Mol_PMB

Sorry! It's complicated. IRM didn't actually model the ones with steel floors; I was looking for information to do a conversion to represent that type. But for the ones without steel floors, there were two main groups: 30001-30090, built 1971-1972. These had Ride Control bogies. 30099-30278, built 1978-1979. These had Sambre et Meuse bogies, and the wagon frame design was modified above the bogies to allow clearance for the larger bogie frame. The IRM models have the first type of frame and the second type of bogie: Both batches of wagons were built with round buffers, and 14 spigot brackets each side. Later, many wagons were modified with rectangular buffers (circa 1990s) and additional spigots for keg cages (circa 2000s). The IRM wagons include these later modifications.

The whole wagon could be the basis for your O gauge 'Project 62' - container flats and log wagons.

That looks great - and it's good to see what the Cambrian bogies look like in situ under a 42' flat and painted brown - they look right! As you mention, the round buffers are another feature needed for back-dating. I think all the 42' flats had round buffers initially, even the late 1970s batch with S+M bogies. Here's a scan of the image in Doyle&Hirsch:

These ones don't even need a repaint! https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/306034692315

Of course, another advantage for the CIE AEC railcars is that the Park Royal coaches were often used as intermediates, as seen here in one of Ernie's photos: As far as I am aware, the CIE cars were virtually identical to the GNR ones. In both fleets, even-numbered cars had a steam heating boiler in the guard's compartment so there were detail differences in that area between even and odd numbered cars, but I think this mainly affected the roof. So potentially IRM would only need to tool one vehicle, with some optional fittings at one end of the roof and perhaps some optional skirt panels, to cover both fleets over most of their lifetime. The basic liveries were GNR dark blue/cream, CIE mid green, CIE black/tan, UTA dark green, UTA light blue/cream, NIR maroon/grey. But there were a whole host of variations in colour shades, wasp stripes etc.

Three superb illustrations of the correct shade of CIE green livery and lining thickness I suspect there were even more variations to be seen.

If you do the UTA thing, then you can always run them with a CIE loco south of the border, and even south of Dublin: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54255883237/

Wonderful! You have captured the winter scene perfectly, something which is very hard to do convincingly. I love the station building too!

I agree, an 80 would be very nice. One (atypical) set had both trailers from former loco-hauled coaches that would be easy to do from existing IRM mouldings. The 450s weren't popular in reality, which may influence their popularity as models. But if Accurascale's secret new GB multiple unit turns out to be based on the Mk3 bodyshell, then maybe... My gut feel is that the ICR experience may have discouraged future Irish multiple-unit development, but I hope that doesn't stop it entirely. I reckon in 5-10 years time those ICR's will be rare as rocking horse poo and selling secondhand for much more than their RRP.

@jhb171achill jokes about the overly posh 'zebra' paint job on the RPSI's GNR brake van 'Ivan'. Well every time I look at my model of his sister 'Ivanka', I think I've finished, take a photo, and then realise that there are still a load of things I need to deal with. It's a slow burn this project, but I'm nearly there. 'Ivanka' is extremely disreputable compared to her brother, but in fine form to tail a Hunslet-hauled works train. She is based on this photo by Jonathan Allen: https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/49497154092 I am still hoping for some UTA spoil wagon kits to go with this van, the Hunslet and a couple of former Courtaulds opens. Meanwhile, we have the beginnings of a liner train. Two of @leslie10646's 20' flat wagons of the 27101 series, and I've managed to get a few IRM bogie flats secondhand. The bogie flats will be modified to suit my needs in due course. I also have 3 brass kits of the 25436 series 20' flats in the works at present. The container on the left is also one of Leslie's whereas the other orange one (not yet lettered) is a plain C-Rail one. All the containers need some / more weathering. CIE did have some 'plain vanilla' 20' boxes without side doors or other fancy features - there's one here in my tatty old print at Ennis, stacked on top of something else. Possibly another one on the ground to its right. But as yet I haven't confirmed their number series or found a better photo than this:

Ah, that's brilliant, many thanks! I see it had lost its chain pockets by that stage - maybe just put into normal container-carrying service? There are various suppliers of etched brass chequer plate, it's great to see how it was arranged on those photos.

Let me consult Mystic Mol... It's been a nice clear day today so visibility in the ball has been good, though more distant predictions are always less reliable. Possibly for 2026/2y, I'm trying not to make this a wishlist but what would make sense and be popular: The triangulated carriage underframe and Irish commonwealth bogies have more gifts to give. Laminate carriages, Travelling post office, even some NIR PW bogie flats(!). I have a feeling that there's someone with a soft spot for the E class at IRM Towers. Most worked in the Dublin area but they were also resident in Limerick and Cork for many years, and ventured elsewhere on occasion. At present there's not even a kit available for E class. AEC Railcars would suit a lot of layout themes over the years. A whole host of liveries both north and south. Unpowered push-pull conversions too. Re-run of the 42' flats but with Ride Control bogies, and/or stretch them to 47' - possibly only one new moulding needed for either?

Every one sold out. Time for something new...

Sort of, but it's a bit more complicated. The frame of the IRM wagon is the correct type for the 30001-30091 series with Ride Control bogies. But they have supplied it with (very nice) Sambre et Meuse bogies. The SSM one is also the same hybrid as far as I can tell! For the wagon with the floor I will definitely be replacing the bogies whichever model I start with. Cambrian do some which are pretty close, their code C72, but I think they might be 6' wheelbase rather than 2m wheelbase, and they're a bit more peaked in the middle. They'd probably look OK with the smaller wheels of a container wagon and my challenge will be to use the IRM wheelsets with rotating axle end caps in the Cambrian sideframes! For my other 42' flats I will either change the bogies or modify the solebars. The 30001-30091 batch frames have a plain solebar over the bogies: But on the later batch with Sambre et Meuse bogies, the solebar is cut away to provide more clearance for the larger bogie sideframes, with some reinforcing ribs: Whereas both IRM and SSM have the Sambre et Meuse bogies under a plain solebar: http://www.studio-scale-models.com/img/K47.jpg I know this is a 47' wagon but this photo clearly shows why the cutaway is needed! This photo from Jonathan Allen on Flickr also shows that some wagons had a different arrangement of the diagonal ribs betweeen the buffers and the bogie centrepivot. Easier to see if you click on the photo to view it in Flickr and then zoom in. The nearer two wagons have Ride Control bogies and the arrangement of diagonals as in the first photo above (which is how IRM have modelled it) while the next three wagons have Sambre et Meuse bogies and a different arrangement of the diagonals. However, I don't think the alternative diagonal rib arrangement was used on all wagons with Sambre et Meuse bogies because both of these two seem to have the same ribe: Many of the wagons with Sambre et Meuse bogies later had thin steel plates (splashers / spark guards) provided above the bogies, which concealed the type of diagonal bracing anyway. The IRM wagons also have more spigot brackets than any of the 42' wagons originally did; I think these are genuine as a later mod for carrying kegs, but weren't present in the 1970s-1990s period. Some wagons had even fewer spigot brackets; this is 30288 with only 6 each side:

This trio from @Mayner's kits are now very nearly complete, with the main weathering done based on prototype photos. They may get a dusting of running dirt from the airbrush when the weather's a bit warmer, and I still need to do the glazing in the brake van. It's funny how the phone camera 'sees' colours and contrasts a bit differently from the naked eye, and the colours also look different today from yesterday's sunlit photo. When the IRM H vans turn up, they'll boost this train significantly. But I have plans to modify all of them to some extent. I'm trying to get my other wagon projects finished before the end of January! Plans for the H vans include re-spacing the buffers on all of them, and then as follows: Add extended buffers to represent a former green van, but in brown livery as 18848 Replace the underframe with a modified Parkside one, unfitted and with conventional solebars, in brown livery as 17194 Add strips across the roof, in brown livery as 18731 Modifed/replaced sides and extended buffers as H palvan, in grey livery as 18828 Modify the brakes to represent an unfitted 4-shoe brake setup, in grey livery as 17568 The last one can stay as bought apart from the buffers, maybe renumbered as 18675 Seven? Where did the other one come from? Well the underframe from 2 will be used as the basis of a 26000 series palvan using a Parkside body. It won't need the handbrake wheels which will be robbed to complete my fitted cattle wagon. That'll keep me busy in February, and give me 7 vans, all different, to add to the CIE cattle, LMA, GSR grain and GNR cement vans I have already.

Ah, wonderful, many thanks! It looks like they have a full complement of mounting brackets for ISO spigots, and that the stakes can alternatively be slotted into these brackets. This picture has more stakes fitted than the Doyle & Hirsch image. Then between or below the brackets, there are 7 chain/stake pockets each side. The steel floor's not so obvious from this angle, but is better shown in the Doyle & Hirsch image. Now, should I start with an IRM model or an SSM kit? They've both got the right sort of frame and the wrong sort of bogies!

Would the pier have been strong enough for a C class? Remember it was newly reconstructed in concrete in 1955. From then until 1963 it was worked by a Class E steam loco weighing about 35 tons on a 13'3" wheelbase, 11.7t axleload, 2.64 tons/ft. An E class diesel was also trialled, 38.8 tons on a 13' wheelbase, 12.9t axleload, 2.98 tons/ft. In comparison a C class was 58 tons on a 29' wheelbase, 14.5t axleload, 2.0 tons/ft. So the C class was a fair bit heavier, but the weight was distributed over more axles and a much longer wheelbase: in terms of bridge loading it wouldn't necessarily be any worse than the E or the other E.

Regarding motive power, Alan O'Rourke's book on the North Kerry line has a good chapter on this covering Fenit in some detail. The following is just a brief summary. In the early years of the 20th Century, the Fenit harbour commissioners had their own loco 'Shamrock', a Hunslet 0-6-0ST 557 of 1892, purchased secondhand. It later became GSR 299, and continued to work on the pier until 1941. In the late 1920s there was another Hunslet 0-6-0ST of 1894, named 'Erin', which was withdrawn in 1930. GSWR 0-6-0T 100 was transferred to Fenit in the 1930s. The pier was closed from 1941 to 1955 as the timber pilings had deteriorated to a dangerous condition, but was substantially rebuilt in concrete in 1955 and reopened. MGWR Class E 0-6-0T 560 was provided by CIE to work it until 1963. E410 was trialled in 1958 but 560 continued in use until replaced by G class locos in 1963 (usually G616 or G617). In 1963 there was serious consideration of permitting C class locos onto the pier and a trial run was proposed, but this came to nothing. The use of road tractors or capstans to haul railway wagons on the pier was also considered and discounted. In the 1960s, there were about 30 ships a year serving Fenit, each providing about 3 days work for the railway. On the Fenit branch, a G class was allowed a maximum load equivalent to 11 wagons, but this wasn't an efficient way to work when a ship was being unloaded. Instead, the G class would shuttle back and forth to the pier with runs of 5 or 6 wagons, which would be assembled into longer trains at Fenit (mainland) and hauled to Tralee by a larger loco, usually a C class or B141 class. So given a bit of modeller's licence, a C class or B141 class on the pier wouldn't be too far-fetched. There are also kits available for the G class and the MGWR Class E... (but not the diesel E class)

Another recent upload is this view of a Sulzer in 1968, B111 apparently arriving at Connolly with a passenger train from the north or north-west; neither being usual haunts of the class. https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54257008764/

Many thanks! I hadn't previously discovered the Kennelly Archive, there are hundreds of photos of Fenit Pier on there from various different dates. Looking at them will keep me amused for a while! Regarding the cranes, the rail-mounted steam cranes were standard gauge, and ran on the same tracks as the locos and wagons. One of the NLI images shows a crane at Fenit (mainland). Now that I've seen a lot more photos of them it's clear that they don't have any buffers or couplings, and that the crane body overhangs the underframe. So they must have been self-propelled and were not intended for shunting [elsewhere, it wasn't unusual for small cranes like these to have buffers and be used for shunting]. As John notes above, by 1965 thoughts were turning to replacing the old cranes, and a road crane was hired as a trial: https://www.kennellyarchive.com/media/6edb0e7f-e29b-4aec-a32c-4487f6206210 The Kennelly Archive photos cover a good range of dates, but one sequence of 34 images is from May 1970, recording the commissioning of two new gantry cranes, and this is quite interesting: https://www.kennellyarchive.com/media/227941d5-7782-4307-a9e3-f6414e85a12a https://www.kennellyarchive.com/media/79aa37cd-dcae-4922-845c-04808a040e54 https://www.kennellyarchive.com/media/f07bcebb-3eb1-4673-bf1f-0abb563c9c32 One rail of the big gantry crane appears to be one of the railway running rails, or perhaps a new stronger rail put in the same place. The other gantry crane rail is just in front of the shed on the pier. So you could still run wagons under the crane, but not on the track nearest the quayside. The crane tracks didn't extend as far as the pointwork: https://www.kennellyarchive.com/media/4d716003-8cc6-403d-9131-069b1266ac4d https://www.kennellyarchive.com/media/9da0e68a-6d8a-40ce-bd7d-50b5129c1b75 This has interesting implications for working railway traffic on the pier! The old cranes were still there in 1970 but perhaps now obsolescent: https://www.kennellyarchive.com/media/d50d6827-9e27-43d2-b28e-0d1268e9f5a2 https://www.kennellyarchive.com/media/7042074c-a9c4-42c5-81db-8eb466b4ee65 https://www.kennellyarchive.com/media/d125f8ce-a114-4a98-8538-5638a86eb950 There is evidence of container traffic handled at Fenit, this is a pre-ISO container in 1960: https://www.kennellyarchive.com/media/e7b8bbaa-0feb-4f95-ae01-578dd613f895 And here's an ISO flat 'Hibernian Transport Group' being lifted in 1970: https://www.kennellyarchive.com/media/05f808a9-dd5a-4ccb-a8d4-f01850e28d70 https://www.kennellyarchive.com/media/20b8d016-5aee-4a0e-a623-297d7dd53e6c https://www.kennellyarchive.com/media/65fe3d37-7b93-42ef-9d6c-1aed3072c868 I think there This photo linked by John is very useful for the pier construction - it's not just a vertical wall but the front edge is on columns and the wall is a bit further back. This would be interesting to represent at the front of the model: https://www.kennellyarchive.com/-/archive/all-images/-/medias/2f0fb9d1-9f79-44ed-b526-0b3a42e42a65-sea-angling-competition/fs I will continue researching this as I do think the pier could be an attractive model and interesting to operate. The gantry crane using the same rail as the trains would definitely restrict operations within the limited space available, but might not be a complete show-stopper and would give some interesting shunting challenges. But I could choose whether or not to place the gantry crane on the layout, and without it I could represent a date pre-1970.

I’m not sure if this has been posted before, but this appears to be a list of the older rolling stock still in use by IE: https://www.irishrail.ie/getmedia/aac9a861-ac8a-42a0-b7f9-a94d8d38e336/IE_FOI_733-Response-Pack.pdf I’m not sure how complete it is!

Do you have a date for these photos? Just wondering because the views recently uploaded to the IRRS Archive https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54257009944 dated 7 Sept 1963 have grey cranes, whereas these are red. On a lighter note, my eye was drawn to the lady sunbathing against the buffer stop in the second photo! I imagine that these steam cranes were self-propelled but they don't seem to be designed for shunting wagons. Any info on whether they were used for shunting in the absence of a loco? Potentially another item of motive power needed for a model!

I've been doing some work based on maps, aerial and satellite photos, and ground-level photos, to produce a plan of Fenit pier as accurately as I can. Then of course, it doesn't fit the space available so I've had to compress it. Still, this has been an interesting exercise and the results are shown below. The upper version is full size, while the lower version is compressed longitudinally to fit on an IKEA 'LACK' shelf which is 1900x260x50mm. The real thing seems to use 1:6 turnouts but I've compressed them to 1:5 on the model. Minimum curve radius is 875mm, same as my best estimate of the real thing scaled down. There are some rather attractive small buildings that might be used as a scenic break at the left-hand end but I haven't yet drawn those up. With a suitable small fiddle yard I think this could be quite an entertaining layout. In reality it was mostly operated by G class in the diesel era, but E and C are easily justifiable and if a C class will fit then a 141 isn't far behind. The 'LACK' shelf doesn't favour under-board point motors, but an option is to put the motors above the service in the long thin warehouse on the pier, and use rods and cranks to operate the points. The entire track layout is set in concrete so there are no worries about rail section or fastenings.

Once I've finished the current crop of wagons, regauging and weathering 007 is my next task. It will also have the IR logos replaced with roundels to match the photos above. I must confess I have also acquired 2 more IRM A class and there's a danger that the black one may also become A7. It's a favourite of mine, being the first A class I travelled behind. A11 would be another option (which I also travelled behind), but I haven't yet found a photo of A11 in black although I think it did carry that livery.

Unusual one-off prototypes seem to attract more attention than the less common but still run-of-the-mill locos. I tend to agree, there's more chance of a model of the '......mental' 356 than there is of a model of its class in more typical condition. But realistically the chance of either is negligible. Preserved and operational locos will have a much wider appeal, and are there to measure. For Irish steam, 4 or 186 are surely the prototypes of choice as they were both large classes with widespread use, probably 171 as a third option?