DJ Dangerous

It probably would have taken a few years to re-brand everything, anyhow.

That's good, so a nice ten-year run for that livery, so.

Ah, sure mixing them like that just makes it even more authentic. A few CIE's mixed in with the IR's for the late eighties or early nineties, and a few IR's mixed in with the IE's for the early IE era.

Murphy Models 233 in Enterprise livery has full yellow faces, whereas 230 in the same livery just has the yellow strips. How long did that Enterprise livery, worn by MM 230 and 233, actually last?

And IRM are down to the last twenty odd RPSI models, which is fantastic news for the RPSI and the market! I have a far better idea: edible inner packaging, ie little bags of Tayto!

Sorry, Flangey, offence was not my intent. I'm just looking to see why retailers who don't sell many specialist items are so taboo, and so bad. I'm sure there are many who will eschew Tesco, Super Value, Spar, Centra et al, and buy directly from the farmer, and I'm guessing that that is the core value that spawns the mentality that a "box-shifter" is bad. I have to confess, I buy from Marks Models, Hattons, Kernow, Frizinghall, and obviously IRM, so I don't do anything personally to support the non-box-shifters. JHB, cheques? Really? Are they those magical things that my grandparents had, where you could just write a random figure on a little stub of paper and it turned into money?

How does anybody know if one company would struggle to sell a model that another company released 10 / 15 / 20 years previously? Obviously, a smaller production run means worse economies of scale, so is a terrible idea from a business perspective unless you could sell at a higher price. The 141's / 181's cost €100 or so when new and the 071's cost €140 odd when new, so technically, yes, you can sell them for a much higheI price nowadays - €190 for the A Class and 121's. Even if that increase were entirely eaten up by improvements, inflation, exchange rates etc, and we say that the sale price is the same from a job point of view, why would they not sell? The market is huge compared to what it was. IRM have just sent out an email regarding the 121's, saying: "We will not be getting further stocks of some of these particular liveries and running numbers in stock, and they are also sold out at Murphy Models in some cases, so once they're gone, they're gone!" Hattons have the IR 121's sold out on pre-order several weeks now. 6000 odd locos selling out like this, it's insane, it's incredible, and it's change. I know that it'd be lovely to be nostalgic and protect the exclusivity of a collectors item forever, but the market will speak, will change and will grow. Nobody really knows what stage of saturation the market is at today, we can only speculate, and I guarantee that nobody knows where it'll be in five years time. Sure nobody knows where they'll be themselves in five years time.

Will you be sprinkling cotton wool all over the layout?

Placed an order a few weeks ago and Des was very prompt, accurate and professional to deal with.

So awesome!

Damn, I'm jealous!

I guess being as lucky as you are is probably the exception, rather than the rule. I would assume that most people face the choice of a decent trek to a model shop, or buying online. So a "box-shifter" is a retailer who doesn't sell many specialist / niche items, basically.

Thank you. The advent of the internet / online shopping is the real enemy of the little guy. There'll always be a bigger guy! So Marks Models are a "box-shifter" too?

I've seen the term "box-shifters" bandied about a lot on the forum over the years. I understand that Hattons are one retailer who fall into this category. Who are the other "box-shifters"? What damage do they do to the hobby itself? I imagine that they make it difficult for smaller traders who have worse economies of scale, but that's the same for every market, and isn't really something that they set out to do. If they are so bad, why do manufacturers supply them? Looking at the 121 for example, this must be the fastest selling Irish loco to date, out of stock on pre-order etc. If this hadn't been supplied to the "box-shifters", there'd have been more stock available through smaller, more expensive sellers, and maybe it would have slowed down the sales. I'm not sure how that's a good thing for the hobby itself, but would obviously pacify anybody who missed out on pre-ordering one, so may benefit a few individuals.

You said that when the next Irish loco is released, it will cost €400 a pop, and will likely only sell 100 units of each livery. That's what that meant. But, now I'm confused. Are you saying that for the next Irish loco after the A, they will have a massive price and won't sell well? Or that if they have a reasonable price, they will sell like the A's and a larger batch should be run to allow the market dynamics to do work naturally? Sorry, that bit wasn't clear to me.

Hattons website is showing all three IR 121's as out of stock, and Marks Models are showing one of them out of stock. These are selling like hot cakes! I see several of them de-listed completely on the IRM website, not just sold-out but vanished into oblivion.

Oh my God, you're doing the B&I Ferry!!!

I don't mean that we'll have another loco next year, or even the year after, but within the next few years I'm sure we will. Hence I mentioned 071's etc going onto the IRM roadmap in the first place.

Again, I respectfully disagree. The market is growing, not contracting, and is not the same market that it was ten years ago. There is already a gap for motive power, soon to be filled by the A. Saying that an 071 will not be made in the future, for a growing market, starved of said 071's, does not make any sense. Imagine if there had only been one release of each British outline loco over the last ten or fifteen years. The market is bigger there, duh, but saying that nobody can release a loco in the future because somebody released one in the past... Also, releasing rolling stock and no locomotives? I mean, seriously? Very true what you say on eBay, the big-spenders vs. price-gougers are not a true representation of the market, but taken into account with the current lack of available motive power, it becomes an indicator of where things shall lie in a few years. I could be wrong, honestly, maybe the IRM lads will retire after the A, maybe PM will retire after the 121, and maybe we'll go back to the days of being content with orange and black Hymeks. Anything is possible. But, I doubt that very much.

Yes, I received notification on Friday that mine had shipped, thank you! Less than three weeks away, now!

Exactly, that's it, right there. There is demand, even now, at crazy prices, so there will be even more demand in the future at realistic prices. Not today, but just wait a year or two and somebody will announce the launch of an Irish loco. It'll be to the detriment of the few and the benefit of the many. And the needs of the many.....

I was only little when the A's were in service, so my memory is hazy, but I'll definitely buy a few! Very very true, and those sellers would no longer be likely to achieve silly prices if the models were re-run.

The A class were retired 25 years ago, so comparing A Classes to 071's is like comparing apples to oranges. A 141 / 181 is worth €100, yet people, me included are prepared to pay twice that and still can't track down some of them. An 071 is worth €150, yet people are prepared to pay €300 for one. We'll see how the next four or five years go, but I stand by my opinion. There is no way in Hell that the market is contracting. It is growing. It is not the same market that it was ten years ago. We WILL see another Irish loco after the A, whether it's a release by MM, IRM, Bachmann or somebody else.

I respectfully disagree. The A class are not retailing at €400 each, and there are more than 100 units being produced. The Irish market is growing, not contracting, and is not the same creature that it was ten years ago. IRM have contributed massively to this growth, and are probably responsible for the large surge in sales of MM 071's this year, which are now all but unavailable. I reckon that in two years time, or less, demand for an Irish loco other than the A will drive second-hand prices to even more insane levels if one is not announced or at least speculated about.

Paying that much for a model worth €150 is desperate, foolish, ignorant, or some combination thereof! Likewise with those Mk2A's, €40 or so a pop is grand, but any more is.......... Yeah, I understand if somebody wants to spoil themselves or is missing just a particular model from their collection, then they are likely to spend over the odds to fill that hole. Still, time for IRM to get the 141's, 181's and 071's onto their roadmap, if Murphy Models are not in a position to re-run them over the next few years.