Kirley Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 New Diesel Electric Arrival, back in 1961. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popeye Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Did the steam drivers change over to driving diesel loco's? It must have made a big difference to their workload. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhb171achill Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 In one of the earlier examples of what we nowadays call an "early retirement package", steam drivers who did not want to re-train were given an option of early retirement (no lump sum, but the comparatively generous CIE pension), or a move to another area of the company. Among those I have been aware of, were one who became a goods clerk, another few who transferred to station work, and another who re-trained as a CIE bus driver. If they transferred to another area where wages were lower, I would imagine (but I'm not sure) they kept their driver's terms and conditions. Many left. Same with the UTA - one GNR driver who my father knew became a bread delivery man. Many emigrated, including the man who drove the last train out of Enniskillen in 1957. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junctionmad Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 In the US , that basic Diesel loco pattern had killed steam from 45 onwards . I seem to remember getting a cab ride in the 70s , with a driver that had been a fireman , did firemen retrain to be diesel drivers ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Railer Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 When you see pictures of the as delivered 121s you really notice what got added to them over the years. Looking at that shot, no full length hand rails along the hood and no air brake and multiple working hoses or connections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhb171achill Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 In the US , that basic Diesel loco pattern had killed steam from 45 onwards . I seem to remember getting a cab ride in the 70s , with a driver that had been a fireman , did firemen retrain to be diesel drivers ? Some did, some didn't. Some left the railway entirely, others got non driving railway jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craven1508 Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 they were busy little work-horses too 121,s unique looking loco,s memories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhb171achill Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 they were busy little work-horses too 121,s unique looking loco,smemories. And as can be seen above, and even more so in colour, they looked positively space-age compared with what was round them. A bit like a brand new ICR sitting beside one of the last 141s, only way more so. Good that 134 is preserved - and now IT looks archaic! From space age to archaic in forty years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiveController Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 And as can be seen above, and even more so in colour, they looked positively space-age compared with what was round them. I thought exactly that as I looked at the photo. There seems to be a clear black lining to both the snail and the number whereas no such contrast exists between the yellow and grey above and below the bufferbeam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNRi1959 Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Some of the drivers I knew of became UTA bus drivers, furniture removal men or school lollypop men! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhb171achill Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 This lining is uncertain. Memory suggests white lining and many photos show this. Others show a dark colour. Thus there are two possibilities. One is that some had a dark coloured lining and others didn't; seems improbable but not impossible. The other is that whatever they used to make the white lining attracted dirt very quickly, which stuck to it. Jury's still out but intend to get to the bottom of it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broithe Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 This lining is uncertain. Memory suggests white lining and many photos show this. Others show a dark colour. Thus there are two possibilities. One is that some had a dark coloured lining and others didn't; seems improbable but not impossible. The other is that whatever they used to make the white lining attracted dirt very quickly, which stuck to it. Jury's still out but intend to get to the bottom of it! If the issue is with B&W pictures, it can be a matter of whether Ortho- or Pan- film was in used. Yellows came out very differently depending on which was used. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panchromatic_film https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthochromasia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiveController Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 (edited) This lining is uncertain. Memory suggests white lining and many photos show this. Others show a dark colour. Thus there are two possibilities. One is that some had a dark coloured lining and others didn't; seems improbable but not impossible. The other is that whatever they used to make the white lining attracted dirt very quickly, which stuck to it. The reason that I brought it up was that this loco is so new. However, dirt sticks quickly with steamers still around etc. Even newer photo probably sitting on her bogies for the first time at North Wall which suggest you're correct about the lack of a black line, although I don't see any here to be honest. Were they stripes on the skirt sprayed on, or applied like Tippex lines on later liveries? I have forgotten to whom this should be credited and i apologise in advance If the issue is with B&W pictures, it can be a matter of whether Ortho- or Pan- film was in used. Yellows came out very differently depending on which was used. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panchromatic_film https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthochromasia That's very interesting, Jim as we have tried to infer color between B&W photos before. I suppose in a single photo the colors would at least be uniform and the there's definitely some lining issue on the snails and number which des not appear to occur between the body color and lines on the front skirt Edited March 11, 2017 by DiveController Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broithe Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 That's very interesting, Jim as we have tried to infer color between B&W photos before. I suppose in a single photo the colors would at least be uniform and the there's definitely some lining issue on the snails and number which des not appear to occur between the body color and lines on the front skirt Without a known reference colour in the picture, it can be difficult to be sure - in general, older is ortho- and younger is pan-, but there was a lot of overlap time. Yellow is the most awkward colour - it can be dark or light. As you can see from the two pictures, you have little chance of being sure, unless there's something in the shot that you can be confident of. You could have two B&W pictures of the same yellow stripe and see one as dark and one as light on the final print, yet the engine would look the same grey in each picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broithe Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 (edited) Two (different, unfortunately) Spitfires - note the yellow outer ring on the fuselage roundel and the red (forward) stripe on the fin flash. Ortho- Pan- Also, the blues have quite a difference, too. The fin flash appears to have the colours reversed between the shots, but RAF is always red at the front, blue at the back. Guessing colours from B&W with no reference points is a dodgy game. Edited March 12, 2017 by Broithe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murrayec Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Hi This discussion on the 121 livery took place some time back in another thread but I cant find it. In researching the livery for a 121 kit I'm working on(from time to time!) I came to the conclusion that its a gold line! added to the front and rear logo/numbering and not on the side, this lead me to believe it was done for visual reasons, you can see the grey and yellow have poor contrast with each other in the above photo- especially at a distance. If you check out the 121 colour photos in the Huntress book and the Boocock book you'll see its back n front only, especially the Huntress photo of the cab end in the sunshine its not black or white, its kind of brown! Eoin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weshty Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Check out Tom Ferris Irish Railways in Colour Book One. Page 93. It doesn't look to be gold, but yellow with black lining as it matches the yellow solebars, handrails and apron striping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broithe Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Even with colour films, there's often a good variation. And even looking at it directly with your own eyes, it depends on the light you're seeing under - and then you need to consider the light that you will see the model under - and there is a strange aspect of "scale" to colours - even using the exact paint can "look wrong" in the end. Looking 'right' may be more important than being correct. It's a minefield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broithe Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Taking it even further, you may find, and more so as you get older, that you even see slightly different colours with each of your own eyes. This usually manifests itself first with pale white / cream / grey colours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murrayec Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Hi The Ferris shot is a bit dark and hard really to tell, Ciaran's shot on his site, is in good light and it doesn't look like black;- http://eiretrains.com/Photo_Gallery/Irish%20Locomotives/121%20Class/IrishLocomotives.html#126_196106086_0001_CC_JA.jpg and there is this stuff also;- http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/showthread.php/4218-Why-flying-snail?p=63616&viewfull=1#post63616 Eoin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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