Brexit? - Hattons DDP (delivery duty paid)

[Noel]

What brexit? Hattons delivered two small orders within 72hrs, duty and vat paid by them apparently!  Postman didn't want to charge Irish VAT on top of the order. This was a new one on me (ie DDP=delivery duty paid), but it looks like post brexit Hattons and some other UK retailers remain in play for Irish customers. Also got a delivery from Rail-tec, again no problems, no vat to be paid this end. Haven't tried Peter's spares yet nor gaugemaster as it seems most uk retailers are out of stock of Kadee draft gear box couplings. Anyway the predictions of doom and gloom may be unfounded unless I was lucky, but all three deliveries were accompanied by customs declarations which presumably facilitated this. Oh yea the order was for some scenic materials for Gort.

[DJ Dangerous]

50 minutes ago, Noel said:

What brexit? Hattons delivered two small orders within 72hrs, duty and vat paid by them apparently!  Postman didn't want to charge Irish VAT on top of the order. This was a new one on me (ie DDP=delivery duty paid), but it looks like post brexit Hattons and some other UK retailers remain in play for Irish customers. Also got a delivery from Rail-tec, again no problems, no vat to be paid this end. Haven't tried Peter's spares yet nor gaugemaster as it seems most uk retailers are out of stock of Kadee draft gear box couplings. Anyway the predictions of doom and gloom may be unfounded unless I was lucky, but all three deliveries were accompanied by customs declarations which presumably facilitated this. Oh yea the order was for some scenic materials for Gort.

This BrExit!

No frikkin' sausages in Iceland!!!!!

Empty shelves throughout the shop!

 

 

Edited February 9, 2021 by DJ Dangerous

[Mike 84C]

On our local news, Pig farmers are really wound up because they cannot sell their pigs at contracted weights so are getting less money. Meanwhile UK supermarkets are importing pigs from the EU and UK pigs are still on farms unable to be exported to the EU. Are these the economics of madness? all the pollution involved?  Road transport has always been too cheap in my experience.

[Broithe]

13 minutes ago, Mike 84C said:

On our local news, Pig farmers are really wound up because they cannot sell their pigs at contracted weights so are getting less money. Meanwhile UK supermarkets are importing pigs from the EU and UK pigs are still on farms unable to be exported to the EU. Are these the economics of madness? all the pollution involved?  Road transport has always been too cheap in my experience.

There are some bonkers issues going on in food "economics" for many years now.

I remember two facts emerging during some sort of chicken-based emergency a few years ago.

At that time:
1, The two largest sources of chicken imports to the UK were Thailand and Brazil - neither seems handily placed to me.
2, The UK exported almost exactly the same amount of chicken to the Netherlands as the Netherlands exported to the UK.

[murphaph]

Hattons are vat registered in half a dozen EU countries now because their turnover in each country exceeds the threshold.

I have yet to order anything from them since the first of January though. Hoping that when I do it goes as smoothly.

The German post office should be well used to this as a lot of Swiss firms sell into Germany and must also register for German vat. Fingers crossed.

Unfortunately it's really the small traders, selling absolutely unique items that are hardest hit by the new regulations.

Edit: the regulations aren't new. They are just being applied to the UK as a third country for the first time.

Edited February 10, 2021 by murphaph

[Mayner]

I completed a Gst (local version of VAT) return in connection with one of my businesses (nothing to do with trains) recently and was surprised to find than an Irish registered computer software supplier was registered for Gst in New Zealand.

As Murphah noted the big challenge is for the small suppliers many of whom are not registered for VAT in the UK because of low turnover, however the flip size is that a number manufacture and sell unique or bespoke items and their sales are less price sensitive than a small supplier selling more generic items.

One of the interesting challenges for me is whether its worth registering JM Design for VAT in Ireland and the UK or using a platform such as e-bay for future sales of rtr models and kits. The business is already registered for GST in New Zealand which allows me to claim back GST charged on locally sourced and imported components and export the models at 0% GST.

This allows me to supply kits at a lower cost than possible if the business was not registered and eliminates the issue of double taxation if a model is stopped by Customs upon arrival in Ireland or the UK. While the majority of JM Design kits manage to fly through under the Customs radar, customers are not exactly happy when a package is stopped by customs and they have to pay VAT and clearance costs.

[StevieB]

We live in interesting times. Despite what Boris said, it is not a free trade agreement between UK and EU as most of us would understand it. It’s going to be a ‘buyer beware’ situation from now on to find out whether you are paying the retailer all taxes and duties or the postman. My wife and I found out a long time ago that it’s so much nicer to pay everything upfront rather than getting a demand from the postman for money before delivery takes place. Nevertheless, you have to feel for the little man in all this. Politicians never life easy!

Stephen

[murphaph]

57 minutes ago, Mayner said:

One of the interesting challenges for me is whether its worth registering JM Design for VAT in Ireland and the UK or using a platform such as e-bay for future sales of rtr models and kits. The business is already registered for GST in New Zealand which allows me to claim back GST charged on locally sourced and imported components and export the models at 0% GST.

This allows me to supply kits at a lower cost than possible if the business was not registered and eliminates the issue of double taxation if a model is stopped by Customs upon arrival in Ireland or the UK. While the majority of JM Design kits manage to fly through under the Customs radar, customers are not exactly happy when a package is stopped by customs and they have to pay VAT and clearance costs.

Personally I prefer it if sellers just deduct the vat at home and export the item ex vat so I have a sporting chance of the item flying under the radar. Smaller, lighter items, even if the declared value exceeds the €22 threshold seem to often get through German customs without interference.

My latest such delivery was some containers from c=rail. Declared value £52. Green German customs sticker "exempt from customs inspection" and just delivered to my door as usual. The weight plays a big role in whether or not a parcel gets properly checked in my experience.

If stuff is sent through the regular post to Germany then it's going to be Deutsche Post/DHL that pays the customs on my behalf and they only charge a €6 handling fee. I like to take my chances but in other countries this fee can be much higher and customs may be much more thorough so those guys are probably more likely to want a supplier to register for vat locally.

I think both An Post and Royal Mail charge more than €6 so I wouldn't want to speak for anyone living in Ireland or the UK.

[DJ Dangerous]

4 minutes ago, murphaph said:

but in other countries this fee can be much higher and customs may be much more thorough so those guys are probably more likely to want a supplier to register for vat locally.

 

Yuuuuuuuuuuup!

DHL and their €40 handling fee per parcel!

[Georgeconna]

12 hours ago, DJ Dangerous said:

This BrExit!

No frikkin' sausages in Iceland!!!!!

Empty shelves throughout the shop!

 

 

 

 

Shippers and imports here are not aware of the red Tape, We have had to stop loading food now as they are causing too much issues to clear to due lack of information on paperwork and information from importers knowing what to do.

Have a look at the crap on the link below that you have to do now to get something that you imported in December from the UK with no controls to the  hoops you have to go through now. I expect it will all settle down at some stage but it will get worse before hand.

https://www.gov.ie/en/campaigns/af50d-agriculture-and-brexit/

(Toilet Rolls are OK for now)

 

[Noel]

8 minutes ago, Georgeconna said:

(Toilet Rolls are OK for now)

Phew! 

[Broithe]

1 hour ago, murphaph said:

I think both An Post and Royal Mail charge more than €6 so I wouldn't want to speak for anyone living in Ireland or the UK.

Royal Mail charged me £8 for the privilege of them 'handling' the £3 tax that was due on the item.

[irishthump]

Not good news for everybody it would seem, is this a member of this parish by any chance?

Online shopping from the UK delivers financial shocks (irishtimes.com)

Personally, I've abandoned the idea of ordering ANYTHING from the UK. I've oretty much sourced anything I need from EU countries. 

[irishthump]

On 9/2/2021 at 8:59 PM, Noel said:

What brexit? Hattons delivered two small orders within 72hrs, duty and vat paid by them apparently!  Postman didn't want to charge Irish VAT on top of the order. This was a new one on me (ie DDP=delivery duty paid), but it looks like post brexit Hattons and some other UK retailers remain in play for Irish customers. Also got a delivery from Rail-tec, again no problems, no vat to be paid this end. Haven't tried Peter's spares yet nor gaugemaster as it seems most uk retailers are out of stock of Kadee draft gear box couplings. Anyway the predictions of doom and gloom may be unfounded unless I was lucky, but all three deliveries were accompanied by customs declarations which presumably facilitated this. Oh yea the order was for some scenic materials for Gort.

Personally Noel, I think you've just been fortunate. The Rail-Tec stuff could easily slip under the radar as transfers come in a flat envelope and as the article I linked to above shows Hattons are'nt exactly a safe bet. To be honest I can't see it getting any better, especially when the transition period ends in July.

At the risk of getting political, to hell to with it, I've lost interest in the whole sh@t storm. They voted for it, let them stew. I'll buy from the EU and the world will spin on.

[murphaph]

The article was written in the immediate aftermath though. The author ordered items before the end of the transition period and was charged UK VAT as was the law at the time.

He then got stung again as the items were shipped in the new year. Hattons should have handled orders at that time better. I asked them how they'd handle orders (my 121s were pre-orders with them) that were billed in late December. I never got a satisfactory reply. I was just lucky they arrived in stock in time.

Now I would expect it to work fine as they are shipping it Irish vat and duty paid. Brexit hasn't ruined Hattons EU sales because of one thing: Model railway items are tariff free. They mostly only have to worry about vat. Otherwise the rules of origin would cripple them like it's crippling online clothing retailers for example because very little of what they sell is made in the UK.

[Georgeconna]

On 9/2/2021 at 8:59 PM, Noel said:

What brexit? Hattons delivered two small orders within 72hrs, duty and vat paid by them apparently!  Postman didn't want to charge Irish VAT on top of the order. This was a new one on me (ie DDP=delivery duty paid), but it looks like post brexit Hattons and some other UK retailers remain in play for Irish customers. Also got a delivery from Rail-tec, again no problems, no vat to be paid this end. Haven't tried Peter's spares yet nor gaugemaster as it seems most uk retailers are out of stock of Kadee draft gear box couplings. Anyway the predictions of doom and gloom may be unfounded unless I was lucky, but all three deliveries were accompanied by customs declarations which presumably facilitated this. Oh yea the order was for some scenic materials for Gort.

VAT was probably on the UK invoice / price as DDP would cover that normally hence why you were not asked for the extra for quid.