jhb171achill

Simply the fact that they didn’t get round to repainting literally every single vehicle by the time the black’n’tan started to make its presence felt. The last dark green passenger-carrying vehicles in regular use, if we discount several narrow gauge vehicles, seem to have been several old relics in West Cork and at least one 6-wheeled brake third on the Valentia line.

In "time" terms, possible. The 121s appeared in 1961 and the very last six-wheelers were withdrawn in early 1963. However, there were only so many 121s, and they were actually used a lot on freight in their first year or two; passenger usage was all main line. None ever worked regularly on branches, and six-wheelers were by then only to be found on the Ballinrobe, Loughrea, ballaghadarreen and Kenmare branches, all of which were fully steam worked until after the last six wheelers were withdrawn. However, every good rule has an exception. Cork retained a couple of rakes of the six wheelers right to the end, and they were retained for use on Youghal excursions. It is therefore at least theoretically possible that a 121 hauled one of these - it would have to have only been in the summer of 1962. I'd almost lay money on it that they didn't, but they COULD have - and as always, "Rule 1" applies! I've an 00 Works CBSCR saddle tank on Dugort Harbour until the end of steam in '63, some sixteen years after the last of the real thing was scrapped! There's another exception. Several ex-GSWR FULL passenger brakes wre in use until 1968-70, and these are the inspiration for the Hattons black'n'tan brakes. THESE certainly WERE hauled by 121s, in particular on the galway mail trains - but in black'n'tan days. Correct - a 121 hauling anything in the darker green livery wouldn't have happened - it was not to be seen on main lines by the time 121s appeared. Lighter green in the circumstances described above. Of course, when 121s first appeared in grey, ALL passenger stock, including the most modern laminates, were green, or else the short-lived "silver". The earliest vehicles in black and tan started to appear when the 121s were some 18 months old.

Noticed today that one of the DD sets had blue 216, and another had one of the zebras, either 231 or 233.

Had forgotten about the Worsley etch, right enough…. probably easy enough to put together…. had a look at their website, though, and can't find it. Maybe they've stopped doing it? Power bogie an issue, of course, as you suggest!

Correct. That one was previously green, and as far as I am aware it's the only one which ever got the black'n'tan livery. I've no idea how many were green - again, possibly only one. I'm aware that one kept GSR maroon well into CIE days, but I do not know the details.

They only had 4 or 5 of them........... and, of course, they weren't out'n'about every day of the week. Presumably, if one was prepared to sacrifice chassis accuracy, a two-foot-rule-compliant one could be made up out of plasticard on a motor bogie from a diesel loco or railcar..........

Love the Lego one. Methinks I'll need one of them for Grandson171.

Somewhere, at some stage, there were comments here about modelling on of these. In the hope that it's of help, this is a pic my dad took, I believe in or about 1942, as he prepared to board it to go off and peer at track, or the underneath of a culvert or bridge somewhere. I don't know where it is, though if anyone here does, please advise! the GSR had several of these. For modellers, they were painted maroon with black chassis and roof. Lining, perhaps obviously, was paleish yellow, with yellow lettering shaded in red as per GSR norm. The GSR had several including one with the same body but narrow gauge wheels - this spent much time on the C & L, where Senior used it once to inspect the track. CIE inherited them, and at least a couple lasted into the 1960s, being replaced by those yellow Wickham things, two of which grace the rails at the Downs of Patrick. In CIE days they wore the dark green livery (never repainted in the lighter carriage shade), but I have a vague recollection of seeing one, or something like it, at one time in what looked like a varnished finish. I could be completely wrong on this, but I wonder if one was ever re-panelled and perhaps re-panelled in plain varnished sheeting of something like marine plywood?

Parental Advice Warning: Do not read the following, if you are Leslie or Galteemore.... Must say I thought that the UTA's black loco livery - which I remember well - suited formerly BLUE GNR 4.4.0s very well..... (I'll go off and flog myself now with a thorn branch till I bleed all over...)

Perfect! I will ping him accordingly. I think I'll put one at Castletown West. Mayner points out that they appeared from the early (rather than late) sixties, so it will suit me all the better. Even if I can't get the right types of containers for a while, it will look well. One essential thing, given my preference for a scene to look realistic, is that it can be removed from the layout, or placed back, with ease, as when operating with six-wheelers and 100% steam (steam fleet now eight strong) it would look out of place. But that's a nitpicking detail.... (even to me!)

Learned folks; As one whose ignorance of modern practice knows no bounds, may I ask a question..... The very earliest gantry cranes for lifting containers on and off wagons started to appear, as far as I am aware, in the late 1960s. Following the 1973 Rail Development Plan, a few more started springing up in various rural localtions. Is there a suitable model of something like this? I was thinking of 1965-75 period, and of a type that would be the smallest sort of gantry that was used in Ireland.

Actually, without wanting to derail this thread; I've an idea. As many here will be well aware, once containers and fitted wagons started appearing, and passenger trains started to be strings of the exact same type of aircon, air-braked, tube-like vehicles, my own interests started waning; on the retirement of the last 141s, I'm afraid that nothing in the modern scene is of the slightest interest to me. But - horses for courses..... However, there is, of course, and exception to every rule. I was tempted to get one 141 in supertrain livery, which if it dwelt among an otherwise entirely black'n'tan fleet, would be fine for the timescale I'm interested in - the fictitious Dugort Harbour managed to last, like the Loughrea line, until about 1975. So - by this time the "Rail Development Plan" is in its infancy, and those older, smaller, grey-coloured container gantries are appearing in various places. No reason why Dugort mighn't have had one for its last few years. Suppose I was to get some sort of gantry, which could be reasonably placed ON the layout when it's 1975, but removed other times, what sort of gantry would I get? Any container gantry experts out there? Such installations are itrems that I do not know the first thing about. If not Dugort, once Castletown West, currently plain track on plain boards, gets its scenery, I might put one there. It has to be removable, as it won't fit with steam engines!

Dang! Now I'll have to get a container gantry for Dugort Harbour!

They're just past Adavoyle right now, but there are cows on the line at Kellystown, and a man with a milk churn......

Indeed! The VERY low ones seem to have been primarily a GSWR thing..... I think Mallow was the last, still like that in early 1980s anyway.

Woww - this AND Hattons!

Yes - good move indeed. I'm hoping to get this done fairly soon - something of this nature anyway. Need to get stuff moved out of the room to get at it first! (I'll try to post the odd photo in the meantime!)

Wow! Just had a look at their "rummage sale" - there's pretty much nothing left of use. When i looked last night, still a good bit of stuff but couldn't order because the site was overloaded............... such is life.

They'd be much the same - if that modern - as any of the glass-and-steel-and-concrete things you'd get across the water in Kingcharlesland. I daresay some of the British manufacturers might therefore have something suitable?

Hornby were doing their own six-wheelers, of much the same design; in fact, one of the hattons folks suggested to me that hornby had "stolen their idea". I'm not going to get into that discussion, but has anyone here ever seen a Hornby one and a Genesis one close up, together? I wonder what differences there are - visually, on websites, it seems little or nothing. Thus, might there be some mileage in the two - rivals though they were in regard not only to six-wheel carriages, but other things too - combining forces on this one? It seems to me that should there be any merit in the above, Hornby would be a logical successor. No point in an Irish manufacturer taking this up, as the design of these coaches is not Irish - it just happens that their generic design closely resembles GSWR vehicles of the same type, many of which lasted well into CIE times. (As an aside, the equivalent vehicles on other Irish rauilways, e.g. BCDR, BNCR, GNR(I), MGWR, WLWR*, CBSCR & DSER were of entirely different designs, unlike any British vehicle). (* The WLWR six-wheelers were reasonably close to the bow-ended GWR and some (English) Midland Railway stock, but kits of those are generally 4-wheel long wheelbase, a style of passenger vehicle which we didn't have here).

Me too. When the announcement was made their second-hand section and closing sale sections were full of good stuff at good prices. Going to have a look now (if i can) to see what's left - was after some scenic stuff. I wish them well.

Operational possibilities for this are quite varied given the quiet setting. I understand it's 1960s. So, you've excursions from Dublin to start with. That could be anything from a GNR railcar set (with one carrige each in black'n'tan, green and GNR navy & cream; or some such other combination!) to a loco hauled train. And here's where we get variety. Anything from a GNR steam loco (up to 1963), or an A, C or (post-1963) B141 would go in there. Carriages could be just about anything. You'll get ex-GN mainline stock (brown, even; or blacknktan or green), CIE laminates of various types, even a Craven or two later on, Bredins and (probably quite often) old ex-GSWR wooden-bodied stock as used latterly on Donabate seaside excursions etc. At the end, old GNR vans, new tin vans..... If the place still sees any goods traffic, a few Provincial "H" vans will deal with that. Could there have been any reason to load the odd Bullied open with sand? Now and again a UTA excursion can arrive. Ex-NCC and ex-GNR coaching stock in UTA livery, with a "Jeep" or ex-GNR 0.6.0 up front would seem appropriate. Also, ex-GNR railcars in UTA livery. QUITE a mix; thus, an excellent choice for a "mini"-layout.

With respect, and the layout was as I've said before an excellent job overall - scenery is amazing as many others often comment - you had called twice to measure the higher legs long before delivery... but it's here now and functioning!

The 141s didn't; the murphy details were correct. The only way to tell them apart externally from the 181s was that (initially at any rate), apart from the obvious number, 141s had no grilles but 181s did. A|lso, as originally delivered, and you'll see this correctly with the Murphy ones again, the initial appearance of the 141s did not have a CIE "roundel", though they would acquire them at forst repaint; whereas 181s had them from new. As a separate issue, I am unaware of any 141s still with no logos on them when repainted into "supertrain" livery after 1972.

That’s exactly the plan! First, though, to try to get back into that room past all the stuff that’s been put in it!