Galway-Claremorris

[skinner75]

Came across this today - may be no more than wishful thinking, but still

https://www.galwaybeo.ie/news/galway-news/closed-irish-rail-line-track-8448347

[leslie10646]

Thanks for bringing this up Skinner. Speaking as an enthusiast, of course it would be good, but the practical part of me asks - "Is there a dual carriageway road paralleling the route?" If so, where is the traffic?

[DoctorPan]

9 minutes ago, leslie10646 said:

Thanks for bringing this up Skinner. Speaking as an enthusiast, of course it would be good, but the practical part of me asks - "Is there a dual carriageway road paralleling the route?" If so, where is the traffic?

Speaking with the day job's cap on, there's is a potential set of traffic flows that could open up with that section opening up in conjuction with what is being done further south with Foynes. Dublin Port is growing busier and with the reopening of Foynes, Ballina liners could be diverted down the WRC and down to Foynes, saving paths on the congresed Port- Athlone section and having to run around on the mainline at Kildare for Waterford liners. 

 

Again highly dependant on IWT and XPT switching ports to Foynes but who knows...

[Broithe]

With any potential project like this, you either do it too early or too late, there is either not enough traffic or not enough capacity, according to the general observers.

I can remember the opinion that I often heard about the LUAS, before it started running, there was a widespread opinion that it was a pointless vanity project that would be so little used that it would become a financial liability.

Etc.

[MOGUL]

2 hours ago, DoctorPan said:

Speaking with the day job's cap on, there's is a potential set of traffic flows that could open up with that section opening up in conjuction with what is being done further south with Foynes. Dublin Port is growing busier and with the reopening of Foynes, Ballina liners could be diverted down the WRC and down to Foynes, saving paths on the congresed Port- Athlone section and having to run around on the mainline at Kildare for Waterford liners. 

 

Again highly dependant on IWT and XPT switching ports to Foynes but who knows...

Very hard to see Foynes going back into handling containers, it's in the wrong place and doesn't have a big enough market to justify regular calls from a container vessel.. It was tried back in the early 2000s with parts for DELL in Limerick as the base load and didn't work out.. Even less likely to work out now that DELL is gone..

If anything we have too many ports handling containers, with Waterford suffering from it's proximity to Dublin and Cork, and recently Rosslare also now that it handles containers and has a regular service to/from Belgium which Waterford lacks(big missed opportunity for them).. 

To be honest, doubling all the way from Galway to Portarlington and from Kildare to Athy or even Carlow should happen before any more of the WRC gets built.. 

 

 

 

[Darrman]

The railway enthusiast in me is naturally in favour: last time I took a train to Westport from Cork involved changing from an intercity to a commuter train at Portlaoise before waiting quite a while at Portarlington for a connecting train, plus it's that bit more track to cover. But Cork-Westport isn't really a journey that would be made often, so time to take a look at things more rationally.

Galway-Westport appears to be the most sensible service for this section, in my (rather uneducated, admittedly) opinion. I can't see the current Limerick-Galway trains being adjusted to skip Galway and head straight for Claremorris, but maybe one or two trains might run from Limerick to Westport. Tuam is the only town of note. Milltown and Ballindine are smaller than Ardrahan and Ballyglunin doesn't even have a Wikipedia article, meaning those stations probably won't reopen. According to Google Tuam is about a 40 minute drive from Galway, so the railway would have to be at least that fast to have any real chance. Timings vary: the 6:25 Galway-Dublin reaches Athenry in 16 minutes, while on the other extreme the 17:50 Galway-Limerick is allowed 29 minutes (with a stop at Oranmore). About 20 minutes is the usual, with a minute or two off whenever Oranmore is skipped. Athenry is 13 miles distant from Galway, while Tuam is about 16 1/4 miles further away. Reaching Tuam in 40 minutes doesn't seem impossible, but doubling Galway-Athenry would be a must to improve frequency and cut journey times. Easing congestion here would also help Limerick- and Dublin-Galway services. (I've heard talk about a loop being built in Oranmore, which is a start.)

Beyond Tuam, Claremorris is 1:05 by road and another 17 miles by rail: if Tuam is doable in 40 Claremorris should be doable in an hour, but as far as I know beyond Tuam the line's littered with level crossings, which would pose a problem. If continuing to Westport, the 26 1/4 miles are scheduled to be done in 37 minutes: an overall time of ~1:40 is well behind the 1:20 Google quotes when driving from Westport to Galway. I won't factor Ballina timings in here but if Manulla is to be called at a Ballina shuttle should be waiting: if the frequency requires it a passing loop should be built on the line at Foxford.

These rough estimates assume a service pattern of Galway - Athenry - Tuam - Claremorris - Manulla J - Castlebar - Westport. A useful point of comparison would be the historical WTT and/or service pattern: if anyone knows, I'd be interested.

[226 Abhann na Suire]

On 18/5/2023 at 11:29 AM, skinner75 said:

Came across this today - may be no more than wishful thinking, but still

https://www.galwaybeo.ie/news/galway-news/closed-irish-rail-line-track-8448347

I think Galway/Athenry to Tuam/Claremorris/Westport has great potential opportunity as a railway, maybe not as good as other projects in the country which should get priority, like some of the capacity improvements mentioned already, but I personally think the reopening of the line further from Claremorris to Collooney and Sligo is just nonsense. 
 

The trackbed is much too overgrown and even completely built upon by towns in many areas and the work required to bring it back into use would wayyyyy outweigh the benefits it would have when in use. Yes railways are the way forward, but there’s no point in trying to bring a small number of passengers from a very rural line back to rail when they have a perfect good road already. The amount of people using the line would, I imagine, be very low. 
 

While I appreciate the amazing work that West on Track are doing for this part of our country, I think that some of their plans can be a bit more idealistic and nostalgic than realistic. Doubling of Galway to Athenry and reopening of Athenry to Claremorris would in my opinion be the ideal and most profitable projects. Phase 4 of the WRC (Claremorris to Colooney) should definitely be kept from the greenwaying plague but I just think that at the moment, the market is not there, and money (a rather sparse commodity in this government) could be better used elsewhere. 

[Darrman]

Galway Beo report that vegetation clearance is underway on the line. In addition, the Mayo News reports that Government have agreed to apply to include Athenry-Claremorris and Waterford-Rosslare into the TEN-T network, which would open up funding from Europe.

Not directly related to the WRC but still important is the signing of a contract to refurbish Ceannt Station, bringing Galway from two platforms to five, as reported by the Independent. I've tried to find relevant planning applications, but Galway City Council's website is rubbish and any time you try to search for something it breaks. The significant capacity upgrade would serve Mayo services well.

 

[Darrman]

Galway Beo report Irish Rail are about to apply for planning permission for a passing loop at Oranmore.

The article also reports a councillor's call to build a station in Renmore. Extra stops for locals to Athenry can't hurt, though I wouldn't have any intercities call. 

The only public road leading down to the railway line in the Renmore area is in the left circle I drew. In a world where there are frequent Galway suburban services I'd consider opening a station in Roscam at the level crossing on the right circle, but it might be too close (about a mile) to Oranmore. If old Oranmore's site was used instead it would be an easier prospect, I think. Any such developments should come with double tracking, and I'd have Athenry become the last stop before Galway for Dublin services.

[Darrman]

https://www.irishrail.ie/en-ie/news/planning-permission-sought-oranmore

Planning permission is about to be lodged for 1km passing loop and platform at Oranmore: construction scheduled to begin autumn 2025. We'll see if they keep to that.

[226 Abhann na Suire]

Credit where credit’s due for the dynamic passing loop though, really will help to slicken service passings at the station. Does anyone know what side the double track will be extending? My grandfather was the chief civil engineer in charge of the N67 Dual Carriageway bridge over the railway east of the current station and demanded that the bridge be built with space for a second track in the future, so I’m just curious if his efforts will be fruitful in this project!! Station plans look stunning, can’t wait to see this finally happen. 

[Darrman]

I suppose this thread is good enough. No reports in Irish media and Google News searches turn up a lot of mirrors, but this is the oldest one as far as I can tell.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/jacobs-to-support-critical-ireland-railway-infrastructure-program-302509528.html

Jacobs have been given a contract for feasibility studies to improve the line from Portarlington to Galway. Of course, feasibility studies do not equal boots on the ground, but you can't get a boot on the ground without a feasibility study. The press release mentions improving line speeds and track capacity in line with the Strategic Rail Review: if stuck to the letter that's doubling to Athlone and eventually electrification to Galway. They may well find something cheaper, but all will probably be revealed in time.

[Darrman]

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/mayo/news/irish-rail-hopes-to-have-western-rail-corridor-construction-underway-before-2030/a1540391420.html

Irish Rail's CEO says the company hopes to have construction underway by 2030, with design and feasibility studies currently in progress. If money wasn't an object Athenry-Claremorris "could be delivered in three years", but it is mentioned there is no broader funding for the project currently. The hope appears to be it getting listed in the National Development Plan.

[226 Abhann na Suire]

Great news absolutely! You’d wonder will they have the foresight to consider Galway - Athenry doubling as part of the project…

I reckon if they don't, they’ll just about be alright for the first few years with extending every Galway - Athenry commuter train to Claremorris or at least Tuam, lengthening the train and pushing the passing loop at Oranmore to its absolute limits.

But with Galway services set to go hourly before the decade is out, and an overdue increase of Limerick - Galway services also long overdue, they’d really need to get the finger out with the doubling.

In terms of a likely cost/distribution for the project, does anyone know if adding the doubling to the Claremorris project would wreck a CBA…?

It might be a case like DART+, where adding DART Underground to the project would’ve sank any Cost/Benefit study, but the CBA for DU once the rest of the DART+ works are done will speak for itself as being the no-brainer project to maximise the new capacity created by DART+.

If they don’t double it with the WRC, it’s very likely, the doubling will sell itself once the WRC opens as being a necessary and well-worth it project.

Just in terms of keeping imaginations active as the evenings get darker, what kind of a service to we think the line would get. Would intercity services from Galway go only to Claremorris, or would they continue to Westport, or Ballina for that matter? Would Tuam get any Tuam to Galway commuters? An extension of the existing services to Athenry for example? And dare I say, very unlikely, but Limerick to Westport…? 

[Mol_PMB]

6 minutes ago, 226 Abhann na Suire said:

Just in terms of keeping imaginations active as the evenings get darker, what kind of a service to we think the line would get. Would intercity services from Galway go only to Claremorris, or would they continue to Westport, or Ballina for that matter? Would Tuam get any Tuam to Galway commuters? An extension of the existing services to Athenry for example? And dare I say, very unlikely, but Limerick to Westport…? 

And there was me thinking Sligo, Enniskillen and Derry/Londonderry... 

[ttc0169]

13 minutes ago, 226 Abhann na Suire said:

Great news absolutely! You’d wonder will they have the foresight to consider Galway - Athenry doubling as part of the project…

I reckon if they don't, they’ll just about be alright for the first few years with extending every Galway - Athenry commuter train to Claremorris or at least Tuam, lengthening the train and pushing the passing loop at Oranmore to its absolute limits.

But with Galway services set to go hourly before the decade is out, and an overdue increase of Limerick - Galway services also long overdue, they’d really need to get the finger out with the doubling.

In terms of a likely cost/distribution for the project, does anyone know if adding the doubling to the Claremorris project would wreck a CBA…?

It might be a case like DART+, where adding DART Underground to the project would’ve sank any Cost/Benefit study, but the CBA for DU once the rest of the DART+ works are done will speak for itself as being the no-brainer project to maximise the new capacity created by DART+.

If they don’t double it with the WRC, it’s very likely, the doubling will sell itself once the WRC opens as being a necessary and well-worth it project.

Just in terms of keeping imaginations active as the evenings get darker, what kind of a service to we think the line would get. Would intercity services from Galway go only to Claremorris, or would they continue to Westport, or Ballina for that matter? Would Tuam get any Tuam to Galway commuters? An extension of the existing services to Athenry for example? And dare I say, very unlikely, but Limerick to Westport…? 

Very early days yet-but it’s looking like a Claremorris-Galway or Limerick commuter initially with and Tuam service in the mix-longer term would see a Ballina or Westport to Galway/Limerick. 

[Westcorkrailway]

31 minutes ago, ttc0169 said:

Very early days yet-but it’s looking like a Claremorris-Galway or Limerick commuter initially with and Tuam service in the mix-longer term would see a Ballina or Westport to Galway/Limerick. 

I like the idea of a Sligo-Galway passenger Service…

 

would Waterford-Westport/Ballina goods be re-routed down the corridor? Would require a run around at limerick Colbert ect.

or they could run all rail freight to Foynes… 

[ttc0169]

53 minutes ago, Westcorkrailway said:

 

 

would Waterford-Westport/Ballina goods be re-routed down the corridor? Would require a run around at limerick Colbert ect.

or they could run all rail freight to Foynes… 

Yes-that would be the plan-the current Limerick pilot 071 could be used to work the continuation of a liner from there to Waterford-dropping in on the rear of the liner at Limerick check-or run through to Foynes as well. 

[Darrman]

I'd be surprised if there was any more than a few Limerick-Claremorris trains a day: I'd say Galway would be the main start and finish point for trains. The extension to five platforms will facilitate increased frequencies on all routes.

As for the route itself, I've mused about this a few years ago earlier in the thread but I'd still be surprised if any intermediate stations other than Tuam opened. The Wikipedia quip is outdated at least: Ballyglunin has an article there now. Ballindine is roughly on par with Ardrahan and Milltown is smaller still, so I wouldn't expect them to reopen. But Ardrahan did reopen, so you'd never know. One more point: while I assume no major realignments will take place, there are four level crossings of the N17, three in fairly close succession around Ballindine and in towards Claremorris. Would safety standards demand any bridging of these at expense?