NCC W Class Mogul

[Saint Johnstoun]

Creating models of W class Mogul and WT Class 2-6-4 Tanks using parts from existing models.   The W class mogul is a heavily modified Fowler 2-6-4 tank body, Class 5 cab and a shortened Stanier 4000 gallon tender body mounted on a Fowler underframe of the correct wheelbase.  I am awaiting the arrival of another body to deal with the WT Class 2-6-4 tank.   I already have a GSR K class Mogul.  The lower boiler sides came from another 2-6-4 tank body I used the cab from to create a SECR River Class tank engine.

Edited April 1, 2022 by Saint Johnstoun
More information

[jhb171achill]

Very impressive! Good to see more NCC / UTA stuff here.

[DoctorPan]

Looks great, can I just ask where you got the top feed from? 

[Saint Johnstoun]

The top feed was one I had in stock and modified slightly.   I think it came from the good old Crownline days.  I need to source a further supply as I will need one for my WT tank.  The smokebox wheel and handle are available from Caley Coaches.

[Saint Johnstoun]

The top feed was one I had in stock and modified slightly.   I think it came from the good old Crownline days.  I need to source a further supply as I will need one for my WT tank.  The smokebox wheel and handle are available from Caley Coaches.

Top feeds are available from Phoenix Precision Paints 

[DoctorPan]

4 minutes ago, Saint Johnstoun said:

The top feed was one I had in stock and modified slightly.   I think it came from the good old Crownline days.  I need to source a further supply as I will need one for my WT tank.  The smokebox wheel and handle are available from Caley Coaches.

Top feeds are available from Phoenix Precision Paints 

 

Thank ye! That's my Jeep project shopping list completed.

[Saint Johnstoun]

I'll keep you posted re my own Jeep conversion.   I want to progress both together so when it comes to painting I can airbrush both at the same time.   I only have a body for the Jeep but have a Fowler 2-6-4 tank chassis I can borrow.

WT Class etc..doc

Edited March 28, 2022 by Saint Johnstoun

[Andy Cundick]

For the topfeed try 247 developments they do a Stanier one.Andy.

[Saint Johnstoun]

You need to phone 247 Developments to order but Pheonix you can order online.   However both concerns give good serice.

[Saint Johnstoun]

Drawing as a PDF 

WT Class etc..pdf

[Saint Johnstoun]

Preliminary work on the Fowler 2-6-4 body to create a Jeep.  Bunker cut down and cabside cut away.  Cabside from scrap Hornby Princess Coronation body inserted to create side window cab.

The cab was an after effect of the creation of 46202 Princess Anne by combining Princess Royal and Coronation parts.

 

[Saint Johnstoun]

Preliminary work on the Fowler 2-6-4 body to create a Jeep.  Bunker cut down and cabside cut away.  Cabside from scrap Hornby Princess Coronation body inserted to create side window cab.

The cab was an after effect of the creation of 46202 Princess Anne by combining Princess Royal and Coronation parts.

There is quite a lot of further work involved.   The rear end and bunker have to be constructed and the front end needs altering - the open arrangement needs the front 'wings' lowering and the centre portion cutting back to show a raised portion.  Top feed needs adding and chimney changing for a Stanier one.   The lower edge of the tanks needs reprofiling.  In the end a reasonable result should be possible.

 

 

[StevieB]

I suspect there will be a good many in awe of what you’re achieving. You should get the finished bodies scanned in order to produce printed versions for sale. Not everyone will have so many spare parts lying around.
 

Stephen

[Saint Johnstoun]

Progress.   Running board and tank bottom reprofiled, front end rebuilt, basic structure for bunker assembled.

 

 

[Robert Shrives]

This is great work and I am  sure bound to get the good gents and IRM towers to create an rtr version which will be announced as yours leave the paint shop....  

I really look forward to seeing updates as these are icons of the Northern scene.

Robert   

[Mayner]

1 hour ago, Robert Shrives said:

This is great work and I am  sure bound to get the good gents and IRM towers to create an rtr version which will be announced as yours leave the paint shop....  

I really look forward to seeing updates as these are icons of the Northern scene.

Robert   

I went through a similar phase about 20 years ago assembling kits of several British Railways steam locos only for Hornby or Bachmann to announce or release a rtr version 6-12 months later, though I think the odds of IRM producing a rtr model of a Mogul or Jeep are somewhat longer than a BR steam loco.

[Galteemore]

9 hours ago, Robert Shrives said:

 

I really look forward to seeing updates as these are icons of the Northern scene.

Robert   

Depends how you define ‘North’! WT class effectively also rang down the curtain on the final days of GN main line steam; they were thus, for some three years, the last real active steam in the Republic. Moguls were also occasional visitors to Dublin.
 

So they both did a fair amount of cross border work, even before preservation days - and we will hopefully see a Mogul in Dublin again one day.

The extra braking capacity the Moguls had though,being tender locos, meant that they tended to do Derry Road goods duties more 

Edited March 31, 2022 by Galteemore

[Saint Johnstoun]

They are certainly two locos crying out to be made available as RTR.   My interest is as part of showing the development of the 2-6-4 tank from the original Midland Railway proposal of 1905 through the SECR K 'River' Class right up to the BR Standard Class 4 tanks and the WT 'Jeeps'.  The plot thickens due to the K class Moguls in Ireland and the Metropolitan K class tanks in the UK.

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by Saint Johnstoun
Correction

[Saint Johnstoun]

They are certainly two locos crying out to be made available as RTR.   My interest is as part of showing the development of the 2-6-4 tank from the original Midland Railway proposal of 1905 through the SECR K 'River' Class right up to the BR Standard Class 4 tanks and the WT 'Jeeps'.  The plot thickens due to the K class Moguls in Ireland and the Metropolitan K class tanks in the UK.

More progress today and I have 'borrowed' a chassis from one of my Fowler 2-6-4 tanks.  I need to source a chassis for the Jeep.  UTA transfers arrived this morning but I await a further supply of top feeds to complete things.

 

 

Edited March 31, 2022 by Saint Johnstoun

[Saint Johnstoun]

I'm dedicating these two models to the memory of my good friend Rev. Fergus Harris who died on Tuesday and was a great fan of Irish Railways.

[jhb171achill]

19 minutes ago, Saint Johnstoun said:

I'm dedicating these two models to the memory of my good friend Rev. Fergus Harris who died on Tuesday and was a great fan of Irish Railways.

Those are absolutely excellent models!

3 hours ago, Saint Johnstoun said:

They are certainly two locos crying out to be made available as RTR.   My interest is as part of showing the development of the 2-6-4 tank from the original Midland Railway proposal of 1905 through the SECR K 'River' Class right up to the BR Standard Class 4 tanks and the WT 'Jeeps'.  The plot thickens due to the K class Moguls in Ireland and the Metropolitan K class tanks in the UK.

 

 

Excellent info…

Minor point; I think the first 2.6.4T “Jeeps” were 1946…..

[Galteemore]

The design of the WT was also signed off under Ivatt rather than Stanier, too. Appropriate, given that Ivatt was born in the land of the 5’3”!

 Nice touch re Rev Harris too. Excellent models.
 

Although very much of the LMS ‘house style’ , the NCC locos are possessed of deceptively subtle differences. These you have nicely captured. 

Edited March 31, 2022 by Galteemore

[Saint Johnstoun]

33 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

Those are absolutely excellent models!

Excellent info…

Minor point; I think the first 2.6.4T “Jeeps” were 1946…..

The design was discussed as early as 1940 but the first firm mention appears to be 1944 when work was started on the drawings.  Dates can be a pain to define exactly.   I understand the original thoughts were for more Moguls but Major Frank Pope, who took over from Malcolm Spier suggested the tank version.   It is interesting that the WTs have some features more akin to the Fairburn 2-6-4 tanks like the cutaway front end and the open steps.   But for the fact it was desirable to have commonality with the W class boilers, I have often wondered whether taper boilers were considered?   

[jhb171achill]

23 minutes ago, Saint Johnstoun said:

……..But for the fact it was desirable to have commonality with the W class boilers, I have often wondered whether taper boilers were considered?   

A very interesting point, yes - I don’t know, but Seagoebox of this parish might?

[seagoebox]

The LMS had used taper boilers since 1933, the Jeeps like the Moguls always had boilers of the parallel type, indeed the W and WT boilers were "non-standard" in LMS terms, when under Stanier the taper boiler was commonplace.

The boilers were interchanged between Moguls and Jeeps, I think at least two Jeeps, certainly no 50 and 51 had Mogul boilers towards the end.

[airfixfan]

22 hours ago, Saint Johnstoun said:

They are certainly two locos crying out to be made available as RTR.   My interest is as part of showing the development of the 2-6-4 tank from the original Midland Railway proposal of 1905 through the SECR K 'River' Class right up to the BR Standard Class 4 tanks and the WT 'Jeeps'.  The plot thickens due to the K class Moguls in Ireland and the Metropolitan K class tanks in the UK.

 

 

Do not forget the CDR 2-6-4T locos!

[Saint Johnstoun]

The CDR locos have no direct connection with those on the list I have provided above apart from the wheel arrangement.

[Saint Johnstoun]

How it's done 1.   One minor detail is that the top feed has to be added when one arrives.

[Saint Johnstoun]

How it's done 2.

[StevieB]

I suspect there will be a good many in awe of what you’re achieving. You should get the finished bodies scanned in order to produce printed versions for sale. Not everyone will have so many spare parts lying around.
 

Stephen

Very helpful.

Stephen

[jhb171achill]

Inspirational stuff!

In terms of finishing, does anyone know if correct UTA lining is available?

Many UTA loco and coach models seem to have yellow lining - possibly influenced by the RPSI’s own Whitehead carriage livery (which is not, nor was ever intended to be, a replica of UTA) - rather than actual UTA style - red/straw*/red on coaches and red/pale yellow on locos.

 

(* a pale beige/cream colour)

I should add, of course, that NCC lining was straw & maroon - very different indeed. The Fry model of No. 5 shows that up well….

[Saint Johnstoun]

I have UTA crests and roundels courtesy a friend who does bus transfers   I have separate red and straw lining on 'Pressfix' sheets and the only way one seems that you can do it is to apply the red and straw separately.

[seagoebox]

There is some useful information in NIL (New Irish Lines) magazines, articles by Colm Flanagan...

Hornby Fowler to Jeep conversion, Vol 3 no 5, May 2004.

Building an NCC Mogul from the Fowler tank, Vol 3 no 6, Nov 2004

The Mk2 Jeep and Mogul, Vol 4 no 2 Nov 2005

 

[Hadren Railway]

They also have another article detailing how to make a Jeep from either the Fowler or Standard 4 tanks in Issue 7 from Summer 1994.

[seagoebox]

It is all out there,.... its just knowing where to look !