed attempts to devise pickups. Not to mention the stutter which had no obvious cause. There was a point when the big hammer almost came into play before sense prevailed and I realised it was way past my bedtime, it is after all only a hobby and these things are better deferred until after at least one breakfast. Anyway, it runs tolerably well now.

From what I’ve read, there are two main approaches to mounting bogies. The late Iain Rice, whose published guidance I have consistently relied on, favoured a pivoted arm, sideways control and even on occasion, compensation beams. Guy Williams, the other scratch-building guru, advised a central pivot in a slot below axle level, plenty of weight in the bogie and leaving it to take care of itself. The latter sounded easier (it wasn’t) but that’s what I ended up doing.

My bogie has a central frame - an open topped box with a slot in the bottom to allow swivelling and sideways movement. It’s also full of lead. The side frames which carry the wheels are pivoted midway between the axles so the wheels can ride the bumps (what do you mean, your track doesn’t have any bumps?).

The whole device is mounted on a vertical shaft attached to the chassis. This has a soldered washer above and a plate below the bogie frame to control up and down movement and stop it tilting. It’s taken a fair bit of to-ing and fro-ing but it seems to work ok and hasn’t shown any tendency to derail so far.

 

I’m going to lie down now....

Alan

[Noel]

Impressive engineering

[David Holman]

I feel your pain!

Looks very good to me, Alan and is similar to the system used on the North Star Swilly small tank kits, though being 7mm, they use side control springs (think they are the same as used in plunger pickups, so tiny), plus a bigger spring on the vertical pivot. The system works well and have since replicated it on my Large Tank and the D16. Wouldn't want to try it on 4mm though...

 Really fine work.

[Patrick Davey]

Fascinating photographic record Alan, and well done for getting to this stage!  Won't be long before No. 29 graces the stage at Loughan Quay.

[Tullygrainey]

We have a footplate. 15 thou brass with a double thickness for the buffer beams. Valances are 1.5mm x 1.5mm brass angle. 

The next stages will involve curves 

Onward and upward (hopefully)

Alan

 

[David Holman]

Fab. Wish I'd remembered to label my E class F and R. Would have saved me having to unsolder the bunker...

 The simple ideas are the best. Nice rolling road too.

[jhb171achill]

13 minutes ago, David Holman said:

 

 

On 17/4/2023 at 9:01 PM, Tullygrainey said:

After a succession of one step forward, two back and some quite frankly grumpy behaviour, I’ve got this far.

One of the components is not called a "crank" pin for nothing.................

[Tullygrainey]

Have had to make some adjustments to the running plate since the last post. The captive nut at the front was in the wrong place and had to go - it would’ve been visible in front of the smokebox. Furthermore, the whole thing had somehow become 3mm too long. 
 

I’ve ordered a new ruler. 

[Patrick Davey]

35 minutes ago, Tullygrainey said:

Have had to make some adjustments to the running plate since the last post. The captive nut at the front was in the wrong place and had to go - it would’ve been visible in front of the smokebox. Furthermore, the whole thing had somehow become 3mm too long. 
 

I’ve ordered a new ruler. 

I had a pencil like that one time, it would never spell correctly…….