Derry Fertiliser Traffic

[gm171 kk]

Would anyone have any information on the fertiliser traffic to Derry? I have only really seen photos of 111s opera it which makes it interesting to model. 

Where was the origin if the fertiliser assuming the destination was Derry? 

When did it end? 

Was it operated by IR or NIR? 

What was a typical rake? 10/12 wagons? 

Did anything other than the 111s haul it? 

[Westcorkrailway]

14 minutes ago, gm171 kk said:

Would anyone have any information on the fertiliser traffic to Derry? I have only really seen photos of 111s opera it which makes it interesting to model. 

Where was the origin if the fertiliser assuming the destination was Derry? 

When did it end? 

Was it operated by IR or NIR? 

What was a typical rake? 10/12 wagons? 

Did anything other than the 111s haul it? 

I’ve seen a photo recently in another thread of 1 or maybe even double hunslet locos hauling it 

[gm171 kk]

1 minute ago, Westcorkrailway said:

I’ve seen a photo recently in another thread of 1 or maybe even double hunslet locos hauling it 

I've seen thumpers and C class top and tailing on it also. 

[spudfan]

From memory it was almost like a return to wagon load traffic! The speed limit allowed the fetiliiser wagon to be stuck behind anything that was travelling to Derry. Never saw anything closely resembling a block train of fertiliser wagons in Derry.

[airfixfan]

See attached 

[leslie10646]

I asked Jim Edgar, of Markle Videos (incidentally giving a talk at London IRRS next week).

He replied:
There were occasional bulk fertiliser trains from the mid 1970s until at
least 1990. The traffic was for County Donegal, and was seasonal
depending on the demand for fertiliser. There do not seem to be exact
dates and the trains ran as required.
Fertiliser for Donegal via Derry ran sporadically as a block train of
bogie wagons (usually 8), and only when demand was really high. I think
that is what we mean here, though there might have been the odd wagon on
the general freight service for Donegal which ran via Lisburn and Derry
between 1965 and around 1980.
Yes these bulk trains were fairly rare but there are plenty of dated
photographs of them, so not so unusual as some suggest.
At times a CIÉ loco worked through. There is a photo of one train in
Derry on 19 October 1976 in J M Allen's book on NIR, with CIE loco 171
in charge.
Here are some photos of it in 1985.
> https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/3025809
> https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/503775
I photographed it on 22 April 1987 behind 111. You can check this out on
the Markle DVD (still available!).
Also in Jonathan Allen's book is a photo of it hauled by 112 on 21 July
1990 <ACTUALLY TEN FERTS>.

He also included a photo taken by Denis Grimshaw on 11 April 1981of it hauled by a pair of Hunslet locos.
A model with a Murphy 111 class and up to 8 IRM wagons would be pretty <on the evidence, even TEN Ferts - LM>
close to what I saw.
Hope this helps.

Jim

Edited November 9, 2022 by leslie10646

[connollystn]

There's a website called 'preservedthumpers.com' which deals with the subject of 'NIR thumper freight'. There's a photograph of a single Class 70 car hauling some fertiliser wagons. Very interesting website for those of you who want to learn about Thumpers.

[leslie10646]

More from Jim Edgar:

They might have worked them up as two laden trains or split in two
between Ballymena and Ballymoney in the Down direction.

I am pretty sure that there are 9 wagons on the train in my photo, but I
would need to dig out the DVD to check. 8 was the normal load.

The question was how likely it was to get that weight up and over
Ballyboyland given the state of the rails etc.

NIR sometimes sent out a Hunslet with an MV coupled in front plus a
driver in each one. Once they reached Ballymoney they took the MV off
and sent it back light engine. It recalled for me all those Sunday
School runs to Portrush when the second Jeep came off at Kingsbog.
Proper railway working I suppose.

I was astounded to find out that in the days of the overnight goods CIE
paid for the third shift in every signalcabin from Dundalk to Lisburn
and then all the way to Derry, the full cost of maintenance of Lisburn
to Antrim, the cost of shunting and clerical staff at Derry, and of
course CIE maintained their depot for County Donegal at Stranorlar.

Denis Grimshaw said once that in the end CIE had no problem with paying
the money, but they needed to add the general container traffic to the
Sligo goods to keep it running. Thus only the fertiliser trains ran on
with just those costs still covered by CIE on a trainload basis. Later
there was bulk timber too.

Maybe I will slip a photo of the Derry goods into my slideshow at this
last minute ...

 

 

[airfixfan]

Will.get more details from the driver of that photo who passed it onto myself

[murphaph]

I suspect not too many would have believed an MV+Hunslet+rake of ferts would have been prototypical had Jim not seen it. Someday someone will model that scene.

[NIRCLASS80]

I seen fertilisers with 10 wagons and a 111 working it several times and I also remember an A Class working at least one as well. 

[Mayner]

CIEs losses increased significantly and UTA/NIR financial position improved in 1965/6 after the overnight "Derry Vacuum" was diverted to run via Lisburn and Antrim following the closure of the GNR Derry Road. 

The "Derry Vacuum" Irelands first fully fitted express freight or Liner Train was worked by a CIE loco between North Wall and Lisburn, with the UTA and NIR responsible for providing motive power (MPD, 70 Class Railcars, Hunslets & 111) between Lisburn and Derry. CIE were responsible for track maintenance and signalling costs in connection with the Derry Goods and freight terminal costs at Adelaide and Derry, I think the goods terminal staff at Adelaide and Derry may have been CIE rather than NIR employees who worked under the same conditions as their NIR colleagues.

Jonathan Allen's Flickr site has a good selection of photos of Derry goods traffic including fertiliser wagons and Uniload containers at the Waterside station.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/38707384890/in/album-72157690221607481/

&  70 Class Power Cars hauling a very mixed Derry Goods made up of a mixture of bagged, bubble cement, CIE container and what looks like Back to Back Fertiliser

https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/40247664354/in/album-72157713209886488/

 

[40 milepost]

 

12 hours ago, Mayner said:

CIEs losses increased significantly and UTA/NIR financial position improved in 1965/6 after the overnight "Derry Vacuum" was diverted to run via Lisburn and Antrim following the closure of the GNR Derry Road. 

The "Derry Vacuum" Irelands first fully fitted express freight or Liner Train was worked by a CIE loco between North Wall and Lisburn, with the UTA and NIR responsible for providing motive power (MPD, 70 Class Railcars, Hunslets & 111) between Lisburn and Derry. CIE were responsible for track maintenance and signalling costs in connection with the Derry Goods and freight terminal costs at Adelaide and Derry, I think the goods terminal staff at Adelaide and Derry may have been CIE rather than NIR employees who worked under the same conditions as their NIR colleagues.

Jonathan Allen's Flickr site has a good selection of photos of Derry goods traffic including fertiliser wagons and Uniload containers at the Waterside station.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/38707384890/in/album-72157690221607481/

&  70 Class Power Cars hauling a very mixed Derry Goods made up of a mixture of bagged, bubble cement, CIE container and what looks like Back to Back Fertiliser

https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/40247664354/in/album-72157713209886488/

 

Usually the GM worked the ferts to LY, but if none were available it could be a hunslet or an MV ,which had to be double headed as far as Ballymoney or topped and tailed. 2 shots at Ballymena.

[40 milepost]

Just now, 40 milepost said:

 

Usually the GM worked the ferts to LY, but if none were available it could be a hunslet or an MV ,which had to be double headed as far as Ballymoney or topped and tailed. 2 shots at Ballymena.

If a relief was needed it usually worked through with a CIE loco and crew usually on a Sat but not always. That last shot is Ballymena believe it or not. A class leading a returning empty fert from LY passing a stabled rugby special from Limerick .

[NIRCLASS80]

5 minutes ago, 40 milepost said:

If a relief was needed it usually worked through with a CIE loco and crew usually on a Sat but not always. That last shot is Ballymena believe it or not. A class leading a returning empty fert from LY passing a stabled rugby special from Limerick .

Fantastic post. Thanks for sharing 

[40 milepost]

Just one more