Mol_PMB

This old panoramic photo of Albert Quay / Rocksavage in August 1910 sold on eBay recently. 1911 RP Panorama Cork City Railway Road Bridge Real Photo Cork Ireland Scarce | eBay UK Some interesting roof detail on the wagons, ideal for modellers.

I'm going to develop my plans once they have arrived and I've taken one apart - at present I don't know how easy that will be. Things like whether the roof is integral with the sides, how easy it is to extract the window glazing etc. Some of my work will just be changing details, swapping bits around and partial/full repaints. I have an idea to draw some etched sides and ends for alternative bodies that could go on the same chassis. The laminate seconds built immediately after the Park Royals are an obvious candidate because their interior layout was identical to the Park Royals, so the interior could be re-used too. Another option would be one of the 1953 composites of traditional construction built just before the Park Royals, but those would only use the bogies, underframe and some detail parts. It would be great if those could be made available separately. I don't know whether IRM themselves have any other carriage projects in gestation that would use the same chassis/bogies. There are plenty of prototype options but few lasted beyond the early 1980s, and some were extensively modified during their lives. I suspect most types would be a bit too niche, and there are higher priorities like a BGSV. But maybe they'll surprise us.

Absolutely. Some of mine are destined to have new bodies etc.

I think I’ve read of Inchicore having labs too, possibly of a different style. Vague recollection is that they tested fuel samples? I’d have to look it up later as I’m away from home.

I’m sure I would have got better value if I’d ordered them all together. But my interests have evolved over the years that these have been in gestation and I’ve kept adding dribs and drabs.

Superb - many thanks! I like the double-deck sheep/pig wagon? They would not all have been grey - the vac-fitted wagons would have been orange-brown.

I’m fairly sure a Hunslet hauled a Cravens set on part of an ITG tour. A Park Royal, either CIE or RPSI, would be possible on a railtour. True, but they had vac brakes as well.

Since they should be arriving in close proximity I'm now idly wondering whether an NIR Hunslet ever hauled a train of Park Royals. Unlikely but not impossible.

Eeek!

A couple of photos from Ernie, I could find better ones given time. 8' type (most common in Ireland) had an equalising beam prominent on the outside of the bogie, so the vertical damper is also more obvious: 8'6" type has the equalising beam tucked inside the bogie frame, and vertical damper tucked in a bit: The BR type is slightly different again (image from John Turner on Flickr) both in suspension (prominent external swing links) and headstock shape: Modifying one type to the other will be a challenge. I'd say either leave them alone, or replace entirely. That's why it would be very helpful if IRM would provide the 8' type as a spare part. A couple more useful links to IRRS photos of bogies. A nice clear closeup of the 8' type: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508990164 And a couple of views of the rare Irish 8'6" type: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53505734292 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54251290771

Or keep leaning on IRM to make spares available from the Park Royals. There are more differences than just the wheelbase.

8ft As far as I’m aware it was only the coaches built at Inchicore in the early 1960s that received the 8’6” commonwealth bogies from new.

Super! With other pressures in life I'm struggling to find much modelling time at present, hope to get back to it soon. Models like this are inspiring.

Later this year, probably November, I will be giving an IRRS talk on CIE's AEC railcars. Initially to my local Manchester branch (also on rather flaky zoom); if it's popular I might do another performance in Ireland. My talk in Manchester will nearly coincide with the 75th anniversary of the delivery of the first CIE AEC railcars to Dublin. Here's the bodyshell of 2600 outside the Park Royal factory in late 1951, photo from brindale.co.uk: To top and tail the presentation I'd like to finish with a couple of slides on the last surviving vehicle - 6111 at Downpatrick. I was wondering if there are any long-term plans/hopes for this vehicle? If so it would be nice if I could give them some publicity. If not, I don't want to stir up enthusiasm for an impossible idea! Also I was wondering if it is feasible for me to look at the vehicle, maybe take some photos? I fully appreciate that may be impractical if there are safety issues, I just thought I'd ask. I'm visiting for the diesel gala in August but could easily extend my visit by a few days and come at a quieter time. If it's not practical I will try to use photos already in the public domain. On that topic I plan to approach a few other forum members for permission to use other selected AEC railcar photos in my presentation. I'll make contact in due course once I've worked out which images I'm interested in. Cheers, Paul

There are some strange and interesting proposal drawings from the early CIE era in the IRRS archives, including a fixed-formation DEMU or push-pull train for Dublin-Cork services. There’s a huge detailed blueprint drawing for the WCR railcars, but I didn’t see any narrow gauge carriages.

I enjoyed that. Have you got any more? P.S. Did pilgrimage specials ever run from the BCDR? P.P.S. this is a very poor attempt at a Knock Knock joke.

Signal style looks good for BCDR: https://flic.kr/p/2pwkdzq Construction style of the bridge also looks good for BCDR: If the double track means it’s on the Bangor line, then there aren’t many stations to check, and being on straight track in a cutting will narrow it down.

Interesting puzzle. The spacing of the rails indicates 5’3” gauge rather than standard. Trackform on the near line is bullhead but the far line may be lightweight flatbottom. With a signal and points, plus an access path from the bridge, we’re most likely at one end of a station. I wondered whether it is true double track or if it’s one end of a passing loop with a spur siding. I’m not sure I can see enough point rodding or evidence of FPLs for the crossover to have FPLs so I think it’s a trailing crossover on a double track line. The lattice post lower quadrant signal is distinctive but I’m no expert. The stone arch bridge looks a funny shape - the top of the arch seems rather flat. It may be a skew bridge but I’m still unsure of its integrity. If the line still exists then most of the distinctive features are likely to have been changed since the photo was taken. So I’ve no idea!

I recall this was discussed on the forum about a year ago and there was some conflicting info, or at least they weren’t in order. I’m not in front of my library at present, I’m afraid.

Letterkenny & Burtonport Extension Railway

Also worth noting is that Rapido are offering several variants of open carriage truck, with slightly different bodywork. These existed in Ireland too, and some lasted into CIE days, here's a little bit of one, which I think is a former MGWR vehicle: The book 'Irish Broad Gauge Carriages' has much better photos of MGWR, DSER, CBSCR carriage trucks of this general type, plus a 6-wheel WLWR type. They were latterly painted in CIE green livery like horseboxes. Also in the book are photos of GNR and NCC carriage trucks. Some IRRS images showing open carriage trucks: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511613225 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53507982437 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509191259

To be fair, I don't have personal experience of the Heljan A4, but I've read a lot of comments online about the inadequacy of the motor, and a lot of models needing repairs. Which seem to me like design and build quality issues. My point was more about overcoming the poor reputation they have gained. I'm not trying to rubbish the Irish market, and I apologise if it came across that way. Irish O gauge is a small niche within a niche, and I think the price of an O gauge 071 is likely to be beyond what many people would buy on a whim for something outside their main interests.

I can't imagine them being a priority. The market will have been filled with the Heljan ones, many of which will be shelf queens as few people have an O gauge layout big enough to suit an A4. And there would be a lot of work needed to resolve the design and build quality issues, and overcome the poor reputation of the Heljan ones. Having said that, there's probably more money to be made with an O gauge A4 than with an O gauge 071 class...

I have been spending too much money on eBay again, and I only bought this slide for a little detail hidden in the corner. Here's a photo by Ken Cooper at Glanmire Road shed on 13th June 1955. Colour photos from this era are scarce. The main subject is 2-6-0 No.369, a Coey design of 1909 built for heavy goods work but also used on passenger trains. This loco was withdrawn in March 1957, but still very much in service here and with a mound of good lump coal in the tender. The smokebox appears to have been freshly painted or at least oiled, so it contrasts with the rest of the loco livery. But what's that hiding in the corner? It's an AEC railcar, mostly in the shadows but the part in the sunlight clearly shows that it has a green roof. Or at least the edge of the roof is green. The vagaries of colour reproduction make it difficult to be certain whether this railcar is painted dark green or brilliant green. Most of the AEC fleet would have been about 2-3 years in service by this time, so one would expect them to be in original paint. If it's one of the first four (2600-2603) which entered service a year ahead of the rest, then it may have had a repaint by 1955. Here's Ernie's photo of a freshly-painted 2602 in 1955, showing off some of the modifications that may have prompted a repaint - the tablet catcher hatch, the new exhaust pipes, the enlarged buffers. It is clearly a lighter colour than the adjacent carriage. In the colour photo it's also hard to be sure whether the roof is entirely green, but only partly cleaned, or if the centre portion of the roof is painted black and just the edges are green: In that context I'll put this image here; this is from IRRS journal 25 dated 1959: I'm probably waffling on too long and this ought to be in the thread on green liveries, but it'll give you an idea of the sort of evidence I'm looking at, and trying to make sense of.

That looks excellent - an unusual wagon and very nicely finished. I like your justification for getting another one!