WHAT THE FECK IS THIS?

[heirflick]

Hi lads, in the wee hours of this morn, while debating wheather to smash that fecking birds head in chirping away outside  or choke the wife for snoring  I got up and browsed through the O'Dea collection and came across this unusual wagon  awaiting the torch in Mullingar. It appears to have a 6  and 4 wheel bogie on the wagon, with metal curtain sides on the 6 wheel end.   Any thoughts as to what it is?  My first thought was a heavy duty crane .  Sorry about the poor quality, taken from the computer screen with my phone.

[minister_for_hardship]

At a guess, part of the MGWR track laying set?

[Mayner]

Its the chassis of the Bretland gantry re-laying crane  https://patents.google.com/patent/US1547019.

The whole train appears to have been built using war surplus material it looks like Bretland grafted a war surplus 6 w bogie on to a war surplus bogie flat wagon.

A standard gauge version the Morris Tracklaying Machine with a pair of 6wheel bogies  was built for use in the UK and lasted into BR days

https://picclick.co.uk/Morris-Railway-Track-Laying-Machine-Permanent-382880753675.html#&gid=1&pid=1

[Garfield]

2 hours ago, minister_for_hardship said:

At a guess, part of the MGWR track laying set?

I think you're right; probably a part of the Bretland track-laying set.

[heirflick]

Lads - ye have wisdom beyond your years!!  Many thanks for sorting that one  Drinks all round....you might be waiting a while Mayner, but it will be well matured when you get it!!!!

[jhb171achill]

Tis indeed - it has big gantries on it when in use. A very heavily- built thing; great modelling project for someone with 9 days a week, 28 hours a day to spare! There was a whole train of special vehicles.

 

[DiveController]

Very interesting! I keep saying that older stuff has so much variety. I never envisaged that there would be something like this in use just permanent ways gangs, I suppose.  Was it actually used to lay track or more for replacement of sections after a derailment, accident, or for maintenance? Was it used on the MGWR as minister suggests and did they other companies have them? I assumed that war meant WW2 but they ages Mayner linked are from the 1920s so this was cobbled together after WW1? Things did tend to hand around for quite a while on irish rails like that GSWR brake that Richie detailed a couple of years ago. Thanks for posting and for the replies.

Link to original

http://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000303853, Mullingar 1958

Another reference here in the O' Dea collection to the Bretland re-laying on GNR in 1960 but appears to be rails being loaded onto flats to support the operations

http://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000148456

 

Edited June 13, 2019 by DiveController

[Dhu Varren]

Here is a picture of the Bretland track-laying machine at work.

 

 

[DiveController]

You can see why you'd need the 6-wheel bogies on the end where the gantry overhangs, significant axle loading there

Edited June 14, 2019 by DiveController

[minister_for_hardship]

According to Shepherd's MGWR book, it saw very little use post 1925, it was said to have been unsuitable for dealing with staggered rail joints which predominated on the former GSWR.

Ended its days as chassis for wagon no. 3408.

Edited June 13, 2019 by minister_for_hardship

[Mayner]

The  MGWR track re-laying train was designed to quickly catch up on deferred track renewal that arose during WW1.

The Dublin-Galway-Sligo & Mayo lines were re-laid in the 1920-30s, the recovered material re-used to re-lay branch lines. The train was also used to re-cover track material when the double track sections of the Midland west of Clonsilla were singled and to lift the Western Branches during the 1930s. The crane was also used for bridge replacement.

A centralised p.w. maintenance depot with overhead gantry was set up at Mullingar capable of operating 24 7 where new track panels were assembled, recovered panels refurbished for further use or dismantled for disposal, and a re-laying train to do the work on site. 

The main limitation was the re-laying train was limited to 45' rather than 60' track panels due to the length of the war surplus bogie flat wagons and probably more significantly difference in p.w. practice between the Southern and Midland sections, track was laid with staggered rail joints on the GSWR and possibly there may have been less of a need for large scale track renewal on the Southern than the Midland, the original 1906 rails were still in use on the South Wexford line at the time of closure.

[Old Blarney]

 Was it actually used to lay track or more for replacement of sections after a derailment, accident, or for maintenance?

The years of neglect from 1914 onward saw the permanent way in in dire need of replacement. The methods then in use were no longer practical, partially due to the large increases in wages, and so the Chief Engineer, Arthur Bretland turned his attention to the design of a mechanical track-laying system. The basis of this design was the prior assembly of new track in lengths and their transportation to the relaying site where the old lengths would be lifted out complete to be returned to the central depot for dismantling.

Mullingar was chosen as the location for the central prefabrication of track lengths, a portion of the extensive storage sidings being allocated to this purpose.  An overhead 65 foot span gantry was erected with a total travelling length of 500 feet. This allowed long trains of flats to be handled.  Electricity was the method used to power the operation, which was capable of unloading 240 tons of rails, or 1,500 sleepers per hour. A new mechanical track laying train was constructed, central to which was the relaying train supported  on two bogies, one four wheels, and one six wheels, the latter under the main load.

The track-layer was to see little use after the amalgamation of the MGWR into the Great Southern Railways (GSR). Most of its use was to be for the singling of it former masters lines by the GSR. According to Ernie Sheperd's book -Midland Great Wester Railway of Ireland, from which this text is compiled, the relaying crane  ended its days as a chassis for Wagon 3408.

Was it used on the MGWR as minister suggests and did they other companies have them? A variation to the design of the Bretland was used on the London and North Western Railway. I assumed that war meant WW2 but they ages Mayner linked are from the 1920s so this was cobbled together after WW1? World War I

The "Bretland Tracklayer"  train was capable of laying 900 Yards in an eight hour shift.Train"  the train consisted of a Locomotive, power van, a series of flat bogie trucksunder the cantilever, plus break van. The main drawback was it could not deal with staggered rail joints.  The Power Van was an integral part of the tracklaying train train. Steam was supplied by means of a special take-off from the train engine which thus had to be modified to work with this train. The Power van provided electric current at 100 Volts, thus enabling work to be carried out when it was dark.

I hope this information is of help on this matter?

 

  

[jhb171achill]

2 hours ago, DiveController said:

Very interesting! I keep saying that older stuff has so much variety. ..... ....

 

Exactly. Notwithstanding all the above, this is why for certain of us oul fogeys, railway interest came to an abrupt halt about 1972!

OK, I'll just finish watching the bluebottle in the nursing home window, and get me coat...........!

[heirflick]

12 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Exactly. Notwithstanding all the above, this is why for certain of us oul fogeys, railway interest came to an abrupt halt about 1972!

OK, I'll just finish watching the bluebottle in the nursing home window, and get me coat...........!

You need to go to specsavers Jhb...that bluebottle has been dead for weeks!!!

[DiveController]

Better the bluebottle .....

[Mayner]

On 6/14/2019 at 7:38 AM, DiveController said:

 

Another reference here in the O' Dea collection to the Bretland re-laying on GNR in 1960 but appears to be rails being loaded onto flats to support the operations

http://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000148456

 

Most likely unloading/sorting rails (from the closed GNR lines in Cavan & Monaghan) for re-use or scrapping rather than in connection with a re-laying operation than in connection with a re-laying operation. 

The rails in the foreground appear to be stacked for re-use and there appears to be a large pile of scrap rail in the background.

The Bretland p.w. depot & gantry was mainly used for scrapping locos and stock in CIE days, at one stage a new overhead crane was installed on the existing crane rails

 

[jhb171achill]

That's exactly it - by this time Mullingar was one of the major centres for scrapping anything from track materials to carriages, wagons and locomotives.

[Broithe]

8 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

That's exactly it - by this time Mullingar was one of the major centres for scrapping anything from track materials to carriages, wagons and locomotives.

A lot of dodgy things came out of Mullingar...     

 

...some of them only got as far as Portlaoise.       

[heirflick]

1 minute ago, Broithe said:

A lot of dodgy things came out of Mullingar...     

 

...some of them only got as far as Portlaoise.       

Dear Broithe....would you please diall 1800biteme!