Irish N Gauge

[Drew]

I'm sure I'm not the only one who saw this.  May be rubbish but I'll let the viewers decide on this auction lot.   I hope I am allowed post links. 

https://bid.excaliburauctions.com/auctions/7478/excali10025/lot-details/7b724c44-6398-4236-827d-abd3017e7737

 

[jhb171achill]

Interesting - I was unaware of those.... "N" gauge is the "next big thing" for RTR Irish stuff......hopefully!

Given availability of even a few basics, it is a route I would have chosen, simply to get more into less space. I looked at the Shapeways stuff in that scale, but it's far, far too crude - or was when I looked at it, anyway.

[Midland Man]

There is a lot of stuff there about 540 items. Great find. Plus the prices are outrageously cheep.

Just now, jhb171achill said:

Interesting - I was unaware of those.... "N" gauge is the "next big thing" for RTR Irish stuff......hopefully!

Given availability of even a few basics, it is a route I would have chosen, simply to get more into less space. I looked at the Shapeways stuff in that scale, but it's far, far too crude - or was when I looked at it, anyway.

It is weird to sea that the gives are getting smaller. Before long it will be Z scale so the only use for paint brushes it to make puddles.

 

[WRENNEIRE]

Not that cheap man
These are opening bids, by auctions end they will have raised dramatically
And 24% commission on hammer price + P&P

 

[GNRi1959]

Did any of this stuff ever run in Ireland?

10 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

Interesting - I was unaware of those.... "N" gauge is the "next big thing" for RTR Irish stuff......hopefully!

Given availability of even a few basics, it is a route I would have chosen, simply to get more into less space. I looked at the Shapeways stuff in that scale, but it's far, far too crude - or was when I looked at it, anyway.

JB, I plan on enjoying N gauge for what it is - go Irish and it's going nowhere!

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, GNRi1959 said:

Did any of this stuff ever run in Ireland?

 

Tony, if you mean those carriages as shown, no - they are standard British Rail Mk 1s in an approximate CIE livery.  

[Robert Shrives]

3 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Interesting - I was unaware of those.... "N" gauge is the "next big thing" for RTR Irish stuff......hopefully!

Given availability of even a few basics, it is a route I would have chosen, simply to get more into less space. I looked at the Shapeways stuff in that scale, but it's far, far too crude - or was when I looked at it, anyway.

Hi Some of the shapeways designs showing age but in latest materials possible better , I got an 071 but lines on bonnet sides to hard to sand , it has ended up as a class 49 BR large blue fantasy livery. The 6 cement bubbles I got at same time are on parkside dundas N soc chassis kits and added etched details cobbled from leftovers and some signal ladders and plastic rod for pipeworks - all still works in progress and getting there slowly.   N gauge Mk3s can be repainted from dapol but doors wrong of course and Adam Warr did some vinyls as well. Mk2s from same artwork source but on your own for steam genbrakes . A dutch steam van on Shapeways.     Also 201 IIRC  for a dapol 66 as easiest to cut about having plastic chassis parts.  Given gauge at 9mm is narrow to better 10.5  its all impressionist art really. 

Robert     

[Mayner]

The Lima Irish N Gauge steam loco and passenger coaches were British outline models in CIE livery introduced in the late 70s early 80s.

The Lima coaches and wagons were reasonable models by the standards of the time, but I would not recommend the locos if you want a working model. The motor, traction tyre and power pick up system was pretty poor and would cease to run reliably or haul anything  after a couple of weeks use. 

I replaced the tender drive in a Lima o-6-0 with the chassis from a Fleischmann 0-6-0 diesel shunter which transformed the running and haulage ability.

[GNRi1959]

In that case, why in earth would you commit to buy nothing more than an expensive CIE waterslide badge? My move to N gauge will be purely N gauge, I've no plans to start readying, respraying or scratch building anything else.

[WRENNEIRE]

Correct me if I am wrong but I think Lima N Gauge is slightly different to mainstream N gauge?
I know on the 3F the tender is overscaled to accommodate the motor
 

[Robert Shrives]

Yes Lima N has origins with Wrenn N and this was  merrily overscale to allow motors to fit but had under length trainset coaches , some wagon mouldings were very good in details but oversize.  The UK class 31 diesel could with care, razor saw and a little prayer be converted to a near scale model.  Albeit needing a brand new chassis .  The Deltic was a laugh being too short but way to wide and high with tiny bogies.  It also ran poorly. There was a german V60 given the UK class 17 makeover and a dock shunter that was based on a USA Plymouth switcher IIRC.  The 3F was like the Deltic in many ways.    All worth collecting to show how times and tech has changed but for anything else well each to their own. 

Wheels were great for cutting food !  Track was code 80 and utter rubbish.  

Robert   

[WRENNEIRE]

Wrenn N was just Lima N rebadged, the Wrenn Brothers took up the agency and then just badged the Lima models with Wrenn stickers in some cases

This is a Lima box with a Wrenn card insert

 

This was a made for purpose Wrenn N box

 

They also sold O Gauge Lima 
Usually with just a small Wrenn sticker on the box

 

 

 

[Robert Shrives]

Hi Did the Lima N have any connection with Rivarossi in the first instance ? My tiny mind is trying to tell me it did but you will know better than me !

Robert 

[WRENNEIRE]

Not to my knowledge Rob, Rivarossi was a stand alone company, no ties with Lima although Italian

[Robert Shrives]

1 hour ago, WRENNEIRE said:

Not to my knowledge Rob, Rivarossi was a stand alone company, no ties with Lima although Italian

Thanks, I will  slide back under my rock !!    I now have 6 N bubbles with pipe work glued on just to fit tail to the large outlet pipe on platform. With heavy weathering no need for decals !  The 111 now is 49 356 Fantasy  loco.  

Robert 

[Mayner]

During the 70s the Rivarossi N & HO Italian diesel locomotive https://picclick.it/N-Gauge-Atlas-Rivarossi-D341-FS-Italian-Diesel-392010191981.html was the standard rtr donor for CIE C and B201 class conversions. The Rivarossi N gauge locos were reasonably good runners by the standards of the time with simple reliable mechanisms, Minitrix was pretty much the gold standard in terms of engineering and reliability but had nothing really suitable for an Irish conversion.

The Lima BR N Gauge MK1 coaches were oddly proportioned designed to a composite scale  like the British Trix OO gauge coaches of the same era. The coaches appear to have been to Continental & US 1:160 scale length and British 1:148 width. The Lima HO scale 4 F was close to HO in length and OO in width.

[MikeO]

John

You made the following comments

"The Lima Irish N Gauge steam loco and passenger coaches were British outline models in CIE livery introduced in the late 70s early 80s.

The Lima coaches and wagons were reasonable models by the standards of the time, but I would not recommend the locos if you want a working model. The motor, traction tyre and power pick up system was pretty poor and would cease to run reliably or haul anything  after a couple of weeks use. 

I replaced the tender drive in a Lima o-6-0 with the chassis from a Fleischmann 0-6-0 diesel shunter which transformed the running and haulage ability."

 

With regard to the hauling power, my experience is slightly different if I have the same type of loco being described. See photos 1 to 3 below.

I have one on loan from a friend with the intention of making it vaguely Irish. I thought it resembled an SG3 so made a few changes to the original. It has always been a reasonably good, if noisy, runner. 

In terms of hauling power, today I had it run around my temporary layout in my garage which is 3.6m (12ft) long. It pull 10 coaches with only a little slippage staring mainly because it had not reached its optimum power setting for starting off. This is usually about speed step 6( even light engined) on my controller. I ran it around the layout several times, each loop being about 7.2m(24ft), firstly with 7 coaches then with the 10 in photo 4. The running time in total was probably only about 5 minutes. Can't show the video I took as I do not have a YouTube account.

 

While it is fine for short runs such as this longer runs of about 20 minutes noon stop would likely be too much for it. At several exhibitions I have had it come to a sudden stop. Next day it is back to normal.

 

MikeO

 

1 side view

2 and 3 shows the maker's name

 

4 Loco and 10 coaches

 

 

•  

[Mayner]

My comments about the Lima N gauge locos are based on my experience with operating several different types of Lima N gauge locos during the 1970's  including the BR AL1 overhead electric, Brush Type 2, Irish 0-6-0 and German V100/BR Clayton.

The Lima V100/ painted dark blue to resemble the GNR MAK was the most reliable of my Lima diesels, these locos used the same 4w chassis with central pancake motor used in the 4w diesel shunter with pony truck at each end to resemble a double bogie loco.

The Lima tender drive appears to be mechanically similar to the V100 and diesel shunter, with a reliable power pick up system and no traction tyres.

I may have replaced the 4F tender drive with the chassis from a Fleischmann Piccolo 7218 diesel shunter because of motor failure or to achieve reliable slow speed running rather than poor power pick up or pulling power, I don't remember the exact circumstances as I scrapped the loco over 30 years ago.

The armature of the pancake motor used in the Lima N gauge locos have a tendency to fail when the commutator work loose on the motor armature shaft and breaks away from the armature windings.

The problems with power pick up and poor haulage power mainly affected bogie diesels and electrics, with a single motor bogie and pick up on the un-powered bogie, performance became increasingly poor after a couple of weeks service, with slipping as traction tyres worked loose on the power bogies and increasingly erratic running due to the poor design and choice of materials used in the power pick up system.

To be fair the Lima N gauge locos were probably no worse and in some cases better than similar priced N gauge locos produced at the time  for the American and UK markets.

 

 

 

[WRENNEIRE]

Have a look at the prices achieved for these models, 

Lot 19 £170 
Lot 20 £130
Lot 21  £55
Commission is between 24% & 30% + VAT depending on the platform used to bid
P&P would be around £20 to ROI

Expensive little yokes!

 

[mphoey]

prices were not bad for something that doesent pop up often