KR models situation

[Westcorkrailway]

Recently came to my attention that KR models. Who specialised in Niche British Railway Prototypes has appeared to have gone out of business. There company is listed as inactive and social media’s have been taken down. There might be some on here who have pre-orders with them (I saw a lot of people with Bullied Leaders on here when they came out). Hopefully they make a statement shortly on the fate of pre orders. 

[Georgeconna]

4 hours ago, Westcorkrailway said:

Recently came to my attention that KR models. Who specialised in Niche British Railway Prototypes has appeared to have gone out of business. There company is listed as inactive and social media’s have been taken down. There might be some on here who have pre-orders with them (I saw a lot of people with Bullied Leaders on here when they came out). Hopefully they make a statement shortly on the fate of pre orders. 

Yes lots on RMWEB to wade through.

I got the GT3 and Leader and are quite happy with the engine, Run very well from the outset, yes the lights on the GT3 did not work as they should and a 2nd run fixed that which annoyed me as it devalued my loco nor were the initial customer offered a fix. There is a workaround for the correct lights to be shown though so can be sorted. The leader also had a few issues, Wheels not portrayed properly and buffer beam not painted red were the main ones. TBH the wheels you can hardly see and the buffer beam took 15 mins to paint with an AK marker pen so no big deal.

After the DJM  and the APT mess I was a bit concerned to order anything before it came out after the Fell really and nothing really captured my interest so luckily I have not got any deposits in play. FOMO is a awful thing to have!

If it is the end its a shame as they did build some niche models that a lot of people wanted instead of endless class 66's.

Now do I really want a KR DD before they become unobtainable. £475 is a lot to shell out.

 

G

 

 

 

[Darius43]

KR Models has this morning sent an email to its subscribers that it has gone into liquidation and that those who have monies tied up with them for pre-paid models will need to seek redress with their credit card company (if they used them for payment), otherwise they will be unsecured creditors and most likely receive nothing.  

I have several of their models: GT3 (great), Fell (works ok, which is apparently an achievement), 4DD (rather nice after some fettling) and Leader (so far all the wheels are still on, which is also apparently an achievement).

All in all a sad end.

Darius

[leslie10646]

14 minutes ago, Darius43 said:

KR Models has this morning sent an email to its subscribers that it has gone into liquidation and that those who have monies tied up with them for pre-paid models will need to seek redress with their credit card company (if they used them for payment), otherwise they will be unsecured creditors and most likely receive nothing.  

I have several of their models: GT3 (great), Fell (works ok, which is apparently an achievement), 4DD (rather nice after some fettling) and Leader (so far all the wheels are still on, which is also apparently an achievement).

All in all a sad end.

Darius

Yes, it's sad that they couldn't make their business model work.

Like Darius, I have a Leader (thankfully still OK, but not run for a few months) and the 4DD, which is iffy, but an interesting model to have, even if likely to end up in a glass case .......

[Westcorkrailway]

KR models Email statement: 

 

 

Important News

It is with deep regret and sadness that we have to inform you that KR Models has gone into liquidation. Sadly, economic trading conditions at the moment are very tough for everybody. With global economic uncertainty, costs to every business have been pushed up to unforeseeable levels.

Sadly we have not been immune from these issues, and following on from news that one major manufacturer has been bought out to ensure their survival, and another has increasingly shifted to a direct sale approach to preserve the viability of their business model, we have reached a major crunch point. Our warehouse contains a large quantity of unsold stock. This is a lot of money tied up in assets that just are no longer selling, and we have been faced with an inability to raise the money required to pay the outstanding balance on our newest model that had just finished production in China. As the factory will understandably not release the models until the full batch is paid for, we have reached a point at which we have no choice but to shut our doors.

Our business model has always been one where customers can have the choice of either paying up front for a model, or waiting until it arrives into stock to order. We even introduced a payment plan so that you could spread the cost to help modellers buy expensive models. Do not believe anyone who seeks to further their own profile with videos or social media posts claiming otherwise.

When we first began, we came into the hobby not long before, a company that employed a crowdfunding model, DJ Models, had gone bust. It was not a good time to start a model manufacturer as a result. DJ Models had been a pure crowdfunding business, whereas we were not, despite the attempts by some to smear us with the same brush. We fought to overcome the stigma, and won awards for our first model - the GT3. We are very proud of that beginning. But the stigma left by DJ Models was strong, and it left a lot of suspicion of any new entrant to the market.

Our second model, the Fell, was a compromise. The reason why? The real Fell changed a lot over its short life. If we made a model that was of a specific moment in its life then we would have severely limited sales of what was always going to be a niche model. So we chose to make something that could represent Fell through her life. We were slated for that, but we knew that the realities of bringing a model to market are very different from what armchair experts would have you believe.

Where that model went wrong was that a large batch of the wheels used had a fault with wheel bushes that were not picked up until after the models shipped. By that time it was too late. Models in China are made via a main factory that then subcontracts different parts to other factories. There can be a vast supply chain, and it might surprise some people to know that there are factories that make nothing but motors, circuit boards, or wheels. They probably make parts for dozens of different manufacturers around the World. In our case those parts had a weakness and it caused an unacceptably high proportion of models to fail.

Despite the claims from certain social media influencers banging their drum for views, we did care. So much so that we undertook a programme of repairing all models under warranty, even though it made us make a huge loss on the model. We honoured our warranty and ordered in hundreds of new wheels. We paid for return postage and had a team of people fix models, sometimes even technically outside of warranty periods, because we felt it was the right thing to do. Those with an agenda to gain views from misfortune never point that out.

Unfortunately around this time the campaigns against KR really got into full swing, influencing followers and spreading misinformation about our business and models. This is very damaging for any business, and coupled with the problems caused by DJ Models' demise, we were left always on the back foot.

The Leader had some issues on a few models with failed wheel bushes and damaged whistles. We actually traced the issue to a pallet of models having been damaged in the factory after packing in their inner blister but before being put in their outer box. We did not know of this until warranty claims were made. But again, we honoured warranty and made sure spares were available to fix every model that was presented for repair at no cost to the consumer.

Our Hunslet model generated a single warranty return which was traced to a displaced bogie retaining clip and was easily fixed. We are rightly proud of that model, but the detractors conveniently never talk about it. Other models have had some teething troubles, but we never shirked warranty, and made sure they were repaired.

With our 4DD some of the bogie retaining screws were over tightened. We asked people to loosen all six per model, but spurred on by a sense of "they should fix it" drummed up by influencers looking to create drama out of small issues for the views, so many people sent models back at our expense for a technician to spend 20 seconds backing six screws off two turns. That costs money that has to come from somewhere.

Sadly the negative campaigning by one influencer in particular became too much. Their constant attempts to spread lies about our business model and portray our models as all junk had an influence on customers. They cancelled orders or just did not purchase when the models arrived. Our warehouse contains a huge amount of unsold stock orphaned in this way, because someone told their followers to avoid our models, and they listened to their word without checking the models out for themselves. Those that have paid in full for models should thank the influencers and their campaign for creating the environment that left you severely out of pocket.

Sadly the crunch point has been reached. KR Models has ceased trading as a result.

What this means for you

Our website and Facebook page have been taken offline. As we are no longer trading, we are required to do this.

Those with preorders paid up front should contact their credit card provider for a refund where possible. If you cannot, then sadly you become an unsecured creditor of the business and must wait for the outcome of the winding up proceedings. If there is enough money left after other liabilities have been settled, then unsecured creditors will get some or all of their money back.

Warranty claims are no longer able to be met with the company no longer trading. We would like to reassure those who had already sent models to us that these are safe, and will be repaired and returned - your model will not disappear into an administration void. Please be patient and we will get the repaired model back to you as fast as possible.

Model repairs may be able to be carried out by a third party if this can be arranged. This will happen for as long as spare parts remain available, however there would be a charge made for the work and you would be liable for paying postage costs. We will make our customers aware if and when this is set up. Please note that it would be provided by a third party not connected with KR Models.

What happens to future unreleased models?

The tooling exists and is complete for the Shay, Bellerophon, Big Bertha, DHP1 and in addition the torpedo wagons are at an advanced state. The Shay is produced, but remains the property of the Chinese factory that made them. These may appear via another manufacturer in time, however that is outside of our control. Please remember that even if you paid up front for a Shay, these models do not and never did belong to KR Models and you would need to pay the new owners for one if you chose to get one.

Currently we are in negotiations with a manufacturer for the sale of our previous tooling. This should allow previous models to reappear at a future date. Whichever manufacturer who buys them will tell you about it if and when they are ready to.

New tooling that has not yet been released is also part of negotiations. This is complicated by the fact that many Chinese factories offer tooling at a reduced development and production cost in return for effectively tying the first production run to their factory. This means that the tooling cannot just be sold and moved to the factory of choice by a manufacturer and may complicate the models appearing quickly. Our unreleased tooling fell into this category. Again, it is up to any manufacturer who buys it to tell you about that if and when they wish to. Do not ask us as this will remain a commercial secret. Again, please note that if that manufacturer runs that tooling then even if you paid KR Models in full for a model, it does not entitle you to one of their production run, and you would have to purchase a model from them at the rate they set.

Projects that had not progressed to tooling should be considered cancelled and defunct with immediate effect. This includes any of our three unannounced projects that you may have heard rumours of.

And finally

We would like to thank all our customers for their support over the years, and we hope that our models will provide years of enjoyment and service on your layout.

Keep on enjoying the greatest hobby in the World. Don't let anybody tell you what you should or shouldn't like. There is no one right way to make a model railway, and don't listen to anyone who puts you down. Also, if you don't like an aspect of railway modelling, then remember that store bought products to make your life easier are fine. It's okay to hate ballasting; no-one of value will judge you for it.

[GSR 800]

Seems like a pretty clear pointing of the finger at Sam's Trains from what I can see.

Only posted a video calling KR the worst manufacturer a few weeks back (didn't bother watching)

[Westcorkrailway]

He uploaded 2 videos in the last few days about it. And while this decision to stop trading was already made, I reckon the statement was largely written around it. Seems like a lot of young and inpr ship able fans took it upon themselves to hurl abuse at the support email over the last couple of days. Also seems himself and “Kieth” of KR models had quite a feud. 
 

Not to defend Sam’s trains too much here (I hadn’t watched him in years before this KR models thing) but I don’t think blaming reviewers is the right move. The critique of the models was pretty fair from my understanding 

[Darius43]

I did watch the Sam’s Trains video and, whilst I don’t agree that KR Models are (or were) the worst model railway manufacturer (DJ Models anyone?), most of what he said was fair comment, in my view.  He did put out a further video asking for no abuse to be directed at KR Models, whether that was conscience or pre-emptying possible legal consequences, I don’t know.

I don’t watch much of Sam’s Trains output, or that of any of the other model railway “influencers” on YouTube as they are trying to monetise my attention, which I think is better directed elsewhere.

KR Models, I believe did want to produce niche models and (unlike DJ Models) did try to address customer concerns and rectify defects in people’s models.  In my view they let themselves down by over-reaching in the different types of prototype being offered at once and over-promising as to what they could provide, all this with poor and occasionally bizarre communication.  As with so many other ventures, they ran out of money and went bust.

Darius

 

[Flying Snail]

I’m genuinely sorry to see KR Models go into liquidation. Whatever criticisms people may have had, nobody should take pleasure in a business failing, customers losing money, or years of work coming to such a painful end. That said, I found the tone of the liquidation statement difficult to accept.

Keith has clearly put enormous time, effort, money and emotion into KR Models, and I do have sympathy for that. Outsourced manufacturing, especially in China, is complicated. Supply chains are difficult. Quality control can be challenging. Small manufacturers are under real pressure, and the model railway market is not an easy place to survive.

But sympathy does not remove accountability. The statement places a lot of blame on influencers and social media commentary, but the reality is that much of the criticism did not appear out of nowhere. Customers raised concerns because, in many cases, the models had real and visible issues. Wheel problems, damaged parts, warranty returns, over-tightened screws and inconsistent quality were not invented by YouTubers. They were customer experiences.

It is not fair to suggest that influencers alone created the problem. Influencers may have amplified criticism, and some may use strong language or chase engagement, but that does not automatically make their criticism invalid. In this case, I think Sam and others were giving views that were, broadly speaking, defensible based on the products people actually received.

There is also a bigger point here. Other companies have managed outsourced manufacturing successfully. Accurascale have shown that high-quality modern models can be produced through overseas manufacturing. Accurascale are no longer a small company, of course, but I think KR Models can fairly be compared, at least in broad terms, with Murphy Models, which under the late Paddy Murphy also delivered highly regarded models through outsourced production.

So the issue is not simply “China”, “the factory” or “the influencers”. The responsibility still sits with the brand that commissioned, approved and sold the product.

Of course, social media influencers are not beyond criticism. Some lack experience. Some can be too dramatic. Some may have commercial relationships that are not always obvious to viewers. But when a reviewer highlights genuine quality issues, that is not sabotage. That is scrutiny. In a hobby where models can cost hundreds of pounds, customers deserve honest commentary before spending their money.

The saddest part of this is that customers who paid upfront may now be left out of pocket. Blaming influencers for that feels misplaced. The business took the orders, managed the projects, chose the factories, approved the products and handled the finances. Those are commercial responsibilities.

I wish Keith and everyone involved no ill will. But I do think the closing statement would have landed better with more accountability and less blame directed at the people who pointed out problems that many customers could see for themselves.

Criticism is not the same as a campaign. Honest reviews are not the enemy of the hobby. In fact, they are part of what protects it.

[DJ Dangerous]

Sad to read this, both for their customers and for KR themselves.

They came across as well-meaning and earnest, but with a shaky business model and a lack of security.

Producing niche models is admirable, but not sustainable. You need the odd bread and butter model from time to time, something that will sell out, fast, to bolster your finances and allow you continue with the niche models.

Excluding Sam’s Trains from the equation, I saw enough videos and comments from others to know that there were serious quality control issues. I did see some of Sam’s rants, but he was far from the only one, and in today’s online world, you have to expect some level of heckling over your mistakes.

Not justifying abuse or hate, but blaming influencers etc falls flat on it’s face. They are part of the scene and are here to stay, while they can make money out of it.

Here’s hoping that they manage to shift the warehouse stock and repay at least something to folk who have lost out.

As a side note, the forum search function has a three-letter minimum, so searching for “KR” won’t work. You’ll need to use DuckDuckGo or Google or whatever to search.

[Georgeconna]

"Excluding Sam’s Trains from the equation, I saw enough videos and comments from others to know that there were serious quality control issues"

Correct - look at page 1 of the Fell announcement in RMWEB, seeds of doubt set in from the outset. I love anything with outside connecting rods really but I kept away from that yoke. Would of loved one but did not want siding queen.

Sad to see that people have lost money but after DJM APT debacle where I was very very tempted to part cash but did not I am wary now about pre ordering and have gotten over the FOMO think (party as I have too much stock I reckon)

Even Rapido have had some issues with models and the U class is on the way soon which I would love but I will wait for..............a honest review.

Thankfully my I can continue to enjoy the weird and wonderful Leader and GT3 so thanks KR for those. 

 

 

 

 

Edited 8 hours ago by Georgeconna

[irishthump]

1 hour ago, DJ Dangerous said:

Not justifying abuse or hate, but blaming influencers etc falls flat on it’s face. They are part of the scene and are here to stay, while they can make money out of it.

 

Yeah it's a sad reality though. These influencers can also downplay their part in things by hiding behind the screen of "I'm just giving an honest review." While all the while using clickbait title cards saying things like "I'm so angry about this model!" or "worst loco EVER!" and gleefully putting the boot in when there are problems.

It's not helped by the fact that some of these "reviews" are shaky at best.

[Broithe]

Anybody fancy starting a channel reviewing the reviewers?

Maybe it already exists?
 

Much the same thing exists in 'real life', with people deliberately misinterpreting reality on politics, news, health - and many other subjects...
 

Truth matters less than belief in many cases.

[Horsetan]

1 hour ago, Broithe said:

Anybody fancy starting a channel reviewing the reviewers?

Maybe it already exists?
 

Much the same thing exists in 'real life', with people deliberately misinterpreting reality on politics, news, health - and many other subjects...
 

Truth matters less than belief in many cases.

Self-delusion seems to be the future, along with stupidity and incompetence 

[Broithe]

5 minutes ago, Horsetan said:

Self-delusion seems to be the future, along with stupidity and incompetence 

Including Artificial Incompetence - so you don't even have to do it yourself.

[Horsetan]

1 hour ago, Broithe said:

Including Artificial Incompetence - so you don't even have to do it yourself.

The Lazy Society