Mol_PMB

You may find that in some cases the old signs are still there under the new signs - often rebranding is just done with vinyls these days.

A couple of non-urgent questions for IRM when you have had a chance to unpack from the Scottish trip: When do you expect to close pre-orders for the Park Royals? I'm wondering whether to add one more to my order; I'm presently waiting until my IRM points transfer to the AS website so that I can spend them, but I don't want to miss the boat. And the second question associated with the same potential purchase: If I order another one to go with the three I've already ordered, is the multi-buy discount applied or does that only work on items ordered and paid for at the same time? Many thanks, Paul

while there is a pause in construction as I await the next etch order, IRRS Flickr have uploaded a super photo of E418 brand new in July 1957: https://flic.kr/p/2qNj1Yx Thank you! Having done the green numbers for the silver livery, I have also been working on the decal artwork for the black livery - both the numbers and the white vees at each end. I’ve done artwork for two different shapes of vee as they weren’t all the same.

Rapido have a track record of making their models available in 'what-if?' liveries as well as the accurate ones. Maybe someone should suggest UTA black? Photo from Ernie:

Well this weekend's progress on the H vans has been less than expected, partly owing to a day spent working in the garden and some time with friends. But also a significant realisation that once I reassembled the first wagon, the wheelsets would be trapped, and therefore I needed to finally make a decision about wheel profiles and back-to-backs. That also required some tooling to be made. So I've done all those other activities and haven't yet made any progress on the H van itself. I have decided to use 21mm gauge, 19.2mm (-0 +0.1) back-to-back, and mostly Alan Gibson EM gauge profile wheels which have a rim width of 2.3mm. This compares with the 2.8mm rim width of the IRM wheels. I had previously found that the IRM wheels in the Bulleid wagons could not be set to even 19.0mm back-to-back without the front faces rubbing on the back of the W-irons. With the thinner EM profile wheels, there's adequate space for a 19.2mm b-t-b and still good clearance to the W irons. So, for the IRM wagons the process is to take the wheels off the axles, and replace them with EM wheels set to 19.2mm b-t-b. This has required me to make a little press tool adaptor so that I can push the axle quite firmly without pressing on the pinpoint. Also I have made a 19.2mm b-t-b gauge. The stock of Markits(?) wheelsets I got from John with 28mm axles have an intermediate wheel rim width of about 2.6mm, and they fit OK in John's models with a 19.2mm b-t-b. The flanges are a little thicker than the EM gauge wheels so I'll have to check they're OK once I get some pointwork. For other wagons such as Parkside kits, I have used the Alan Gibson axles as well as their wheels, and extended the axles by 2mm by cutting in the middle and sleeving with a 2mm ID brass tube. Gibson wheels on IRM axles in IRM H van chassis: The next step is to do a batch of these and secure them to the correct b-t-b with a dab of superglue, and then paint/weather them as a batch. Whoever said that getting started in 21mm took a lot of extra effort was right! But I like a challenge.

Yes, I think over 200 were made. I've only built one but some people have whole trains of them. Leslie was considering whether to do one last batch of wagons before he retires. This was the most recent thread:

The website does describe it as "CIE G CLASS DUETZ DIESEL 1961 - 1977: Complete Body Kit for the D611 type - No castings." so one wouldn't expect a chassis in a body kit. I won't pick out the typos... However, I found some descriptions of building it which said it came with a 21mm gauge chassis. The wheelbase is 33mm, I'll have to start sketching up some drive options. There are a few oddities, such as there being holes apparently for handrail knobs in the cab backsheet, where there are no handrails on the prototype. Meanwhile there is no provision for the built-in lamps on the cab backsheet of a G611. On the G611, the cabside handrails are set into recesses on the prototype, which could have easily been provided on the etch, but are not. Although in most areas it's a G611, there are some aspects which are more like a G601. However, the Worsley products are sold as scratch aids rather than full kits, and in that context it's certainly a massive step ahead of some blank sheets of brass. It's also inexpensive at £33. So I'm not complaining, and I look forward to adding to my shunter fleet.

Well after placing an order yesterday afternoon, this was just delivered to my door by Allen himself. Can't get much better service than that! The kit doesn't include a chassis, and Allen says it never has done. However, he did put in a couple of nickel silver strips that I can use as a starting point, which was very helpful. The comments in some of the linked threads about the cabsides being in the wrong orientation on the original etch are correct - hence the provision of a second cab etch with them the right way round. Of course this has me wondering about rebuilding the 'wrong' cab as a G601, and if that works then buying a second kit to finish it off. It will have to join the queue as I definitely have too many projects on the go!

Lovely model! I do like the presence of O gauge. I found another good van roof photo: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570657293

A slight diversion but it doesn't warrant a new thread. There were some vans that seem to have been painted black (or nearly black) in the 1950s. I can't offer a reason but I think the photos are strong evidence. From Ernie, fitted H van 18861 in black, in 1958 when it would have been almost brand new: Not quite so sure about this one, as it's a black and white photo and the livery may be dark grey. It's another fitted H van 18774, and the photo dates from 1958, when it would have been new. Therefore a lot in common with the image of 18861 above. https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53501256855 This lovely image from Ernie dated 1957 shows a black van lower left. This isn't an H van, but one of their predecessors with a conventional underframe. In this case the livery is black with eau-de-nil snail and number, and the underframe appears to be grey; it's clearer in this closeup: In the right background of the same image from Ernie, there are a couple more vans that appear to be black or very dark - a dramatic contrast to the surrounding grey ones, as shown in this closeup: This photo shows newly-built van 17043 of the H-predecessor type in 1946. It appears to be very dark grey with the snail applied by transfer (and hence likely to be eau-de-nil rather than white): https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53507783407 Possibly it was the inspiration for this model by John: Finally, from IRRS, fitted H van 18792 in black with 'Return to Rush and Lusk' branding, looking rather grubby and dated 1970 which is much later than the images above but consistent with the photographer's other work so is likely to be correct: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570446721 So, if you want a bit of variety in the colour of your vans, black or very dark grey is another option.

The H vans have an interesting finish on the roof, which I assume is intended to represent a worn canvas covering. The pattern and colour looks plausible on a grey van. I'm not sure how much variation there is among the different models, here are my 3 grey ones and you can see that two are the same and one is different but has some of the same design elements: All three of my brown vans have the same roof as the two on the right in the image above (again, in the same two shades of grey). I don't have any grey snail liveried vans but the catalogue images show them with a uniform grey on the roof. I can't quite decide whether the 'two shades of grey; treatment is better than a uniform colour all over. Of course, there would also be a debate about what that colour should be! I just thought I'd pick out some photos of real H vans which show the roof in various conditions. These are mostly from Ernie or IRRS, but there are a couple from Jonathan Allen and Neil Smith too. 1963 and a freshly painted overhauled van already showing some variation in grey colours on the roof, possible some influence of shadow from the steam: 1961, again some variation in the roof of the nearer van which is probably in as-built condition with wear and weathering. Looks generally dark in the middle and paler at the edges. Some of the other vans have a more uniform roof colour. 1961 again, there are some newly-painted H vans here with rather tatty rooves. The dominant roof colour is darker grey: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53468557011 1962, the appearance of the rooves here may be influenced by a shower of rain, again they are patchy and tend to be darker in the middle: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570662593 Mid-1960s, the roofs aren't very clear here but it does give a good indication of the colour variation between newly-painted and well-weathered vans. They started off all over mid grey, and then the grey on the panels faded whilst the ironwork darkened with corrosion and trapped dirt, giving a 2-coloured appearance. The nearest van, a vac-fitted one, is the dirtiest - that may be a coincidence but it would be more likely to generate brake dust when running. The same colour contrast between freshly painted and well-weathered can be seen here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54257003568 Moving on to the roundel era, this early 1970s image shows both grey and brown vans. The brown one has a patchy roof that looks more grey than brown. The grey van has ribs across the roof - a modification which was increasingly common in later years and would be an easy way for a modeller to provide a bit of variety in their fleet. This row of five brown H vans shows a range of roof colours, mostly in the dirty grey spectrum but with considerable variation: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511436244 Now a few images showing brown vans with roof ribs. I assume that a different material was used for the roof covering which required the ribs to hold it down? These seem to be generally dark but variable: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511615359 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511314036 On balance, I think having some variation in the roof colour is prototypical, although most of the photos tend to indicate that they should be darker in the middle and lighter round the edges. If considered as the basis for some further weathering by the modeller then I think it's a positive thing. Having the same pattern on the roof of lots of vans looks a bit odd, and looking at the catalogue images for the other sets there do seem to be more variants - it may be coincidence that 5 of my 6 are the same. I wonder if there is a consistent roof pattern for each running number or is there a collecting niche here for different combinations? What do others think?

I’d be interested to hear others’ thoughts on the roof finish. I haven’t quite decided - pros and cons.

Just out of interest, have you looked at the BritainfromAbove aerial photos? There are several of Portadown that may be useful for your purposes.

Nice! and we can see the water tower too. The window under the tower looked odd on your model but it's actually spot on compared to the prototype photo. Excellent work!

Perhaps not in the toolbox but a non-standard item in the materials store. Sommerfeldt, the model catenary manufacturers, sell copper-plated steel wire in packs of ten 500mm lengths, perfectly straight. The same as is used in their catenary. It's solderable just like copper or brass wire, but very stiff and strong in comparison to those materials. Equally it is easily bent to sharp corners using pliers. Absolutely perfect for handrails, for example. There are a range of thicknesses available from 0.35mm to 1.0mm. I suspect its commercial application may be in TIG or MIG welding, but it's a godsend in my modelling.

The ignorance of the vendor is often the best route to a true bargain! But sometimes ignorant vendors stubbornly believe that their goods are worth far more that their actual value, and refuse to accept a fair price.

Well in the spirit of this thread I have already voided the warranty on one of my new H vans, and they only arrived today! As a very minimum, regauging to 21mm needs the wheelsets out, and that requires removal of most of the brake gear on these fitted vans. Because my level of OCD also requires the buffer spacing to be corrected, those have come out too. I don't think I've done any dreadful damage in the process but I did find myself wishing that the factory's glue wasn't quite as effective in some places... Hopefully I can modify where necessary and get it all back together eventually! I bought six of these and whilst in some ways I wish I had more to produce different variants, in other ways that would just give me more of a re-gauging headache! I wish IRM/AS would use finer scale wheel profiles - the axles and bearings are spot-on but I think I'll have to swap all the wheels out. So, what's the plan? Well, it keeps changing, partly because I can't decide what era I'm modelling, and I think I'm ending up with stock to suit 3 slightly different periods: early 1960s (locos silver/green) , around 1970 (locos black), and mid 1980s (locos supertrain). I must confess that for some reason I don't like the black and tan livery on locos. I keep stepping back in time, and the business model of pre-order followed by a long wait has resulted in the wagons I've ordered perhaps representing a later era than I now think they would be more suited for. Certainly the three brown ones I've ordered don't fit well into any of the periods mentioned above, maybe one or two in 1970. Well, the current thoughts are as follows (all work includes regauging wheels, brakes, buffers): 1 brown van, add extended buffers, repaint to green/black, snail. 1 brown van, replace entire underframe with conventional steel solebars, unfitted, renumber as older type van. Livery undecided, probably grey and snail although brown options exist. 1 brown van, add strips on roof, renumber, still in brown. 1 grey van, heavily modify sides to to palvan variant, paint in grey/roundel. 1 grey van, modify to old-type hand brakes outboard of the wheels, repaint in darker grey livery, snail, cement branding? 1 grey van, no major modifications, tan roundel, maybe renumber. This gives 6 vans, all physically different, most liveries different, and none a simple 'unfitted H' which I suspect IRM will flog to me in due course. The spare Bulleid chassis released will be re-used under a Parkside palvan kit. Sounds like a I have busy weekend ahead of me!

As usual, the first thing to do with any new toy is to take it apart... Here are some learning points for the rest of you wanting to take these apart (oh, only me? OK...) I thought that to separate the body and the chassis I would need to undo the screws and then they would fall apart (like the corrugated wagons). This is not the case with the vans. There are several bits of the brake gear that are stuck to the metal floor unit rather than the skeletal underframe, so that undoing the screws does not free the frame from the floor. They are the vacuum cylinder, the brake gear crank near the middle, the brake safety loops and the vee hangers. These can be removed with a bit of care (fine screwdrivers, cocktail sticks, fine pliers etc), though I bent some of the brake safety loops in the process. Some of these seem to be fitted one end into the floor and the other end into the frame. Having separated the floor I then found that the body was a simple clip fit onto the floor, and perhaps I need not have separated the floor and the frame after all. Although the brake safety loops have to come off anyway to release the brake shoe assemblies and the wheels for re-gauging. The clips at the bottom of the body are under the roundel and the 'vac brake' wording. Anyway, having got the body off I discovered that the sides and roof are moulded in one piece. I'd been hoping they were separate bits to simplify modification and repainting, but never mind. Hopefully this is helpful to someone even if as an example of what not to do.

They look excellent. I have duly ordered a set. I have a variety of wooden blocks and strips with different abrasive grades stuck to them with double-sided tape. These blocks look they would be a good replacement for my bigger blocks. The smaller strips are very useful for cleaning up etches - a variety of widths helps.

Was that a lack of foresight by the Waterford and Limerick Railway back in the 1850s?

This might have some potential for an NIR 1 class, an industrial loco newly announced by Revolution: It's an Industrial Revolution - in OO! - Revolution Trains It's by no means an exact match but probably closer in style than other RTR offerings. (With apologies to IRM if you're working on a proper DH!)

I'm pleased to see that these are selling well on the AS website with some versions down to the last few in stock. Hopefully that will encourage future O gauge projects. I'll just leave this here...

I'm very pleased to say that both my packs have arrived safely this morning and I can show a Bulleid train on my photo plank. Thank you, IRM! I now have 4 packs of IRM Bulleid wagons awaiting regauging, modification and weathering - I can foresee a production line and might get started this weekend while I wait for the E class chassis etch. The fitted brake gear is exquisite but is going to be harder to regauge than the hand-braked version - a nice challenge. I might even do a green one with extended buffers? https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/17713-the-green-h-vans/

The latest upload from the IRRS is a nice colour image of A6 in traffic in black and tan in October 1961: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54340700855 Eight months later in June 1962, A28 was still running in tatty silver livery. Then it appeared in the all-over plain dark colour discussed in the posts above. Maybe they were using up old stocks of paint.

Over on RMWeb some people have reported (of the Heljan base models) that some brake shoes aren’t fully clear of the wheels, making the wagons a bit stiff. Might be worth checking if they don’t roll as freely as you would like.