Cork Suburban Upgrade

[irishrailways52]

nothing left of it now

[Darrman]

The rumour mill is spinning: a piece in the Examiner quotes an Irish Rail official as saying reopening to Youghal hasn't been ruled out. He also suggested putting in a bus lane! All of these would be next to the cyclists.

Personally, I think the smart thing to do is crack on with the current plans: they're big enough. Once the line to Midelton is doubled, then go on to Youghal.

[Darrman]

The contract, worth €50 million, has been signed for design of the new stations, depot, and trains.

The Examiner has a bit more detail than the Irish Rail press release, so I'll go off of that. Stations at Blarney (and Stoneview, which is north of the old station), Monard (plans from 2001 suggested Rathpeacon sidings, take with pinch of salt as the new town wasn't built), Kilbarry (at the old station), Tivoli, Dunkettle (on North Esk yard), Ballynoe, Carrigtwohill West, Water Rock. The article says five will be built immediately while the rest will be built with the houses, without specifying which stations will be delayed.

The fleet will be up to 150 battery carriages, with charging points at the termini and depots. Aside from that, no wires. The depot location is also undetermined, with the Examiner article saying there are six candidates. RTE's report says there will be 30 five-car sets. 

The railway order application is planned for the end of 2025 and completion of works by 2030, subject to planning and funding, of course. Hopefully everything goes well.

[Georgeconna]

54 minutes ago, Darrman said:

The contract, worth €50 million, has been signed for design of the new stations, depot, and trains.

The Examiner has a bit more detail than the Irish Rail press release, so I'll go off of that. Stations at Blarney (and Stoneview, which is north of the old station), Monard (plans from 2001 suggested Rathpeacon sidings, take with pinch of salt as the new town wasn't built), Kilbarry (at the old station), Tivoli, Dunkettle (on North Esk yard), Ballynoe, Carrigtwohill West, Water Rock. The article says five will be built immediately while the rest will be built with the houses, without specifying which stations will be delayed.

The fleet will be up to 150 battery carriages, with charging points at the termini and depots. Aside from that, no wires. The depot location is also undetermined, with the Examiner article saying there are six candidates. RTE's report says there will be 30 five-car sets. 

The railway order application is planned for the end of 2025 and completion of works by 2030, subject to planning and funding, of course. Hopefully everything goes well.

bit of detail in that which say a lot,  you will be waiting another Eon for this to happen:  "plans from 2001"

On 8/2/2024 at 9:31 PM, Darrman said:

The rumour mill is spinning: a piece in the Examiner quotes an Irish Rail official as saying reopening to Youghal hasn't been ruled out. He also suggested putting in a bus lane! All of these would be next to the cyclists.

Personally, I think the smart thing to do is crack on with the current plans: they're big enough. Once the line to Midelton is doubled, then go on to Youghal.

Eamonn and the co are in Cork are down spouting nonsense, Piece is probably a press release they were told to print.

 

1 minute ago, Georgeconna said:

bit of detail in that which say a lot,  you will be waiting another Eon for this to happen:  "plans from 2001"

Eamonn and the co are in Cork are down spouting nonsense, Piece is probably a press release they were told to print.

 

 Then go on to Youghal. >>>>Article says: "or its use as a future rapid bus corridor"

[226 Abhann na Suire]

3 hours ago, Darrman said:

The contract, worth €50 million, has been signed for design of the new stations, depot, and trains.

The Examiner has a bit more detail than the Irish Rail press release, so I'll go off of that. Stations at Blarney (and Stoneview, which is north of the old station), Monard (plans from 2001 suggested Rathpeacon sidings, take with pinch of salt as the new town wasn't built), Kilbarry (at the old station), Tivoli, Dunkettle (on North Esk yard), Ballynoe, Carrigtwohill West, Water Rock. The article says five will be built immediately while the rest will be built with the houses, without specifying which stations will be delayed.

The fleet will be up to 150 battery carriages, with charging points at the termini and depots. Aside from that, no wires. The depot location is also undetermined, with the Examiner article saying there are six candidates. RTE's report says there will be 30 five-car sets. 

The railway order application is planned for the end of 2025 and completion of works by 2030, subject to planning and funding, of course. Hopefully everything goes well.

I have to say, while I would be inclined to be somewhat cynical about these kinds of things, this is brillaint progress. Stations at Blarney and Blackpool make perfect sense and will attract many commuters, and the new Transit Oriented Development at Monard will also be great. I presume the station and associated large residential development at Tivoli will be on the currently unused old docklands to the south of the Lower Glanmire Road? I’ve attached two map images of where I’m guessing the station and development here and the P+R station at Dunkettle will go… 

In terms of the order of construction, I presume Blackpool/Kilbarry, Blarney, Dunkettle, Tivoli and Ballynoe will be the 5 to be constructed first as they are the 5 that currently have a transport significance, ie some form of development already there or a large P+R opportunity and catchment with Monard, Water-Rock and Carrigtwoohil West to be built when their respective developments are kicking off…?

With regards to a depot, the docks at Tivoli could be a good location although might impact on the development as a 150 carriage depot would need to be quite large… Monard could be an ideal location; near or beside the proposed station, accommodation for the workforce in the town and a good location in terms of the network.

All in all a very exciting project and one which I do think will progress well! Construction due to start on Glounthaune to Midleton imminently apparently so it would make sense to just keep going with the projects.

One thing I do wonder about though is how they’ll built the 3 stations north of Kent to minimise impact on Dublin-Cork service which are expected to be half-hourly, at least in the peak by the time all of this is done. Maybe Clongriffin style stations, with the two stopping platforms and tracks on the outside while the two through lines pass through the centre…? 

 

Just where I’m guessing the new stations at Tivoli (centre) and Dunkettle (right off-centre) will go. If Dunkettle is built on the North Esk yard (makes perfect sense in my opinion) then with the new arrangement of the Dunkettle interchange, car access to the Park and Ride will be very easy from the M8 and N25

[Bob229]

I think Tivoli might take some time as the area is to be vacated by Port of Cork operations moving to Ringaskiddy and Marino point and the area is due for lots of development housing etc,  Dunkettle located in North Esk would be ideal as P&R but lots of containers still in the yard. Lots of development in the pipeline for Cork network good to see

[Darrman]

2 hours ago, Georgeconna said:

Then go on to Youghal. >>>>Article says: "or its use as a future rapid bus corridor"

That greenway to Youghal isn't going anywhere, whether for bus use or rail use. My own suggestions are simply that. Certainly no mention of Youghal's been made today: that article of rumours is from three months ago.

Anyway, here's the original Blarney/Monard plan, or at least a 2005 revision of it: https://web.archive.org/web/20071220084842/http://www.corkcoco.ie/co/pdf/901445608.pdf . These give southeast of the original Blarney station site, which is currently occupied by SOS 24 Hour Recovery (according to street view) and formerly by Dairygold for Blarney station and Rathpeacon sidings for Monard station. There's every possibility these have different sites in the current plans.

Another Examiner article has some extra information, but it's behind a paywall. It says Kilbarry, Water Rock and "Carrigtwohill East" (presumably meant to be West) will open sooner while Monard and Ballynoe will open later. From there I assume the park and ride stations at Blarney and Dunkettle will be in the sooner category, rounding things out to five. Blarney will "get a significant park-and-ride and terminal station ... with a third platform, a passing loop, and charging infrastructure required" and be involved with the M20 somehow, presumably via having a junction for it. Slowing of intercity services is my greatest concern, so hearing about a loop is good news. It also suggests not every train will run to Mallow. Finally, the article says the units for Cork will come from the 750 Dart carriage agreement signed with Alstom. With two orders of 95 and 90 carriages respectively, an extra 150 will put us at 335/750.

 

1 hour ago, 226 Abhann na Suire said:

Just where I’m guessing the new stations at Tivoli (centre) and Dunkettle (right off-centre) will go. If Dunkettle is built on the North Esk yard (makes perfect sense in my opinion) then with the new arrangement of the Dunkettle interchange, car access to the Park and Ride will be very easy from the M8 and N25

Those seem reasonable enough. I'd shift Tivoli a bit further west for ease of access from places such as Mayfield, but I'm looking at it from 2024 and not whatever Tivoli master plan is out there.

Old Dunkettle is completely inaccessible nowadays and the North Esk yard is well-located for a Dunkettle park and ride. It would be a lot less work compared to draining the marsh and making that the car park, plus building an access road and bridge south of the roundabout. Rail freight's probably not coming back, so we're as well off using it for something. I'd place Tivoli slightly east of its original location, around the junction with the R635, but there's still two kilometres between one end and the other of the Tivoli docks. Ultimately, I just hope there's no Kishogue jobs!

[226 Abhann na Suire]

15 hours ago, Darrman said:

It says Kilbarry, Water Rock and "Carrigtwohill East" (presumably meant to be West) will open sooner while Monard and Ballynoe will open later. From there I assume the park and ride stations at Blarney and Dunkettle will be in the sooner category, rounding things out to five. 

Blarney, Dunkettle and Kilbarry make a lot of sense to open first but Water Rock and Carrigtwoohil West..? There doesn’t seem to be an any existing development around those two areas. Although maybe they’re being tackled and built ahead while they’re doing the Midleton doubling, killing two birds with the one stone and so forth. Ballynoe actually already has housing very near to it and if they end up putting it halfway between Carrigaloe and Rushbrooke, would end up being right beside the ferry terminal to Passage West which could be an even further kind of transport catchment, maybe a sail-rail ticket into Kent…!!

15 hours ago, Darrman said:

Blarney will "get a significant park-and-ride and terminal station ... with a third platform, a passing loop, and charging infrastructure required" and be involved with the M20 somehow, presumably via having a junction for it. Slowing of intercity services is my greatest concern, so hearing about a loop is good news. It also suggests not every train will run to Mallow.

Interesting though that not all trains will run all the way to Mallow… I suppose it will already be served by Dublin-Cork trains every 30 minutes in the peak but surely some will go that far so as to give it a decent service. Where will they put the end-of-line charging equipment though, Blarney or Mallow..? I remember seeing an artists impression of the 3 stations north of Kent and they’d be a Kildare-style slewed outer platforms with a bi-directional fast track down the centre… would be nice to see a Clongriffin-style station though, but just any kind of station is progress! And a big park and ride off the N20 will also be great… just hope they don’t do an M3 Parkway job and place it AFTER the toll bridge… (side note but does anyone know does M3 Parkway get healthy usage…? I’d like to hope it does…)

15 hours ago, Darrman said:

Finally, the article says the units for Cork will come from the 750 Dart carriage agreement signed with Alstom. With two orders of 95 and 90 carriages respectively, an extra 150 will put us at 335/750.

I presume these will be the exact same as the new DARTS for ease… If so though what with the DART having its green and white livery, I wonder will they get a special red and white livery…

 

15 hours ago, Darrman said:

Those seem reasonable enough. I'd shift Tivoli a bit further west for ease of access from places such as Mayfield, but I'm looking at it from 2024 and not whatever Tivoli master plan is out there.

Old Dunkettle is completely inaccessible nowadays and the North Esk yard is well-located for a Dunkettle park and ride. It would be a lot less work compared to draining the marsh and making that the car park, plus building an access road and bridge south of the roundabout. Rail freight's probably not coming back, so we're as well off using it for something. I'd place Tivoli slightly east of its original location, around the junction with the R635, but there's still two kilometres between one end and the other of the Tivoli docks. Ultimately, I just hope there's no Kishogue jobs!

Yes that’s probably a good point about Tivoli, I have no idea about any development plans either I was just guessing where it would go but I’d say you’re right, the east end of the docks makes most sense both in terms of new and existing development. And yeah North Esk is perfect for the Park and Ride. I do believe that Park And Ride Station parking in this country should be free and subsidised by the government in favour of people switching to electric trains but that’s a whole other kettle of fish

[Branchline121]

On 25/5/2024 at 10:25 AM, 226 Abhann na Suire said:

I presume these will be the exact same as the new DARTS for ease… If so though what with the DART having its green and white livery, I wonder will they get a special red and white livery…

I think the only issue with that is the Class 231 was built by Stadler, not Alstom, although I still hope we get some Irish FLIRTs as I find them to look quite attractive, moreso than that of the ICR or 29K.

[226 Abhann na Suire]

8 minutes ago, Branchline121 said:

I think the only issue with that is the Class 231 was built by Stadler, not Alstom, although I still hope we get some Irish FLIRTs as I find them to look quite attractive, moreso than that of the ICR or 29K.

Oh no yes I’m aware the new trains will almost 100% be identical to the new DARTs, I was more including the picture of the 231s for the red and white Cork colours as a livery option!!

I do agree though hopefully we get some Flirts at some point, I see it being quite likely too, given what a flexible design they are, being adaptable to many different gauges and power supplies! A good option for the Enterprise replacements in my opinion…

[jhb171achill]

12 minutes ago, 226 Abhann na Suire said:

Oh no yes I’m aware the new trains will almost 100% be identical to the new DARTs, I was more including the picture of the 231s for the red and white Cork colours as a livery option!!

 

If they make the Caark ones red and white, boy, thye'll need to make the Dub's ones two-tone blue!

[Darrman]

Not quite the right thread, but I don't think it's worth its own and the works are partially within County Cork.

https://www.railmagazine.com/news/2024/08/06/manned-crossings-to-be-replaced-on-dublin-cork-line

Approval has finally been given to replace some level crossings: it just took over three years! It's worth noting Irish Rail's own project page has not been updated and says a decision is pending. The Irish planning system never fails to be inefficient.

 

[jhb171achill]

18 minutes ago, Darrman said:

Not quite the right thread, but I don't think it's worth its own and the works are partially within County Cork.

https://www.railmagazine.com/news/2024/08/06/manned-crossings-to-be-replaced-on-dublin-cork-line

Approval has finally been given to replace some level crossings: it just took over three years! It's worth noting Irish Rail's own project page has not been updated and says a decision is pending. The Irish planning system never fails to be inefficient.

 

This in all reality is utterly ridiculous.

In my dad's time, if he decreed that a level crossing was to be replaced, the local council got a phone call to say the railway was starting it on Monday, and it was done.

[Broithe]

The rail crash at Hixon, which killed eleven people when the train hit a transformer/transporter combination that weighed around 160 tons, resulted in the level crossing being replaced by a bridge.

It took 34 years for the bridge to be built...

[minister_for_hardship]

Scratching my head at some of the "letters to prescribed bodies", why on earth do the Arts Council and Failte Ireland need to be notified about closing level crossings?

1 hour ago, jhb171achill said:

This in all reality is utterly ridiculous.

In my dad's time, if he decreed that a level crossing was to be replaced, the local council got a phone call to say the railway was starting it on Monday, and it was done.

Yes but the world and his mother need to be able to make submissions and file objections now. Someone up in Donegal might object.

[jhb171achill]

29 minutes ago, minister_for_hardship said:

Scratching my head at some of the "letters to prescribed bodies", why on earth do the Arts Council and Failte Ireland need to be notified about closing level crossings?

Yes but the world and his mother need to be able to make submissions and file objections now. Someone up in Donegal might object.

Exactly!

[StevieB]

Over here in the UK they will be classed as statutory consultees, meaning that they will be consulted about loads of things nothing to do with them. Annoying but that’s the way it is.

Stephen

[Darrman]

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-41463925.html

Bam have been awarded the contract to double the line to Midleton. Work is due to begin at the end of September. Last train Mondays to Wednesdays 7:15pm Cork-Midleton, 7:45pm Midleton-Cork. Bus transfers after that. Work will also take place on Cork Tunnel maintenance around the same time.

I just hope this goes according to plan: we're dealing with the same people who are in charge of the mythical Events Centre here...

[Darrman]

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/arid-41478433.html

The actual beginning of works passed without comment in the media, so I'll just post this Echo article noting that the start of works and reduction in evening service was imminent. 

[Der Rechtsanwalt]

 

 

[Newtoncork]

Still can't believe that people voted for a greenway from Youghal! What a missed opportunity. 

[DERAILED]

1 hour ago, Newtoncork said:

Still can't believe that people voted for a greenway from Youghal! What a missed opportunity. 

Who voted for the greenway?

[Newtoncork]

In 2019, Cork County councillors voted unanimously to convert the line to a greenway.

[minister_for_hardship]

On 30/8/2024 at 3:34 PM, Darrman said:

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-41463925.html

Bam have been awarded the contract to double the line to Midleton. Work is due to begin at the end of September. Last train Mondays to Wednesdays 7:15pm Cork-Midleton, 7:45pm Midleton-Cork. Bus transfers after that. Work will also take place on Cork Tunnel maintenance around the same time.

I just hope this goes according to plan: we're dealing with the same people who are in charge of the mythical Events Centre here...

And the world's most expensive as yet unfinished hospital.

[Bob229]

They should have reopened the line to Youghal

[DERAILED]

3 hours ago, Newtoncork said:

In 2019, Cork County councillors voted unanimously to convert the line to a greenway.

Ah, thank you, I'm a bit out of touch with what's been going on in Cork in recent years. I see a report into the vote here: https://www.irishexaminer.com/business/arid-30897521.html

anyway it's no more than the locals deserve having voted in the same clowns in local elections for decades.

[minister_for_hardship]

Meanwhile.. door, stable, horse etc.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-41427925.html

Edited September 30 by minister_for_hardship

[Newtoncork]

Such a shame. There are many students commuting by bus every day from Castlemartyr, Killeagh and Youghal. The greenway isn't much use to them.  The traffic volumes and delays at the Dunkettle interchange haven't improved either. 

If that vote had been a couple of years later, it would never had been for a greenway.