Advice on a Worsley etch

[Galteemore]

After a bit of advice please. I have just received a Worsley etch for a GNRI J4 coach. I’m pretty sure this isn’t actually a J4 as I can’t see any evidence of a brake compartment. That I can live with. However, I’m flummoxed as to two main points. 1. What it actually is, and how it’s laid out internally. 2. What I actually do with it! I can’t work out what to do with the floor etch and where the footboards go. The coach body is a mystery as it seems to have a slit running right along the middle for some reason. This will obviously have to be backed or filled with something. Any ideas or tips welcome please !! 

[Mol_PMB]

I would suggest that the upper and lower halves of the sides are intended to overlap in the middle, to give a multi-layer effect that couldn't be achieved if etched in one piece.

I'll see if I can find a prototype photo to demonstrate.

[Mol_PMB]

These photos show the side beading arrangement moderately clearly.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509033328

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509293725

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509294600

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53507834347

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508810174

The lower bodyside part should overlap in front of the upper part, on that half-etched strip. That way the lower panelling is flush with the upper beading, and you get the three different layers visible on the prototype.

 

As for the exact prototype, I'm afraid I can't help as I'm no expert on GNR carriages. But the window and door arrangement shows that it's a gangwayed coach with toilets, and I would suggest 4 compartments and the remainder a saloon. Whether the compartment/saloon arrangement was first/third, or whether the saloon was intended to provide dining accommodation for use with an adjacent kitchen car, I can't say.

[Mol_PMB]

These show the layers of the sides quite well too:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511884225

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54256972253

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54256972233

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54256744461

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54419692264

 

[Galteemore]

Thanks Paul - makes perfect sense now! Hopefully one of the carriage gurus such as @Paul 34F will recognise what we have here, as it matches nothing I can see in photos.

[Mol_PMB]

On the floor, I think there’s a strip each side which folds up to attach the body sides. 
The separate full-length strips must be the solebars and they have tabs which go into the slots in the floor, from underneath. 

[Robert Shrives]

46 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

On the floor, I think there’s a strip each side which folds up to attach the body sides. 
The separate full-length strips must be the solebars and they have tabs which go into the slots in the floor, from underneath. 

Yes that is it Comet coach kit style. 

[Paul 34F]

7 hours ago, Galteemore said:

Thanks Paul - makes perfect sense now! Hopefully one of the carriage gurus such as @Paul 34F will recognise what we have here, as it matches nothing I can see in photos.

David,

A quick glance suggests a 2nd / 3rd class composite.  However, the corridor side doesn’t remind me of a H5 vehicle?  I will have to look through my files to see if I can tell you what Worsley has sold you!

Kind regards

Paul

[Galteemore]

1 hour ago, Paul 34F said:

David,

A quick glance suggests a 2nd / 3rd class composite.  However, the corridor side doesn’t remind me of a H5 vehicle?  I will have to look through my files to see if I can tell you what Worsley has sold you!

Kind regards

Paul

Thanks Paul. It’s all a bit mysterious to me too, and I’ve asked Allen what he thinks it might be. The label on the etch says J4 but that it ain’t ! 

[Horsetan]

34 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

Thanks Paul. It’s all a bit mysterious to me too, and I’ve asked Allen what he thinks it might be. The label on the etch says J4 but that it ain’t ! 

Worst-case scenario: these might be etches from three different types of carriage.

[Galteemore]

Just now, Horsetan said:

Worst-case scenario: these might be etches from three different types of carriage.

Yes, I had wondered if that might be the case. Whatever happens I know more about GNRI carriages than I did 24 hours ago ….

[Mol_PMB]

I did half wonder whether the sides might be GSWR as they did, I think, have some compartment/saloon composites. GSR and CiE copied the idea. Sorry to be vague, I’m away from my notes at present. 

[jhb171achill]

4 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

I did half wonder whether the sides might be GSWR as they did, I think, have some compartment/saloon composites. GSR and CiE copied the idea. Sorry to be vague, I’m away from my notes at present. 

The GNR did too, but I don’t have the details.

[Paul 34F]

15 hours ago, Galteemore said:

Thanks Paul. It’s all a bit mysterious to me too, and I’ve asked Allen what he thinks it might be. The label on the etch says J4 but that it ain’t ! 

David,

I believe I have solved the mystery!  The carriage sides are for the I13 Tricomposite.  They were built in 1929, numbers 269 and 270.  However, they were built with Matchboard end panels.  I will PM a copy of the Dundalk diagram to you.

Kind regards

Paul

[Galteemore]

43 minutes ago, Paul 34F said:

David,

I believe I have solved the mystery!  The carriage sides are for the I13 Tricomposite.  They were built in 1929, numbers 269 and 270.  However, they were built with Matchboard end panels.  I will PM a copy of the Dundalk diagram to you.

Kind regards

Paul

Thanks so much Paul! I figured if anyone knew it would be you   And having just looked, Allen has an I13 in his range….

Edited May 10 by Galteemore

[Galteemore]

After a very good day at the Gauge O Guild trade show yesterday- was good to see @Timosherry there - picked up a few bits for the coach so I can make a start. Just wondering what the circled bits are for - a reinforcement for the buffer beam? Any guidance much appreciated! 

[Mol_PMB]

They'll be mounts for the bogies.

[Galteemore]

9 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

They'll be mounts for the bogies.

Thanks - wondered about that. So they fold up as a box and attach to coach floor? 

[Mol_PMB]

1 minute ago, Galteemore said:

Thanks - wondered about that. So they fold up as a box and attach to coach floor? 

Yes. Before attaching to the floor, I'd solder a bolt in place pointing downward through the hole.

[Galteemore]

Just now, Mol_PMB said:

Yes. Before attaching to the floor, I'd solder a bolt in place pointing downward through the hole.

Great. Thanks! Thought that might be what was required - the box giving clearance for the bolt head…but thought it’s worth asking an expert! 

[Bob49]

In my experience of their etches what you think your buying is not what you get. I had a client who bought a Furness Railway Rail car etch from them it didn't match any known photo or the works drawings. It did however match a sketch in a book by Rush. I had to send it back to the client saying I couldn't build it. So good luck 

Marc

[flange lubricator]

It should look something like this albeit with better soldering skills than mine , the Worlsey works kits are a tad light on instructions! 

 

Edited Sunday at 11:14 by flange lubricator

[Andy Cundick]

55 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

They'll be mounts for the bogies.

No they're not  It fits at the body end to strengthen the bottom end and with a nut soldered over the hole thats how you attach the body to the chassis thats what the hole at  the end of the floor is for Andy

[Mol_PMB]

Sorry for my incorrect answer - now I look more closely, I agree that Andy is right.

[Mayner]

In the absence of instructions "Building Coaches the Comet Way" is an excellent guide to building ocaches using Worsley Works Parts.

 

Building Coaches the Comet Way2.pdf

[flange lubricator]

1 hour ago, Andy Cundick said:

No they're not  It fits at the body end to strengthen the bottom end and with a nut soldered over the hole thats how you attach the body to the chassis thats what the hole at  the end of the floor is for Andy

You correct I have put the correct picture on my post 

There is a very good thread here from Murrayec about building a Worlsey works Kit