gm171 kk Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 Would anyone have any information on the fertiliser traffic to Derry? I have only really seen photos of 111s opera it which makes it interesting to model. Where was the origin if the fertiliser assuming the destination was Derry? When did it end? Was it operated by IR or NIR? What was a typical rake? 10/12 wagons? Did anything other than the 111s haul it? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcorkrailway Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 14 minutes ago, gm171 kk said: Would anyone have any information on the fertiliser traffic to Derry? I have only really seen photos of 111s opera it which makes it interesting to model. Where was the origin if the fertiliser assuming the destination was Derry? When did it end? Was it operated by IR or NIR? What was a typical rake? 10/12 wagons? Did anything other than the 111s haul it? I’ve seen a photo recently in another thread of 1 or maybe even double hunslet locos hauling it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm171 kk Posted November 9, 2022 Author Share Posted November 9, 2022 1 minute ago, Westcorkrailway said: I’ve seen a photo recently in another thread of 1 or maybe even double hunslet locos hauling it I've seen thumpers and C class top and tailing on it also. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudfan Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 From memory it was almost like a return to wagon load traffic! The speed limit allowed the fetiliiser wagon to be stuck behind anything that was travelling to Derry. Never saw anything closely resembling a block train of fertiliser wagons in Derry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airfixfan Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 See attached 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leslie10646 Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 (edited) I asked Jim Edgar, of Markle Videos (incidentally giving a talk at London IRRS next week). He replied: There were occasional bulk fertiliser trains from the mid 1970s until at least 1990. The traffic was for County Donegal, and was seasonal depending on the demand for fertiliser. There do not seem to be exact dates and the trains ran as required. Fertiliser for Donegal via Derry ran sporadically as a block train of bogie wagons (usually 8), and only when demand was really high. I think that is what we mean here, though there might have been the odd wagon on the general freight service for Donegal which ran via Lisburn and Derry between 1965 and around 1980. Yes these bulk trains were fairly rare but there are plenty of dated photographs of them, so not so unusual as some suggest. At times a CIÉ loco worked through. There is a photo of one train in Derry on 19 October 1976 in J M Allen's book on NIR, with CIE loco 171 in charge. Here are some photos of it in 1985. > https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/3025809 > https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/503775 I photographed it on 22 April 1987 behind 111. You can check this out on the Markle DVD (still available!). Also in Jonathan Allen's book is a photo of it hauled by 112 on 21 July 1990 <ACTUALLY TEN FERTS>. He also included a photo taken by Denis Grimshaw on 11 April 1981of it hauled by a pair of Hunslet locos. A model with a Murphy 111 class and up to 8 IRM wagons would be pretty <on the evidence, even TEN Ferts - LM> close to what I saw. Hope this helps. Jim Edited November 9, 2022 by leslie10646 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connollystn Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 There's a website called 'preservedthumpers.com' which deals with the subject of 'NIR thumper freight'. There's a photograph of a single Class 70 car hauling some fertiliser wagons. Very interesting website for those of you who want to learn about Thumpers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leslie10646 Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 More from Jim Edgar: They might have worked them up as two laden trains or split in two between Ballymena and Ballymoney in the Down direction. I am pretty sure that there are 9 wagons on the train in my photo, but I would need to dig out the DVD to check. 8 was the normal load. The question was how likely it was to get that weight up and over Ballyboyland given the state of the rails etc. NIR sometimes sent out a Hunslet with an MV coupled in front plus a driver in each one. Once they reached Ballymoney they took the MV off and sent it back light engine. It recalled for me all those Sunday School runs to Portrush when the second Jeep came off at Kingsbog. Proper railway working I suppose. I was astounded to find out that in the days of the overnight goods CIE paid for the third shift in every signalcabin from Dundalk to Lisburn and then all the way to Derry, the full cost of maintenance of Lisburn to Antrim, the cost of shunting and clerical staff at Derry, and of course CIE maintained their depot for County Donegal at Stranorlar. Denis Grimshaw said once that in the end CIE had no problem with paying the money, but they needed to add the general container traffic to the Sligo goods to keep it running. Thus only the fertiliser trains ran on with just those costs still covered by CIE on a trainload basis. Later there was bulk timber too. Maybe I will slip a photo of the Derry goods into my slideshow at this last minute ... 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airfixfan Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 Will.get more details from the driver of that photo who passed it onto myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphaph Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 I suspect not too many would have believed an MV+Hunslet+rake of ferts would have been prototypical had Jim not seen it. Someday someone will model that scene. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIRCLASS80 Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 I seen fertilisers with 10 wagons and a 111 working it several times and I also remember an A Class working at least one as well. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayner Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 CIEs losses increased significantly and UTA/NIR financial position improved in 1965/6 after the overnight "Derry Vacuum" was diverted to run via Lisburn and Antrim following the closure of the GNR Derry Road. The "Derry Vacuum" Irelands first fully fitted express freight or Liner Train was worked by a CIE loco between North Wall and Lisburn, with the UTA and NIR responsible for providing motive power (MPD, 70 Class Railcars, Hunslets & 111) between Lisburn and Derry. CIE were responsible for track maintenance and signalling costs in connection with the Derry Goods and freight terminal costs at Adelaide and Derry, I think the goods terminal staff at Adelaide and Derry may have been CIE rather than NIR employees who worked under the same conditions as their NIR colleagues. Jonathan Allen's Flickr site has a good selection of photos of Derry goods traffic including fertiliser wagons and Uniload containers at the Waterside station. https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/38707384890/in/album-72157690221607481/ & 70 Class Power Cars hauling a very mixed Derry Goods made up of a mixture of bagged, bubble cement, CIE container and what looks like Back to Back Fertiliser https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/40247664354/in/album-72157713209886488/ 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40 milepost Posted November 10, 2022 Share Posted November 10, 2022 12 hours ago, Mayner said: CIEs losses increased significantly and UTA/NIR financial position improved in 1965/6 after the overnight "Derry Vacuum" was diverted to run via Lisburn and Antrim following the closure of the GNR Derry Road. The "Derry Vacuum" Irelands first fully fitted express freight or Liner Train was worked by a CIE loco between North Wall and Lisburn, with the UTA and NIR responsible for providing motive power (MPD, 70 Class Railcars, Hunslets & 111) between Lisburn and Derry. CIE were responsible for track maintenance and signalling costs in connection with the Derry Goods and freight terminal costs at Adelaide and Derry, I think the goods terminal staff at Adelaide and Derry may have been CIE rather than NIR employees who worked under the same conditions as their NIR colleagues. Jonathan Allen's Flickr site has a good selection of photos of Derry goods traffic including fertiliser wagons and Uniload containers at the Waterside station. https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/38707384890/in/album-72157690221607481/ & 70 Class Power Cars hauling a very mixed Derry Goods made up of a mixture of bagged, bubble cement, CIE container and what looks like Back to Back Fertiliser https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/40247664354/in/album-72157713209886488/ Usually the GM worked the ferts to LY, but if none were available it could be a hunslet or an MV ,which had to be double headed as far as Ballymoney or topped and tailed. 2 shots at Ballymena. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40 milepost Posted November 10, 2022 Share Posted November 10, 2022 Just now, 40 milepost said: Usually the GM worked the ferts to LY, but if none were available it could be a hunslet or an MV ,which had to be double headed as far as Ballymoney or topped and tailed. 2 shots at Ballymena. If a relief was needed it usually worked through with a CIE loco and crew usually on a Sat but not always. That last shot is Ballymena believe it or not. A class leading a returning empty fert from LY passing a stabled rugby special from Limerick . 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIRCLASS80 Posted November 10, 2022 Share Posted November 10, 2022 5 minutes ago, 40 milepost said: If a relief was needed it usually worked through with a CIE loco and crew usually on a Sat but not always. That last shot is Ballymena believe it or not. A class leading a returning empty fert from LY passing a stabled rugby special from Limerick . Fantastic post. Thanks for sharing 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40 milepost Posted November 10, 2022 Share Posted November 10, 2022 Just one more 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.png.c363cdf5c3fb7955cd92a55eb6dbbae0.png){kind=logo}
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.