Layout Plans

[GNRi1959]

Finally made the move and made a total restart in the shed, below you can see that I am now using all four walls of the shed and want to see those GNRi locomotives moving with lots of goods on board. 

Ultimately I want two lines to allow continuous movement around the shed with sidings at various locations.

So I’m back at the design stage, again but much happier with the baseboards now. The board at the shed door lifts in and out easily.

 

 

[GNRi1959]

At the moment I have two options that raise some thought.

Moving my goods yard into the right corner (in bottom picture) and running the main line across the front of the baseboards,

or I can move the Goods Yard buildings to the small unpainted triangle on the left and run the continuous main line behind it along the walls. 

Whats the best way to do this. The first option is set out roughly at moment, below.

Edited July 2, 2018 by GNRi1959

[David Holman]

Visually, keeping the running line radii as generous as possible is very important, though you can always hide the tightest bits with buildings/scenery I guess.

 Hence, mainline on the outside (where bogie stock will look better) and goods yard inside, where four wheel stock on tighter curves is less intrusive. Mind you, if that inner main line is currently no worse than say 30", it should be ok anyway.

[GNRi1959]

1 hour ago, David Holman said:

Visually, keeping the running line radii as generous as possible is very important, though you can always hide the tightest bits with buildings/scenery I guess.

 Hence, mainline on the outside (where bogie stock will look better) and goods yard inside, where four wheel stock on tighter curves is less intrusive. Mind you, if that inner main line is currently no worse than say 30", it should be ok anyway.

David, thanks. I get you. Mainline with passenger stock to the back scene and wagon stock to the inside of the baseboards where curves are tighter. Correct?

Edited July 2, 2018 by GNRi1959

[BosKonay]

I would generally run the mainline at the back which will give you the largest possible radii / rate of turn, which will make bogied freight and coaches (and larger locos) look and run best. you also get the added benefit of the mainline running passing in and behind scenery, buildings, etc, giving more of a sense of 'travel' if you know what I mean

[GNRi1959]

Sounds good. 

Apart from the complex point work at Omagh Goods Yard when the line left the station area, in either direction, there was nothing but a single line of track all the way to the next stop. With this in mind, I think there is a need to raise the entire track enough all round to form embankments and bridges to give an illusion of reality. Therefore, i'll be keeping the area off the station area very simple. No point in complicating things.

Thanks

[David Holman]

The maximum 'less is more' can be very important in track planning, so try not to be tempted by too much track and enjoy making the railway part of the overall scene.

 

[DiveController]

11 hours ago, David Holman said:

Visually, keeping the running line radii as generous as possible is very important, though you can always hide the tightest bits with buildings/scenery I guess.

 Hence, mainline on the outside (where bogie stock will look better) and goods yard inside, where four wheel stock on tighter curves is less intrusive. Mind you, if that inner main line is currently no worse than say 30", it should be ok anyway.

 

9 hours ago, BosKonay said:

I would generally run the mainline at the back which will give you the largest possible radii / rate of turn, which will make bogied freight and coaches (and larger locos) look and run best. you also get the added benefit of the mainline running passing in and behind scenery, buildings, etc, giving more of a sense of 'travel' if you know what I mean

Absolutely agree 

[GNRi1959]

Previous efforts at shunting layouts have led to complex pointwork and wiring. This created much frustration especially when locos had nowhere to travel.

thanks

[GNRi1959]

A little bit of an extension added today..........

 

[Patrick Davey]

It has been said here before Tony but your joinery skills are top notch!

[GNRi1959]

6 hours ago, Patrick Davey said:

It has been said here before Tony but your joinery skills are top notch!

Yes, but my railway design skills are another matter!

[GNRi1959]

Back to the design stage with trammel and point templates, some progress!

 

 

[PaulC]

I really like the look of that, you are maximising the use of the baseboards with the positioning of the shed in that corner yet it doesn’t feel crammed in. 

Paul

[DiveController]

Yes. Agree with that . It looks good

[JasonB]

Adding the extension was a good idea Tony. Gave you that extra bit of space needed which always helps. Really like the angle of the shed, it works well rather having it pushed into the corner running flush against the wall.

[GNRi1959]

Yes, Jason it helped. I now have three sides of the shed well advanced in the planning. The problem I have at the moment is bringing four lines at the Goods Shed into two and easing them into the curves at the opposite end to form the return. Shouldn't be too much trouble. Thanks

[GNRi1959]

Track laying starts again

[JasonB]

Good to see you back at it Tony, really like the look of that. Looking forward to watching this progress now.

[GNRi1959]

Here is a short video of my layout under construction with the first run around in place. Does it look ok? The curves are pretty large radius but its very early stages

 

[jhb171achill]

That's very nice, Tony, and it shows the value of perseverance and thinking it through thoroughly. It's better to try different things, as you have done, rather than settle for something which could be better. Despite the available space, which like in my own case is limited, those are very "flowing" curves and the whole thing looks great. You had said it would be "wagons only" but a set-up like that would certainly allow future inclusion of the sort of two-coach train seen on Derry - Strabane - Omagh locals, and indeed on Enniskillen trains in latter days. I've seen photos at Fintona Jct. of the "main line" train heading from Enniskillen to Foyle Road, consisting of a U class and just two carriages.

Your goods yard also looks great - the buildings are superb too. The curved sidings seem to fit in perfectly.

Looking good! 

[GNRi1959]

Jonathan, thanks for your kind comments and advice. This took almost 6months to get to this stage and I like the way its taking shape. I'm keeping a close eye on the engineers drawings of Omagh and trying to incorporate as much as I can into this, though keeping it simple.

If you know of any ready-to-run coaching stock out there thats is similar to 1950s era GNRi,  do let me know.

Cheers

Edited July 26, 2018 by GNRi1959

[David Holman]

Hardly a straight bit of track anywhere. The curves flow well too.

Lovely!

 

 

[PaulC]

Looking really good Tony. I’ve subbed you in anticipation of lots of moving action. 

Paul

[jhb171achill]

7 hours ago, GNRi1959 said:

If you know of any ready-to-run coaching stock out there thats is similar to 1950s era GNRi,  do let me know.

Tony - SSM do a kit of a K15 and a matching brake 3rd, in brass. I know they're not ready to run an that your main emphasis is on freight (Leslie's GNR vans, open wagons and cattle wagons will be an essential buy). 

And typically, a train in Omagh would have more likely had a wooden panelled brake third, not a steel-sided one. I seem to recall seeing several RTR British coaches which while not at all suitable for purists, with a coat of brown paint and some SSM transfers, would make a reasonable approximation to some GNR stock. I'll try to remember which! Two carriages would do you well. If IRM, or anyone, ever do a RTR 2-car AEC set, there's another for you. A set in navy and cream, and one in ITA green would look amazing!

Glad you've got the GNR locos. I suppose an appeal now and again for anyone selling one might get you a third for a bit of variety - another 0.6.0 maybe.

[Mayner]

There is more than one way to skin a cat, the Dapol Stanier coaches are reasonably priced and passable "layout coach" that would pass for steel sided UTA or CIE Bredin stock, while you are looking for something a bit more accurate , these coaches were originally manufactured by Airfix and GMR during the late 70s early 80s.

Different modelers have produced reasonably convincing GNR coaches using different techniques, Colm Flanagan http://www.worsleyworks.co.uk/Image-Pages/Image_4mm_GNR-I-K15.htm has produced convincing UTA & GNR coaches with Worsley Works sides on Airfix/GMR/Dapol Stanier coach bodies for his own layout and the Bleach Green layout, Kirley has used a combination of plastic & brass body shells http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/93496-kirleys-workbench/page-3, Glover has converted old Triang Hornby stock into reasonably convincing GNR k15s and CIE Laminates for his Pettigo layout

 

[jhb171achill]

Just thought of another thing.... if your model is based in UTA times (1958-65 for the Derry Road), while in reality highly unlikely, it is certainly possible that a UTA coach of ex-NCC origin might have appeared there. There are a number of British LMS wooden-bodied ready-to-run coaches which are like types the NCC had - so a coat of UTA green and away ye go!

Edited July 27, 2018 by jhb171achill

[GNRi1959]

Can anyone advise me if it is possible to do anything to allow locos to change ends when hauling and shunting wagons. The corners are a bit limited for my turntable but can it be done any other way?

[jhb171achill]

Show us the actual track plan you have at present and suggestions can follow!

[David Holman]

Presume there is a run round loop somewhere? Otherwise only a turntable or triangle are the only options I can think of to turn a loco. While most Irish termini had a TT, not all did. Valencia Harbour for one, plus most intermediate stations did without too.

 Some intermediate stations did without a loop and hence could only be shunted in one direction, although chain/rope shunting was resorted to on occasion. Not exactly recommended in 4mm scale! Having said that, Trevor Nunn does it in S gauge and I've had the privilege a couple of times. Great fun, though hard on the nerves...

[jhb171achill]

It would be common enough, especially on local workings, to see engines working tender first......

[GNRi1959]

Here’s a rough sketch of the layout

[David Holman]

SeeSo, no passing loop, just a crossover 'twist the Mainlines.

 The yard can only be shunted by trains on the inside circuit, via a convoluted set of manoeuvres using that crossover. With its penchant for avoiding facing ipoints, the Midland Railway did this a lot, but not deal from a modelling point of view.

 One option would be to have two cross overs on the left hand side, thereby creating a run round loop. Another would be to extend the siding top right, around the curve and hence have an outer loop/lay by. Could even join the fourth siding.

 Alternatively, make the other side of the layout single track, with the left side becoming a long crossing loop. Looks like room on the right for some storage sidings, or is the whole layout going to be scenic?

[GNRi1959]

David,

Heres photographs taken this morning which allow for more accurate viewing. I am in the process of creating a cross-over on the right (Omagh-3) and adding an additional crossover between the first two lines in the sidings (Omagh-2)  at the Goods Yard. This should ease the problem. Although I have included the turntable, I am also a little concerned that is so close to the station buildings, which wasn't the case in Omagh. However, I realise I cannot replicate the prototype exactly. Whats your view?

 

 

 

Edited November 26, 2018 by GNRi1959

[David Holman]

Unless blessed with unlimited space and budget, everything is a compromise, Tony. Capturing the character and feel of our chosen subject is about as far as most of us get.

 Foynes and Bembridge (Isle of Wight), both had turntables doubling up as one end of the loop. Richard Chown did the same on Castle Rackrent, so if it was good enough for him, who are we to argue?

 Real railways were limited by geography, just as we are limited by space. Rules that seem to work are:

Beware filling every available space with track. Less is more, leave room for scenery.

Several short sidings are better than one long one. It makes operation more interesting as each siding can have a specific purpose/traffic.

 Watching trains go round is very nice, but you need somewhere to store them, when not running and that means storage sidings, unless they are going to be changed by hand every time. Storage sidings also represent the 'rest of the world', giving opportunities for timetables or sequences, with trains given real purpose in going to/from somewhere.

 You could create storage by having a siding on the right, going off scene to a cassette. Each need be no more than a length of track on a strip of ply/MDF. You have as many as you like (as your collections grow), and they can be stored on shelves above/below the layout. Much more flexible than giving up space for storage loops too. Will post some pictures later.