1949: The Drumm Trains

[jhb171achill]

From the CIE magazine “Cuisle”, August 1949....

And a fascinating aerial view of Kingsbridge!

From the same magazine......

 

[leslie10646]

Not beating the Drum, but note the present IRRS headquarters top left of the Kingsbridge picture!

The Drumms were an fine concept, based on Dr Drumm's new type of rechargeable batteries. There are good articles on-line - the Independent blamed Dev's new government for the non-development of the concept; while The Irish Times is a bit more factual as to why Dev  may not have been so enthusiastic. Worth a look.

Like many things in railway history, they have resurfaced and everyone thinks the new idea is novel - wrong - been there before! Battery powered trains are the rage today - but they were there and close to success 90 years ago.

Seen the new Swiss-built FLIRTs in East Anglia? Hailed as a huge leap forward. But they're  familiar to Irish eyes - the motors are in a little unit in the middle - now where have I seen that before - oh yes - the GNR(I)'s articulated railcars.

Don't start me on raillbuses - when the British Railways Board went to see the Leyland thing being built, someone asked if they had studied the subject as previously evolved in Ireland - he was met with stony looks and silence.

Keep it coming JHB, keeps the brain working!

 

[hexagon789]

9 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

From the CIE magazine “Cuisle”, August 1949....

And a fascinating aerial view of Kingsbridge!

From the same magazine......

 

 

A fascinating article, they remind me somewhat of the railcars British Rail fitted out with battery equipment as a trial in the 1950s at Cowlairs in Glasgow and trialled on the Royal Deeside line from Aberdeen to Ballater alternating workings with the more usual diesel units.

Very much the same principles and the body side styling of the 1939 sets even looks quite similar.

3 hours ago, leslie10646 said:

Seen the new Swiss-built FLIRTs in East Anglia? Hailed as a huge leap forward. But they're  familiar to Irish eyes - the motors are in a little unit in the middle - now where have I seen that before - oh yes - the GNR(I)'s articulated railcars.

 

Not wishing to be pedantic and you may actually mean the same thing, but the central unit actually has only the diesel engines (I'm not sure if that's what you meant by motors), two on the 3-car and four on the 4-car, the traction motors themselves are mounted on the bogies under the driver's cabs.

The idea being that to convert to pure electric operation you only need to remove the central unit eith the diesel engines.

[leslie10646]

You're right, it's the similarity of concept which amused me - as often happened - the Irish were there first

[minister_for_hardship]

What are the numbers on the loco smokeboxes on the magazine cover about? Clearly not the running numbers.

[Galteemore]

Train description numbers -  bit like airline flight numbers. Generally only displayed like this on the occasion of a lot of trains heading to same place or over same stretch of line in a short space of time. Used much more in GB  - can imagine how confusing it would be for a main line signalman on a busy summer Saturday without them. In fact, I think a careful look at the stuff JHB has posted may reveal what the Irish occasion was that demanded such measures... Western Region image by Dick Blenkinsop btw 

 

 

Edited March 31, 2020 by Galteemore

[Lambeg man]

New 'FLIRTS' is something Greater Anglia are generally keeping stum about. They have had lots of problems with them, the key being Swiss railway features causing problems on East Anglia lines, one example being flange lubricators. They have failed to activate track circuits at AHB crossings (which they are quite a lot around here), so approach all at 20 mph! For me personally the biggest problem is the loud 'whine' noise they make when accelerating out of Norwich past where I live. The old Sprinters never made the racket the new trains do. Rant over, back to the topic! 

[DSERetc]

One morning in the late 1940s, I was Bray station to go in to Dublin.  Drumm train C or D was 'on the other side' as we called the down platform, being recharged at the charging point under the foot bridge.   Departure time arrived, but we were told there would be a delay.  I cannot remember now how long the delay was, perhaps 15 or 20  minutes.  However we reached Dublin without any more trouble.  Perhaps the longer charging time was a sign that the batteries were coming to the end of their useful lives.

Unlike the AEC railcars, there was a solid partition behind the driver so passengers could not see out ahead.   I have no memory of A or B, the flat fronted trains but I thought C & D were very modern and similar to the Southern Railway's electric Brighton Belle.

Again unlike the DART and A E C units the layout of the 2 cars were different as there was only 1st class in one.

In the early 1950s I remember travelling in a de-batteried

 

to 

[DSERetc]

Sorry. Drumm train from Harcourt Street to Bray. I sat in what had been the driver's cab.  The partition  had been removed but so bad the glass in the windows.  A semi -circular seat had been put in so you sat facing down the train.   I cannot not remember if we were pulled by a steam engine or a new A class diesel.

It was the end and the beginning of an era.

 

[jhb171achill]

Senior took this at Bray in GSR times. I think it’s being re-charged here. 

[DSERetc]

 Your photo is of Drum train D being recharged in the 'Tower' siding, beside the Martello tower.  An inspection pit was also constructed there.  There were at least 2 charging points there.  There were also one on the up platform (the near side) under the footbridge, on the down platform (the far side) under the footbridge, and  two attached to the down platform roof and one at the siding between the turntable and the up platform. It seems in later years most of the charging and inspection was done in the Tower siding.  The transformer was in a house on the down platform beside the foot bridge. I do not know if all the charging points survived until the end of the Drumm trains. 

The picture is from 'The Story of the Drumm Battery Train by Roddy Ring.,

 

Ps.  As a child I thought they were called 'DRUM' trains because there was no chu chu sound only  dum dum   -- dum dum -- dum dum. Later I learned this noise was from the jointed rail.

DESEetc

[jhb171achill]

Good stuff, DSERetc..... must consult that book indeed, have it somewhere!

[Noel]

Did they run on massive banks of lead acid batteries?

[minister_for_hardship]

1 hour ago, jhb171achill said:

Good stuff, DSERetc..... must consult that book indeed, have it somewhere!

I have it here. It opens with a satirical verse from Dublin Opinion;

 

This year to come, Dear Dr Drumm

You'll drive our cars for such a sum

That nowadays some silly blighters

Spend upon their petrol lighters

 

 

[jhb171achill]

10 minutes ago, Noel said:

Did they run on massive banks of lead acid batteries?

Something like that - not exactly sure what was in them!

[Old Blarney]

2 hours ago, Noel said:

Did they run on massive banks of lead acid batteries?

All information is copied from "The Story of the Drumm Battery Train"

Technical specifications for the Drumm cells were: all MS steel construction except that, apart from the early models, the containers were made from Firths ' Staybrite' steel sheet; Positive plates: as described for the Edison cell, nickel oxide (NO), Negative plates: prior to the first charge , MS frame or grids supporting thin sheets of pure nickel. After charge, metallic zinc deposit (ZN) covering the nickel sheet; Eloctrolyte: potassium hydroxide solution containing zinc forming a soluble potassium zincate. During the first charge given to the cells, the action of the current caused the zinc to be deposited on the negative plates to form the solid metallic zinc coating. Subsequent discharge reversed the reaction, with the zinc returning to liquid state in the electrolyte.

' The high-rate direct current required for activating the Edison positive  plates was obtained from a large motor generator set especially installed for the purpose. It was capable of charging   twelve groups at a time, at a rate of 400 amps for about four hours. The amount of hard work that went into these operations can be judged  from the fact that well over 1000 gallons of the Drumm special electrolyte was required for the 272 cells comprising the train battery, each of them something over one hundred pounds in weight. 

'After creating and installation on the train the cells were connected together in electrical "series" to form the 500 volts plus 13.5 tons battery which was to provide the motive power for Drumm Battery Train A'  (Looking at photographs of the four sets, A,B, C,D, it is my assumption that each set had four, 13.5 ton batteries)

The two separate coaches were articulated together over the central bogie which was also the power unit, with its two 300hp  600V DC motors, and the battery instrument panel,  with its ampere hour and voltmeter providing information about the battery condition, was situated in a small guards compartment. It also contained a switch which caused a conductor 'trolley' on the coach roof to elevate into contact with recharging points at the terminus platforms, allowing current to flow from electrical sub-station to battery. 

I hope this helps to answer your question - Did they run on massive banks of lead acid batteries?

Edited April 12, 2020 by Old Blarney

[Mayner]

3 hours ago, Old Blarney said:

All information is copied from "The Story of the Drumm Battery Train"

Technical specifications for the Drumm cells were: all MS steel construction except that, apart from the early models, the containers were made from Firths ' Staybrite' steel sheet; Positive plates: as described for the Edison cell, nickel oxide (NO), Negative plates: prior to the first charge , MS frame or grids supporting thin sheets of pure nickel. After charge, metallic zinc deposit (ZN) covering the nickel sheet; Eloctrolyte: potassium hydroxide solution containing zinc forming a soluble potassium zincate. During the first charge given to the cells, the action of the current caused the zinc to be deposited on the negative plates to form the solid metallic zinc coating. Subsequent discharge reversed the reaction, with the zinc returning to liquid state in the electrolyte.

' The high-rate direct current required for activating the Edison positive  plates was obtained from a large motor generator set especially installed for the purpose. It was capable of charging   twelve groups at a time, at a rate of 400 amps for about four hours. The amount of hard work that went into these operations can be judged  from the fact that well over 1000 gallons of the Drumm special electrolyte was required for the 272 cells comprising the train battery, each of them something over one hundred pounds in weight. 

'After creating and installation on the train the cells were connected together in electrical "series" to form the 500 volts plus 13.5 tons battery which was to provide the motive power for Drumm Battery Train A'  (Looking at photographs of the four sets, A,B, C,D, it is my assumption that each set had four, 13.5 ton batteries)

The two separate coaches were articulated together over the central bogie which was also the power unit, with its two 300hp  600V DC motors, and the battery instrument panel,  with its ampere hour and voltmeter providing information about the battery condition, was situated in a small guards compartment. It also contained a switch which caused a conductor 'trolley' on the coach roof to elevate into contact with recharging points at the terminus platforms, allowing current to flow from electrical sub-station to battery. 

I hope this helps to answer your question - Did they run on massive banks of lead acid batteries?

Alkaline rather than acid basically a very large Nickel Zinc battery similar in principal to today's NiMH batteries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel–zinc_battery