Mayner

I found the CMEs Office at Inchacore pretty good in terms of drawings but not much help in terms of general information. The 3rd edition Doyle & Hirch Locomotives and Rolling Stock of CIE & NIR probably has the most accurate details as no new wagons were built after the introduction of the Shale Wagons in the early 80s

I hadn't noticed the concreted hard standing before nicely modelled with the expansion joints and dummies. There must be a large creamery Co-Op locally to justify the investment inbound fertiliser, possibly the Ratio gantry to handle outbound butter & cheese for the UK market in insulated FM or those new fangeled ISO containers. The station might even stay open under Railplan 80 Maybe it the signal box but to me the station has a look of the GN about it, but still plausible if the Cork & Waterford had been built by an independent company in the 1850-60.

Nice looking job of a difficult prototype, Smallbrook Studios do some interesting stuff http://www.smallbrookstudio.co.uk/. I remember reading a piece in Irish Railfans News that a number of spoil wagons were trialled as ballast wagons on CIE. I understand that the spoil wagons belonged to the NI Department of Transport rather than NIR. After the contract the Department was anxious for a buyer as NIR did not have a need or have the means to pay for the wagons.

The Ratio OO 9'wb wagon chassis & LNWR open and p.w. wagon kits include the option of RCH and the old style single shoe brake gear similar to that used in Ireland http://www.peco-uk.com/product.asp?strParents=3340,3344&CAT_ID=3350&P_ID=17872 The LNWR wagons are good value a bit short but look reasonably close to ex GSWR wagons that lasted into the 1960s & 70s. 51L Models produce a number of Scottish wagons with single lever brake gear http://www.51l.co.uk/crwcom.htm#brake levers and lever guides

As we have looked at most of the main line stations on the North Kerry, I thought we might as well look at the North Kerry Yard in Tralee and the Fenit branch, both were important in terms of beet traffic and the North Kerry yard continued to handle keg and container traffic after the main line closed. The GSWR and the North Kerry originally had separate stations on either side of Edward Street the connecting line and level crossing was a late addition, the North Kerry station closed several years after the GSWR absorbed the WLWR. Apart from the ESSO sidings and the private siding into the mill there seems to have been little change since WLWR days. The WLWR engine shed and turntable appears to have been on the north side of the line on the western side of Edward Street. There appears to have been a large goods shed on the loading bank that was later used for loading sugar beet traffic a 16t gantry was installed for container traffic in the 1960s. I griced the year with my brand new Instamatic camera in 77or 78. Rock Street cabin was still manned although traffic to Fenit and Listowel had ceased. A couple of flat wagons with keg containers and a CIE Insulated container were positioned on the gantry road, a large number of H wagons were placed on the sidings on either side of the running road and loop. Interestingly a couple of wagons were on the mill siding. I checked out Fenit, Ardfert and Abbeydorney the following day, when got back the yard was largely clear of wagons. Heuston-Tralee was the last freight service to go over to Liner Train operation in 79 or 80. A coupling broke on the last loose coupled goods out of Heuston with most of the train running away down the Gullet into the passenger station. [attachment=:name] The Fenit branch was sponsored and built by Tralee interests as an alternative to the Ship Canal, before the opening of the Leibherr crane factory the port was never very successful depending on coal and timber traffic for local merchants. The port struggled to raise capital to maintain or renew infrastructure, the port closed to commercial traffic due to structural problems with the pier causeway and was famous in the 60s for using steam cranes to load Leibherr Tower Cranes for export. The line was originally worked by the W&L using a contractors tank loco that was re-gauged from standard gauge, the Harbour Commissioners later bought a standard Hunslet industrial 0-6-0ST which became GSWR 299 which was later used on the Cork Harbour sidings and the Timoleague & Courtmacsharry in West Cork. CIE looked at using 299 or No90 or 100 but used an ex MGWR 0-6-0T 560 surplus from the Waterford & Tramore. 560 was used up to 1963 after which a G611 or E401 was used from Tralee. The G appears to have been used to move cuts of wagons between the pier and station for collection by a C Class or other loco sent from Tralee. Rail traffic from the pier seems to have got sparse the last train is said to have been for a ship load of starch diverted from another port in the early 70s. The line seems to have been busiest for beet with most of the traffic from Spa the wagons would have had to be brought to Fenit to run round. The buildings at Fenit appear to have been similar to Ardfert and other smaller North Kerry Stations, the station building appears to have been demolished following the end of regular passenger services, the goods shed later demolished to extend the beet loading bank. The loco shed and turntable had gone by the 1970s, but the footbridge with very attractive stonework and the base of the water tank survives. Fenit was famous for its self propelled steam cranes which were used into the mid 1960s, I am not sure if they were capable of moving wagons, but one of the photos in A J O'Rourkes North Kerry book shows a crane parked at the end of the platform road by the buffer stops with a number positioned on the pier. The pier would make an interesting tabeau especially with a small tank loco or a G and a couple of self propelled cranes scuttling about. Perhaps the Jordan Steam Shovel (rigged as a crane) on a Black Beetle motor bogie.

Introduced in 1966 as a general purpose flat wagon these were the 1st of the CIE family of 20T flats. The wagons were intended mainly for palletised and container traffic and fitted with swing down stanchions and tie downs for securing a load and were retro-fitted with cuplocks when ISO container standards were finalised in 1969. The wagons were used for palletised keg, fertiliser and container traffic until the widespread introduction of bogie flats and purpose built fertiliser wagons and keg flats in the mid-late 70s. 256436 series flats formed the basis of the bagged cement and beet doubles, others ended up in departmental use on the cable train, sleeper wagons, one was fitted with a Hiab for use with the S&E department on the DART electrification and signalling. The original intention was a detailing fret for the Prestwin with floor, bufferbeams, brake gear and solebar detail, in the end a complete kit turned out to be simpler and more effective. Test Build 25436 Series Flat The test assembly went together very well all of the critical components are self locating with slots and tabs. I need to look at the decking chequer plate ended up as polka dots and re-jig the buffer beams. I am looking at detail castings for this and the 22'6" flat I have the masters for the spring and dampers somewhere, MJT do reasonably close roller bearing axlebox and buffers. At this stage I am not sure on cost possible release date Autumn (Northern) 2014

I bought a couple of Base Toys Leyland Comets from Hatton's after Christmas I thought I had to do something when I saw the photo of the CIE Leyland Comet tipper, but chickened out on the 3 way tipping mechanism. The assembly is fold up no need for solder about 30 minutes work. If anyone is interested let me know and I will look at costs

Its a bit of a chicken and egg situation the railways only survived because the Government gave CIE a virtual monopoly on land transport and neither of the two main political parties could afford to discommode the public sector unions. Most of the many reports found that it would cost less to let the railways to run down gradually rather than improving services or complete closure. The more passengers IE carries the greater the loss as none of the services come cover their operating costs. The Irish people have to decide whether they are prepared to pay higher taxes to subsidise rail travellers or breakup CIE open public transport up to competition.

Killala seems an odd spot for a power station unless imported biomass is just a stop gap, or perhaps there are good tax breaks for setting up a "renewable" energy plant. A 50MW the proposed plant is less than half the size of Edenderry and 1/8 the size of Drax so is unlikely to need long trains of covered hopper wagons or a rebuild of the line to Killala. Funnily enough locally produced industrial Ethanol was once an important traffic on the Ballina Branch, typically the plant was built alongside the line near Lough Conn, typically both CIE & Chemicals Teo. were allergic to a private siding serving the plant. Some how or other the DNGR had no problem providing a siding to the Cooley Pant

I had one of the original whitemetal flats and a bubble from around 1982-3?. Don't forget low sales volumes was one of the main reasons MIR closed up. Most of the kits were upgraded, re-tooled from whitemetal to resin with improved detail and simplified assembly. A rtr model needs to sell in 1000s, resin 50, whitemetal and etched brass about half that amount

Are Coca Cola planning to convert the Ballina Beverages plant to burn biomass or has someone built a power station? Presumably the "biomass" is sawmill waste from the US & Canada compressed into pellets and export 5000-6000 miles. Hardly likely to reduce the carbon footprint compared to electricity produced from coal or natural gas. Funnily enough ESB converted some of its sod peat stations such as Cahirciveen to run on biomass (willow and other quick growing trees) more than 30 years ago.

The long brake levers are a standard Irish Railway (IRCH) design used on most wagons about 1910 up to the md-1950, the van with the short brake lever is on a Bulleid Triangulated underframe standard for wagons and vans built by CIE in the mid 1950s. Both vans have independent either side brakes acting on one shoe per axle. The main difference between the two gears was that CIE went for a round rather than a flat section pushrod.

David. I never cease to be amazed by the speed and quality of your work. Having two Leitrim class on the layout really helps to transform it from a model to a working railway. Brilliant stuff

I could have said it differently my question to Richie about taking on Dapol as to bring a bit of reality to the discussion, rather than take a pop at Richie, his modelling ability or creatitivity. While the plasticard chassis really looked the part and is an ideal material fo scratchbuiding, I don't see hand or possibly profile cut plasticard chassis kit as a realistic option for batch or mass production. The group has more or less established that unless someone is prepared to put up 40-50K a massed produced rtr model of an Irish wagon is unlikely, commissioning someone like Parkside Dundas to produce a plastic wagon kit is also likely to be expensive. So this leaves up with the Dapol Prestwin and the small range of be-spoke Irish RTR wagons and kits which given the size of the market are never going to be cheap. The low cost and the huge variety of RTR available in the UK is mainly as a result of a battle for market share between Bachmann & Hornby, commissioners like Dapol, Heljan and Murphy Models have carved out niche markets where people are prepared a premium for what are mainly collectors items mainly unsuccessful early BR Modernisation Scheme and Irish diesels. The best we can hope for is that the 50 plus year old Prestwin toolings hold up, Parkside have produced custom wagon and chassis kits for other suppliers, but a premium would apply to a smallish run of say bagged cement or a beet doubles. I don’t see a plastic chassis as a viable option for a 4 wheel skeletal flat there is no place to hide a weight. A 25654 steel floored flat is with the engravers, these were the first modern CIE container flats quite complex wagons with steel floors fold down stanchions and various tied down straps as they were built shortly before the twistlock was invented. I am finalising the 22’6” flat I first prepared in 2012. Both wagons are fold up and slot and tab assembly so soldering will not be necessary. Both wagons will have the correct width frame and are suitable for 21mm or OO I would expect to release both wagon kits later in the year, to keep the cost down I will probably sell these without castings most of which are currently available from MJT in the UK. 22'6" Flat test build Garfield's point about it being no more expensive to get right as wrong is only partially true, while there are a few horrors out there, producing an accurate model or a buildable kit takes a lot of additional time and money. I will probably get through on these wagons with one maybe two design revisions, but even with all the information in the world we tend to miss the blindingly obvious

I am not sure how I missed that one, the yard would have been very difficult to shunt without the second crossover.

There was an article on the layout in the Railway Modeller 72 or 73. Although there were a couple of scratch built locos by Harry Connaugton including a GNR compound, a number of locos ran on Triang-Hornby L1 & Jinty chassis, The layout was converted to automatic operation displayed at Shannon Airport for a year or so and ran for about 6 months in the Kilkenny shop durinng he late 70s

Modelling Irish railways is either a matter of ignoring the gauge issue like many modellers in order to get something running, or deciding whether to run with an established scale and vary the gauge, or use an established gauge and vary the scale. Unless you are absolutely determined to scratchbuild everything including rolling your own rails and casting and machining wheels its probably easiest to stick with an established scale. Having a 45mm gauge garden railway and seeing Ian Ramseys U Tube videos 15mm scale Irish narrow gauge with some of John Amstrongs live steam Irish locos and stock would be tempting or even an 8.6mm scale B141 or C Class, but I would probably need to take out a second mortgage and what do I do with all my small scale stuff. While the OO/EM/S4 thing in the UK is complicated enough Large Scale American G Scale is a real can of worms with 3' gauge narrow gauge stock modelled in three different scales 1:20.5, 1:22.5 & 1:24 all running on 45mm Gauge 1 track, not helped with Aristo Craft doing a Henry Greenly and producing a large scale OO with American standard gauge models produced over size to "make them look more impressive" and other manufacturers following suit. Somewhere or other I have a presentable Schull & Skibereen Erin bought second hand from the UK modelled in plasticard on a Toymobile chassis, built like a battleship boiler fittings formed from bits of tube, bolts, washers etc John

Very convincing I especially like the Simplex and the bus coach. I don't know about the present day even in the Mid 90s there was little in the way of Hi-Vis safety or work wear in Ireland, like most workers BNM staff (often farmers) wore their old clothes to work sometimes eve the old Sunday Suit. Depending the County the crew might break the monotony of the day with a kick about with a football or practice a ""puc fada" in hurling.

I am not sure if any wagons fitted with the Morton handbrake in Ireland most of the unfitted wagons had a single brake shoe on each side operated by a long lever, a small number mainly CIE Pallet Vans, GNR Bagged Cement and Private Owner Tank wagons had independent either side brakes similar to the RCH type Most of the more modern fitted wagons had a parallel motion arrangement for transmitting the motion from the brake lever to the cross shaft similar to BR wagons of the same era.

Rchie I am not sure whether your some Bluesky thinking is for producing some models for yourself or an attempt to undcut Dapol and corner the market Irish Wagon chassis kits. Whatever Popeye probably had the best answer make up a set of plasticard patterns and cast the chassis in resin http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/showthread.php/2508-Popeye-s-Workbench. RTV silicone is a lot better than maula should get 15-20 castings per mould, some wonderful solvent fumes and a lot of work cleaning up, but not as monotonus as cutting out 15-20 sets of parts from styrene. If you want the couplers to look the part why not try out a set of Smiths 3 link or Instanters wont drive you bugs coupling/uncoupling if you run fixed rakes.

Richie. Quick maybe but nothing dirty about it. We seem to have been thinking on much the same lines. Originally started out as a chequer plate floor, stanchions and bit for upgrading a Prestwin, fold up chassis on the left added after taking a closer look. Whole thing fits together with slots and tabs. Not sure of the unit price yet but a skeletal would be cheaper as it uses less material. Rocking W Irons don't really work on a skeletal, there is enough potential interest for a sprung version from the S4 modellers in the UK.

Riche Funnily enough inspired by Patrick's 27101 conversion I looked at a brass floor, buffer beams a brake gear to convert a Prestwin into a 20' flat, I came to much the same conclusion/confusion and the artwork for a brass 25436 flat is with the engravers. The aim was to produce a relatively straight forward kit designed to run on 21mm gauge, a chassis fabricated from brass is probably a better option for a flat as you haven't got the warping and shrinkage problems with casting in either whitemetal or resin. I drew this a few years ago but gave up as the 3D Printer & CAD packages don't want to talk to each other so I concentrate on etched brass and traditional pattern making. If you have mastered 3D solid modelling a 3D printed wax master for lost wax casting or a brass pattern may be a viable option for pattern making for whitemetal or resin casting, but you need to make allowance for shrinkage or expansion of the finished casting. The wax master would need cleaning up to remove ridges from the printing, which is really no different from machining and finishing a metal pattern

My interest in Irish railways was pretty much ingrained in childhood experience, my grandfather on the mothers side was a driver on the Midland but had died before my time, in the 60s railway did not exactly have a positive image breakdowns and line closures, a sunday afternoon walk over pat of the Meath Line before it was lifted. Ours was very much a car family but got the occasional squint over the railway wall when we were driving somewhere, despite this I got interested in model trains, and persisted even if my parents hoped I would grow out of it The thin end of the wedge was when I persuaded my mother to buy a copy of Model Railway News in 66 or 67, there was no putting the genie back in the bottle. The first Irish Layout that really inspired me was Malahide and Dromin Junction it was on display in the Kilkenny Shop in Nassau Street, around the same time I started reading the works of Iain Rice I could not et anything to work but his writing as like a breath of fresh air Around the same time an article on Castle Rackrent appeared in the Modeller a minimum space WLWR broad gauge layout, which later morphed into something much bigger about 100'. I even got to see the original while living in Scotland. A couple of years ago I was surprised that 30 years later he layout is still going strong and regularly operated Time I stopped musing and did something to get something running I have a trio of Murphy Models B141s an AEC railcar set built from Worsley Works parts and a few kit built coaches, wagons and vans. Looking at steam the Lines North & West of Limerick were mainly worked by J15s with small 4-4-0s & MGWR locos appearing North of Limerick. I have a pair of J15s, a Midland Tank, some GNR locos plus some kits stashed away. All need some work control will probably stay analogue. Most of these kits were assembled 15-20 years ago the dilemma is whether to concentrate m energies on building new models to current best practice design or my existing loco stock.

Although Abbeyfeale was a much smaller town than Newcastle or Listowel the station seems to have been reasonably important in terms of traffic serving as a railhead or a large area of North Kerry and West Limerick, at one time there were even plans for narrow gauge feeder lines to serve the town and villages south of the man line. During GSR days in addition to the three daily through passenger trains Abbeyfeale was the terminus off a daily passenger train from Limerick. The working was unusual by GSR standards worked by a tank loco and involving bunker first running as Abbeyfeale did not have a turntable. Abbeyfeale again acted as a terminus for a short while in the early 70s when regular operation over Barnagh ceased and the Limerick-Tralee goods trains were replaced by trice weekly trip workings from Limerick to Newcastle and Tralee to Abbeyfeale. Operation over Barnagh resumed and Abbeyfeale was served from Limerick for a short period following a bridge strike at the western end of the station. There is a photo of a supertrain livery B201 hauling one of these trains through Ballingarne in AJ O'Rourke's North Kerry book. Traffic to Abbeyfeale appears to have ceased with the ending of sundries traffic some time before official closure. The buildings and structures at both stations appear to be to a standard design for small stations on the North Kerry, including, Barnagh, Devon Road, Lixnaw and simply shouts out North Kerry. Abbeydorney originally had just a single siding the goods loop appears to have been added in GSWR days to break up the long section between Listowel and Tralee. Loads were restricted to 25 wagons between Tralee and Ardfert with heavier loads allowed westward to Tralee. A high beet loading bank appears to added in CIE days allowing beet to be tipped directly into wagons, Abbeydorney a loading ramp and possibly a mechanical shovel may have been have been used for loading beet from ground level bins. The ramp could only be used by one vehicle and was too steep for a truck or tractor and trailer. Signalling at Abbeydorney was interesting, while most of the shunting signals from the loop to the main line were probably the original with an upright revolving lamp housing, movements from the yard to the main line were controlled by a modern(ish) disc signal on a standard GSR/CIE galvanised steel post. from memory the disc was a disc rather than the square pattern often used by CIE. Next episode I will look at my most likely 4mm plan a simple U shaped design with two stations and an N gauge double decker walk around design to fit a similar space.

Really impressive rake, I think the look far better reasonably clean than heavily weathered,