Question about Craven Coaches

[Mick]

Hi guys,

Hoping you all could help me out. In the lockdown I found an old Hornby set in the attic which has ignited an interest in model railways. I'm starting to look at building an Irish railway. I managed to get a Craven Coach from Spain and got a Craven Snack Car from Mark's Models. I'll be looking to add another craven or two if they pop up online. 

Just a quick question, I'm planning on getting a class 71 to pull my 2 craven coaches. (And other Irish stock as it's added) I'm looking at the class 71 in the attached picture. Would it have been a loco that pulled craven coaches? 

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Mick

[MD220]

Yes, absolutely

[Georgeconna]

Yes it would Mick.

[Mick]

Great stuff lads, thanks for the help! I'll have a look around and order one. I'll no doubt be back with more silly questions!

[jhb171achill]

A two coach train is perfect as an authentic model of a Ballina branch train in the 1990s / early 2000s. You also need a van to go on the back of it - either a "Dutch" van or a "BR" van.

Get a few fertiliser / cement / 42ft flat wagons to go behind it when it's hauling freight instead.

[Mick]

Thanks for the reply Jhb. I take it BR is a breaking coach? Do they look like regular coaches or are they the small coaches that have a little cabin/shed and a roof over it? Sorry if it's a silly question. 

I'll look at a few of the 42ft flat wagons maybe pick up a few of the Guiness wagons when they come out! 

[Rob]

The 071 class loco is a good choice for that era, Mick as it would have pulled the Cravens you have but also the Mark 2 & Mark 3 sets that would have been around in that era in case you expand in the future.

It also would have been used for freight like the Container 42' flats & Tara Mines Wagons etc so it is versatile but accurate!

Something like this (below) would have been found at the back (or front) with the Cravens during this era too-  the BR van referred to above.

Hope that helps and good luck!

Rob.

Edited May 20, 2020 by Rob
Photo

[Mick]

Thanks for the picture Rob, I was thinking something entirely different.  I'll have to keep an eye out for one. I have the craven with the orange bar above the windows. Would there have been a specific one in that livery or would this have been one they used for all of the craven versions? 

[Rob]

The one in the photo above would have been the ex BR type Generating Steam Van which would have been around in the era of the 071 in the loco livery in your photo, mid 1990's - 2006.

The 'Dutch' type that was mentioned above would be the type below, maybe what you mean?

That would be before my era so some of the others here would be able to advise on that side of it but they would have both ran with the Cravens.

Edited May 20, 2020 by Rob
Photo

[jhb171achill]

The Cravens only ever carried two liveries - and even that was just two slight variations of the same one. 

If you start with black all over, then put tan / orange on both sides below window level, that's the basics. Until the early 1990s, the only other thing was a single 6-inch wide white line above window levels. After that, there was (a) an additional thinner white line below the windows, and (b) both a white AND an orange line above window level, but the earlier variation lived on with some coaches carrying well into the mid (maybe late) 1990s.

The BR van pictured above was a separate variation - these got the white line below, but not the orange line above. The reason was that they are based on a British Mk. 1 design, which were lower in height than Irish stock - so there "wasn't room" for the extra orange line above!

There is photographic evidence of at least one Craven carrying this variation, but almost certainly not for long.

The livery on your loco is early 2000s era, by which time all Cravens in use had the orange line above, and second white line below the windows.

Both of the vans pictured above were in use the same time as your loco, so you could find either at the end of a train.

[Noel]

2 hours ago, Mick said:

Thanks for the reply Jhb. I take it BR is a breaking coach? Do they look like regular coaches or are they the small coaches that have a little cabin/shed and a roof over it? Sorry if it's a silly question. 

I'll look at a few of the 42ft flat wagons maybe pick up a few of the Guiness wagons when they come out! 

They are not a brake coach per say, they are for train heating and train electricity, the older ones nicknamed GSV (Generating Steam Van), modern ones that ran with mk2, mk3 stock were called EGV (electricity generating van). Cravens could just as easily run with the shorter Dutch GSV or the longer ex-BR Mk1 GSV. Pics below. Often on some rural branch services there was a single craven and one heating van. Silverfox models do kits and RTR of both types of GSV, or for an ex-BR Mk1 GSV you could kit bash a Hornby, Lima or Bachman BSK brake van into a CIE GSV with some plastic cutting, and shutting, filing and filling.

ex-BR Mk1 GSV 

 

Early Dutch GSV

Edited May 20, 2020 by Noel

[Mick]

Ah thanks for the replies Noel and Jhb. I'll check out silverfox models for one. The top one there looks like the one I'll be after. Love the vents/chimneys on top of it. I've learned so much already! Can't wait until the loco arrives! 

[Noel]

3 hours ago, Mick said:

Ah thanks for the replies Noel and Jhb. I'll check out silverfox models for one. The top one there looks like the one I'll be after. Love the vents/chimneys on top of it. I've learned so much already! Can't wait until the loco arrives! 

Hi Mick. The top one was a kit bash conversion I did of a Lima BR Mk1 BSK a few years ago, but SF do a kit and RTR.

[Mick]

Ah its a beautiful coach, I haven't built up enough bits to do a kit bash, and don't have an air brush for painting so probably not the best to do a DIY job. I'll probably just order one of the RTR silverfoxes. That is a beautiful coach though! Really nice down to the small details! 

[JasonB]

2 hours ago, Mick said:

Ah its a beautiful coach, I haven't built up enough bits to do a kit bash, and don't have an air brush for painting so probably not the best to do a DIY job. I'll probably just order one of the RTR silverfoxes. That is a beautiful coach though! Really nice down to the small details! 

Hi Mick, welcome to the site. Unless you're entirely confident in tackling some kit bashing, I'd suggest avoiding it for the time being. Sometimes taking on projects like that can end up costing more in the long run. 

The ex BR generator van by Silverfox, which Rob has suggested above, is a decent enough model. It can be a little pricey depending on who or where you get it from, so look around before buying. The detail is no way near what you'll get on one of Murphy's Cravens, but it does the job, and looks well behind an 071.  

[Noel]

On 5/22/2020 at 7:38 PM, JasonB said:

Hi Mick, welcome to the site. Unless you're entirely confident in tackling some kit bashing, I'd suggest avoiding it for the time being. Sometimes taking on projects like that can end up costing more in the long run. 

The ex BR generator van by Silverfox, which Rob has suggested above, is a decent enough model. It can be a little pricey depending on who or where you get it from, so look around before buying. The detail is no way near what you'll get on one of Murphy's Cravens, but it does the job, and looks well behind an 071.  

Yip agree, the RTR from Silverfox, which I also have will look great running with a craven or two.

[DiveController]

Hi Mike, you should probably put up a picture of the cravens you have or the number and just confirm it has the double white stripe. The IE log began to be applied in 1994 onward to the 071 class locos

Edited July 8, 2020 by DiveController

[Railer]

There was still at least one Cravens in the CIE single with stripe livery up till 1995 and maybe into 96. 

[Railer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxyS9QXKpJ4

The youtube link above is from March 1996 and features a CIE livery Cravens in the set.

Edited July 6, 2020 by Railer