Mayner

The 362 Class 4-6-0s or Long Toms built in 1905 were an attempt to overcome the problem with excessive weight with the 355 Class 0-6-0s built two years earlier. The Long Toms were considered to be a failure, the bogie tended to derail and they had a reputation of rough riding. The GSWR settled on inside cylinder 2-6-0 wheel arrangement including the rebuilding of the 355 class as 2-6-0s until the building of the 500 Class outside cylinder 4-6-0s locos that were state of the art by the standards of the 1920s.

Come to think of it Tramore pretty much ticks most of the boxes for suburban rather than branch line or local service. Heavy traffic, short distance, frequent service, smarty timed trains. The AEC railcar set supplied did not have the seating capacity to handle the peak traffic carried by the steam hauled stock.

A J26 would be pretty much ideal for the DCDR or short heritage line, it just might be possible to kit-bash an Argadeen from a small Hunslet or Manning Warde 0-6-0 if you can get one, its possible a set of patterns may exist for a scratch build. The J26 have been described as the Irish equivalent of the Brighton Terrier tank loco, but were closer in size and power output to the LNER J67-69 family of tank locos (GER Buckjumper) and the LNER J72 class. Some of the GER locos were built to compete with the electric tramways on short distance suburban services out of Liverpool Street including Enfield , they were well suited to suburban work with their small wheels and the entire engine weight available for traction. The GSR may have been reluctant to try the J26 on suburban trains as both the DSER and GSWR both preferred 2-4-2T and 4-4-2T for passenger work and were unlikely to have considered a small 0-6-0.

Its hard to believe that its over two years since I started this thread and not so hard to believe I still haven't finished the locos:rolleyes: I am updating the artwork to include inside non-working valve gear, but haven't had a chance to look at the drawings since July. The gear is based on the Beyer Peacock GA of the earlier D Class 2-4-0 although the K Class cylinders are further forward of the leading axle and motion bracket than the earlier locos. I will have to have a close look at the valve gear on my large scale Mogul or a full size loco to position the eccentric rods even half right. I have used the same CAD programme for over 10 years and I am still learning and discovering new short cuts and features

Ranks & CIE grain wagons Sligo late 60s © David Malone David recalls that the Ranks wagon was in grey with white lettering. At this stage the wagons may have been in use for grain traffic from Ferns to the Mill at Ballysodare. This probably explains why the redundant wagons were stored at Wicklow Junction when CIE gave up on wagon load operation.

Achill, Athboy, Ballinrobe, Balldaghdreen, Clifden, Courtmacsharry, Edenderry, Fenit, Killeshandra, Loughrea, Shillelagh, Tramore to start with. Unlikely to have been used on ex-GSWR branch lines with the possible exception of Banagher which became a-defacto branch in GSR days with Mullingar or Athlone supplying the branch loco

In the day job I spend a fair amount of time inspecting car body shops for health and safety and dangerous goods compliance. The majority still use solvent (xylene or toluene) rather than water based paint systems. Acute solvent exposure can lead to brain damage, some car painters have literally lost their marbles The really dangerous ingredients tend to be in the two pack clears or laquers and the primer fillers or bogs. The 2 pack clears contain isocyanates which are completely different from cyanide, the principal health risk is occupational asthma. Some of the bogs or primer fillers and lead based pigments (some yellows, blacks and reds) which can cause cancer. Bake ovens are used with both solvent and water based systems, the purpose of the oven is to speed the drying and harden the paint finish. The insurance companies largely dictate the rates for body repair work forcing out the smaller shops, the few that survive tend to depend on restoration and often tend to be run more as a hobby than a business, with more unfinished projects than the average modeller. The European based manufacturers have been gradually phasing out the most harmful ingredients, but I have had some interesting surprises reading the SDS from some Dutch and German based manufacturers.

Funnily enough reliable operation during leaf fall was supposed to be one of the major advantages of the 121 hauled MK3 push-pull stock over railcars on the Drogheda suburban trains. Oliver Doyle wrote about placing the loco at the North end of the train and propelling towards Dublin was to reduce wheel slip on up morning suburban trains. The coaches of a 5 or 6 coach set was supposed to crush and fragment the leaves/ice, and the loco theoretically running in idea rail conditions.

Just to confuse things further some of the GSR built grain hoppers were company wagons and appeared iin GSR ad later CIE livery. The Ranks wagons were private owner and were lettered Ranks Ireland Limited I have seen a colour photo of one of these wagons in red oxide with broken wheel logo on the scrap line at Mullingar in the late70s Ranks used these wagons between the elevators at Alexandra Road, Limerick Careys Road and Clara Mill, the wagons also appeared to run in CIE days to grain elevators in Ardee.

The small rectangles beside the rear spectacle plate appear to be the Waterford and Tramore bunker sides. More in the way off a set of scratchbuilders parts than a complete kit. The safety valve and smoke box door castings are suitable for the period from building up to re-boilering immediately prior to WW1, when the locos appear to have been fitted with more conventional smokebox doors, ejector pipework and ross pop safety valves, but retained their long cast Iron funnels and smoke box wrapper flush with boiler cladding. The later GSR style riveted smokeboxes and built up chimneys appear to have been fitted during the Emergency. Great Southern Railways by Donal Murray (Ian Allen) has several photos of these locos on branch line workings in GSR days.

I have two of these locos the 1st built nearly 30 years ago with the original brass chassis which actually works, the 2nd with the revised n/s chassis awaiting a new set of coupling rods. Assembling these kits is probably nearer to scratchbuilding without having to cut out the metal than a modern kit with pre-formed parts, slot and tab construction and multi layer detail. Both the original and revised frames are unusual in that they were designed to be assembled with the axle bearing for a rocking or sprung axle running in a slot or circular hole in the main frame, rather than separate etched or cast hornblocks commonly used in 4mm scale modelling practice. The original chassis may be a better starting point for a sprung chassis than the later n/s version The original brass chassis appears to have been designed with slots for a standard 1/8" top hat or compensated bearing. I used Sharman Flexichassis Brushes for a compensated chassis. The loco is a reasonably good runner despite a 30 year old DS10 motor and a slight waddle, which indicates that the original drafting of the artwork was accurate. The later n/s chassis was designed for compensated assembly using top hat brushes and equalising beams. I found that the axle holes for the rocking axles were etched oversized for the collar of a 1/8" top hat bearing. The coupling rods appear to be different centres and more fragile than the original brass version, I managed to destroy one of the rods during the final stage of assembly of the second loco I will probably get around to finishing it some day. If you fancy a day at the races as far as I recall parts for the extended W&T cab roof and sides are in the fret, and I may have a suitable riveted smokebox somewhere.

The stone or brick built buildings, turntable, two road engine shed and carriage shed were a MGWR standard requirement for Western Branches in the 1890s. The Achill, Clifden and Killala branches were financed by the Government, Loughea and Ballinrobe by local companies with the ratepayers guaranteeing the capital. The MGWR was much more demanding of the government in terms of minimum requirements for construction standards and facilities than the GSWR. The MGWR western branches were much more main line in character than the GSWR Kerry branches which lasted much longer.

The station layout is interesting with a lot more on the traffic than the revenue side. http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V2,520833,829850,11,9 There may be photographs of the line before closure in the Stephenson Locomotive Society collection http://www.stephensonloco.org.uk/SLSphotocollec.htm. Some of the UK enthusiasts/photographers may have recorded the Killala Branch as part of their haj. to Achill, Dingle and other threatened lines during the early 30s.

It would be interesting to compare 171 with the Beyer Peacock drawings to see how much of the original was retained in the 1938 renewal of the Class. In Irish Steam O S Nock describes the renewal as new locomotives rather than rebuilds. Like the GSWR/GSR renewal of the Coey 321 Class 4-4-0s in the 1920s the renewal of the GNR locos was so extensive that they were practically new locomotives.

The factory would make an interesting model with really large industrial buildings. Although beet traffic appears to have ended in the 60s, CIE operated occasional liner trains in the early 1970s with export sugar to Dublin Port in 8'6" containers on 4 wheel flat wagons. The siding and marshalling yard was still connected to the main line into the mid1980s The factory was served by a siding which trailed back alongside the Main Line from the station giving the appearance of a double track main line. The track layout at the factory was similar to Mallow and Tuam a marshalling yard with several loops beside the main line and a siding crossing the road on the level into the factory

Tolerance to Graffiti is a good example of the Broken Window Theory of criminology. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory I don't know about Ireland but lot of graffiti and tags is tied up with street gangs marking out their territory. Tagging a piece of rolling stock looks like a way of laying claim to another gangs territory.

The big question is whether there is a market to support a more reasonably priced range of kits or building detail packs. Most people seem to be reasonably happy with mass produced buildings and kits that were intended for the UK market, a small number of modellers scratch build Irish buildings and a smaller number still attempting to set their layouts in a distinctly Irish landscape.

Put me down for one pleeze Des. Always seemed to be one waiting at Island Bridge Junction, when I made the weekly Saturday morning pilgrimage on the 23 bus to Southern Model Railways and Monck Place in my early teens. Happy days!

I was thinking mainly in terms of braking power while working heavy loose coupled trains. The WR found that the Warships had insufficient braking power for loose coupled trains, the B101 and A Class were preferred to the Baby GMs which were considered too slippy for goods work. In Diesel Dawn Colm Flannigan speaks about 800-1000 hp locos capable of hauling a 600ton freight train at 30-35mph or a 180 ton passenger at 70-75mph with 40 for the GNR and 16 for the UTA Whether this would have allowed sufficient margin to double head Dublin-Belfast and Derry Road freights before the widespread closure of secondary lines is open to question. While the GNR relied on 4-4-0s & 0-6-0s there is little evidence of Midland style regular double heading of heavy goods and passenger trains. The classic photos are large 4-4-0s with 6-8 coaches on single headed on the climb to Father Murphy's Chappel or on Carrickmore Bank. Its possible some GNR traffic and engineering people may have been influenced enough by European practice to realise that modern fully fitted wagons would be needed as part of an ever expanding wish list to Stormont and Merrion Street.

One of the more ironical things about the closure of the Derry Road was that Stormont killed of a potentially profitable rail freight operation. Freight traffic under customs bond from Dundalk to Strabane for County Donegal was very heavy with two or more nightly trains up to closure. Strabane was in modern terms an inland port for Donegal with County Donegal Railway (CDRJC) road services operating passenger and freight services radiating from Strabane to most of Donegal. CIE only took over from the CDR in 1972. IThis could have opened up a scenario of the Derry Road staying open as far as Strabane for Donegal freight traffic with an IWT style operation, if the politicians were pragmatic enough or even passenger services through to Foyle Road cross-subsidised by freight access charges. Possibly Donegal freights operated by CIE or even the CDJR on running powers from Dundalk. The CDJR running leased 001, 071 or Hunslets in Donegal red and cream livery ;)just like the leased CIE busses in the 1960s JHB The German 1000hp diesel hydraulics just don't add up for working heavy loose coupled goods trains single headed over the more hilly sections of the main line or Derry Road. Building new loco maintenance works at Adelaide and buying tower cabbed English Electric A1A A1As would have been more politically acceptable in Northern Ireland than subsidising jobs in the Free State and possibly swayed the powers that be more in favour of keeping the railways.

The accountability that the information however trivial represents is the life blood of any democracy "Ministerial Servicing" is taken very seriously in most democracies. Depending on the quality of information there is a potential for both the Minister and Public Servant to be serviced. When a question is tabled for question time its basically a case of dropping whatever you are doing sometimes at very short notice and finding the answer for a ministerial question however seemingly trivial or forget about your career prospects as a public service. The Cardinal sin is supplying a minister with less accurate information than the opposition already have and probably result in a transfer to Antartica or the Blasket Islands. We tend to treat freedom of information more seriously than in Ireland all requests have to be processed free of charge within 20 days or face similar reprecussions.

Worsley Works produce sets of scratchbuilders parts for the Laminate 1449-1496 64 Seater Standard open and the 1908-1913 main line Brake Standards Worsley Works Laminate Brake on temporary bogies finished with Comet Castings SSM decals Hopefully Des is about to announce the correct 8' Irish lightweight Commonwealth Bogies

As you live in the States it would probably be a better option to use NMRA track and wheel standards and use Walthers or Atlas track rather than than Peco. Both systems and nearer to full size than Peco in terms of geometry & sleepers look less stubby than Peco. Murphy Models, Bachmann and modern Hornby wheel profiles are based on an NMRA standard and a gauge is readily available for checking back to backs and other critical dimensions. Full size point are specified in terms of switch length and crossing angle and the same principal applies regardless of gauge full size or model. A HO 1:4 point is similar in overall length to a Peco medium radius point a 1:6 to Peco large radius. I installed some full size point and crossing work on a narrow gauge line in the UK we found that 1:6 was the minimum for a 2-6-2T loco and bogie coaches 1:4 for 4 coupled locos and wagons.

I like the crossing keepers cottage, they were such a feature of the Waterford-Lismore line. All that's needed is herself looking after the gates a lineside vegetable garden and washing line

The MGWR and GNR amalgamating is an interesting one opening up the possibility of greater competition between Belfast and Dublin for cattle traffic from the Midlands and West to either Belfast or Dublin and competition with the GSWR for freight traffic to Limerick. Amalgamation of the two companies and take over the SLNCR would have opened up the prospect of through Belfast & Sligo passenger services, extending the Belfast-Cavan passenger trains to Mullingar. A bit like the LNER woks at Doncaster and Darlington it would have made sense to let Broadstone and Dundalk continue overhauling and re-building existing classes until larger more powerful locos were needed. Amalgamating with the MGWR would have probably strengthened the financial position of the GNR and put off the question of nationalisation for a few years. The GNR was in a worse financial position than the GSR in the 1930s, the MGWR lines from Dublin to Galway, Westport and Sligo were likely to have been more profitable, than the GNR Derry Road and Cross Country lines in Northern Ireland, operating in a monopoly position with heavy livestock traffic and a much longer line haul