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David Holman

H class vans

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Lots of pictures, but can't seem to find any dimensions for the classic H. Have the Alphagraphix Bulleid underframe, so know length and width, while presume height of body was seven feet? Anyone got a basic drawing, please?

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Appears to be 7' height at sides, 8' in the centre, with the radius of roof being at the centre point of where the body meets the bufferbeam. I have a drawing here I did from ages ago, but I'd not be mad trusting of it ! 

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Thank you both! Seven feet seems to be a standard height for post war vans both sides of the water. The width of the doors would be helpful, as everything else can be worked out from that, so yes please.

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Here you are David..., Width across both doors - 5’

Width of side panels 3’ (buffer end) and 3’6 (next to doors). When I made mine the first attempt was 3’ short as I’d omitted a panel! 

Van end 8’ across divided into 3 equal panels 
Main body 7’ high -7’9 at highest point on van end 

And lots and lots of bolt heads.....

David 
 

Edited by Galteemore

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David and others

I have a Copyrighted 1964 drawing by "The Irish Model Railway Company" - No.3 in their series.

I have an idea it may be one of Herbie Richards' drawings and as he has kindly helped me with other drawings, I don't feel I can copy it here willy nilly.

However, it appears to be 3ft6in from rail to buffer and 7ft 11in to the crown of the curve of the roof..

I'm pretty sure that this was the basis of my kit.

Leslie

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Here’s a few shots of my effort ....set against a 7mm scale rule. I see what Leslie said about the buffer height but if you’re using the Alphagraphix chassis, Roger will have made that decision for you already! The Slaters wheels may be slightly smaller than the strict scale original, which may explain any discrepancy.

402929AF-9D56-4259-905E-3D1C753F499F.jpeg

7BE221C3-8348-4AB9-B5DD-2FE07AEF58EE.jpeg

DBD318B1-3113-418B-9240-8C7B21693B11.jpeg

Edited by Galteemore

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A fine model! See what you mean about the rivets, while an order to Eileen's will be needed as my store of microstrip is getting patchy and not likely to pick up supplies at exhibitions any time soon ...

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Just discovered I have a drawing after all! Wasn't labelled and somehow got into my MGW file...

All the same, many thanks for the help, it really is what this forum is about.

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Looking at photos, it seems there are a fair few variations in the H vans and especially compared to the drawings I have. Not surprising I suppose given the number built and period involved. For example, see that the fitted versions have a brake wheel, rather than a handle, while the variation of plates and rivets on the body sides is considerable too.

  For example, the picture of one being constructed at Inchicore in the Great Southern Railway album seems to have no rivets in the body, only on the strapping. Indeed, I wonder what the former were for - internal strapping maybe?

 Either way, there are masses of them and building a model is proving far more challenging than a wooden van! If I was building more than one, then resin casting would be essential. Mine is going to be an early, unfitted version, so any excuses to limit the number of rivets will be gratefully received.

Edited by David Holman

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Over the years I have been looking closely at  pictures of CIE goods wagons in an attempt to capture the atmosphere of loose coupled trains of the seventies and have come to the conclusion that between detail and livery differences seldom were any two were alike. 

Edited by patrick

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Having studied H vans a lot of late I agree! I wonder if the main body material varied over time too - as some seem to have acquired external reinforcement panels on the ends. 

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1 hour ago, David Holman said:

Looking at photos, it seems there are a fair few variations in the H vans and especially compared to the drawings I have. Not surprising I suppose given the number built and period involved. For example, see that the fitted versions have a brake wheel, rather than a handle, while the variation of plates and rivets on the body sides is considerable too.

  For example, the picture of one being constructed at Inchicore in the Great Southern Railway album seems to have no rivets in the body, only on the strapping. Indeed, I wonder what the former were for - internal strapping maybe?

GSR vans were a different animal. The internally-framed ones had horizontal planking on the outside, and were possibly somewhat smaller, from memory - slightly shorter wheelbase, I think? The GSR's forerunners to the "H" vans had a similar frame but horizontal planking. Many were still about until the early 60s.

The actual "H" vans starts appearing in the 1950s and as others have noted, thousands were built until the early to mid 1960s. But not to be confused with the GSR types. Some older (and lower, shorter or both) vans of ex-GSWR or Midland origin were still to be seen in the late 1950s.

The brake wheels appeared in the 1960s.

51 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

Having studied H vans a lot of late I agree! I wonder if the main body material varied over time too - as some seem to have acquired external reinforcement panels on the ends. 

Yes, they'd get patched from time to time. I saw one in Kilkenny goods yard with planked doors, doubtless off an old GSR van. Come to think of it, I've a notion that wasn't a one-off.

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1 hour ago, patrick said:

Over the years I have been looking closely at  pictures of CIE goods wagons in an attempt to capture the atmosphere of loose coupled trains of the seventies and have come to the conclusion that between detail and livery differences seldom were any two were alike. 

Yes, like anything there were variations, though not as many as one might think - really, the main differences were varying levels of wear and tear, thus weathering.

Livery wise there were but five variations:

1. Any built before approx 1954/5 - all grey with eau-de-nil painted flying snail & number.

2. Repaints of the above and new-builds between approximately 1954 and 1958 - all grey with white painted FS & No.

3. From 1958/8 onwards, white FS & numbers, but the FS is now STENCILLED. A lighter grey appearing from about 1960/1.

4. After 1963, lighter grey with CIE "roundel", which was initially all white, but by the late 60s, White let's surrounded by a tan "broken wheel".

5. After approx. 1970 all brown with all white "roundel" and number.

In all cases, whether grey or brown, the wain was entirely painted this colour. Newly painted brown wagons stood out with their brown roofs, but exhaust from locos and weathering often toned these down to LOOK mid-greyish.

Many wagons - I would guess up to a quarter - remained grey to the end (mid-70s), some even still with stencilled "snails". 

In modelling variations, a pair of wooden planked doors on one would be a suitable structural difference - maybe just one wooden door!

From close inspection the type of panelling they had looked and felt to me like some sort of very heavy duty marine ply.

Towards the end, from memory most had the brake wheel.

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A small number were so turned out early on for running with passenger trains. 

Edited by Galteemore

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