Belfast Queens Bridge station

[Lambeg man]

Last Tuesday a relative came to visit and stay with my wife for a few hours, so I took the occasion to have a break. But what to do in 2 hours? So I went to the local model railway shop, Great Eastern Models in Norwich. I wanted to find out a bit about 'O' gauge. I was chatting to the owner and had a print out of the Dapol NCC 'Jinty'. What was all this "DCC fitted" and "DCC Ready" all about? She looked at the pictures and said "We have one of those in stock." My reply "You have an Irish 'O' gauge model engine in stock?" She "Is that what it is, Irish?" It was in a selection of Dapol 'Jintys' in various British liveries that I suspect Dapol mickey finned her. I examined it. It was in a reduced 'sale' of 'O' gauge stock and trackwork. I left 20 minutes later with the said NCC 'Jinty', some goods wagons and track (all decently reduced from the RRP).

I felt there was some kind of divine intervention in that of the cuff I go into a model shop in Norwich and was offered a ready 'adapted' Irish model. Why was I asking about 'O' gauge in the first place you may well ask. Caring for my wife is a full on daily operation that leaves little time for railway modelling. The large 'OO' layout is housed in the garage and is currently moribund. So my thoughts had turned to a much smaller layout that could be worked on in the house. Previous experience with "shunting layouts" in 'OO' has always shown poor performance and the persistent need of the 'Hand of God' to keep things moving, especially with older locomotives. So how about say an 8 foot layout but in 'O' gauge?

So that evening I'm running my new locomotive up and down a section of track on the kitchen table, thinking where can I base a layout that would fit in with NCC No. 19. Initial thoughts were towards a fictitious branch terminus somewhere in County Antrim. York Road was out of the question and thoughts of the Belfast Harbour lines threw up an image of track surrounded by cobblestones. Then inspired with a few measures of electric soup I suddenly remembered this photo.

Photo courtesy of Ernie Brack

This is Queens Bridge station prior to demolition in 1960. The 'tunnel' (or 'subway' as the GNR referred to it) in the middle leads to the lines of the Belfast Harbour Commissioners. Note, no cobble stones but a freight only line connecting the Maysfields Yard with the Dock lines. Other photo's show goods vans in the upper left hand siding. The station was actually listed a as a Goods Station in GNR days. So, a layout that can have 'through' running and shunting, while providing a perfect backdrop for No. 19 - PERFICK!

While the last passenger service ran in 1885, the 'Station Building' on the left is clearly still in use as offices. So sadly no passenger stock will appear. I have the 1931 track plan which shows signals and some form of goods shed facing onto Laganbank Road. Several 4' x 2' baseboards will quickly be released from current 'OO' duties and each can be brought separately into the kitchen to be worked on. Initial experiments with 'O' gauge points and track indicate I will need at least 12' to provide a realistic vista.

The table is roughly 4' x 2' and it will be seen that points take up a lot of room. On the plus side I am blown away at the detail of the Dapol wagons, the sprung buffers and especially the sprung 3-link chain couplings.

Gone are the Hornby hook and bar attachments.

Sorry, slightly blurred photo of No. 19 and current stock. Really loving the experience, like starting out from scratch as a kid but at 67 years of age being much better financially endowed to buy what I want!

Now, what to do with all that 'OO' stuff?

 

   

   

 

Edited January 8, 2023 by Lambeg man

[Galteemore]

Oh how exciting!!  Just be careful - O gauge is highly enticing….seriously I’ve never looked back since dabbling in English O a few years ago. The gauge disparity from true 5’3” in hard numbers is pretty much exactly the same as in OO - 4.75 mm vs 4.5 mm - but in O it’s much, much less obvious. The rolling stock has a mass and presence all of its own in 7mm. A single wagon on a piece of track looks like something significant. And scale for price, it’s not really any more expensive. Wear well. Before you know it, you’ll be turning out a GN wagon in plasticard….and modelling is an excellent adjunct to the loving service that is the carer’s lot. 

Edited January 5, 2023 by Galteemore

[Lambeg man]

 

24 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

The rolling stock has a mass and presence all of its own in 7mm. A single wagon on a piece of track looks like something significant.

Thanks for that Galteemore. Yes, anything in 7mm is impressive compared to 4mm. Longer term ambition is an 0-6-0 to be added, either an NCC 'V' lookalike or a GNR 'PG'. In concept the project will of course be a 'portable' layout that can be assembled in the house or the garage when the better weather returns. I can not currently source any RTR vans, which would have been the main consist through to the docks.

To provide a scenic break at the other end of the layout the Albert Bridge will be moved nearer and East Bridge Junction will be out of sight. The signals will be provided as they were there purely to project the Junction when block working was in use for the passage of passenger and oil trains.  

[David Holman]

Welcome to Irish 7mm scale, as I keep saying - the water is lovely! Overall, 10-12 feet is about the minimum for a terminus fiddle yard set up. Northport Quay is 7'6 of scenics, indicating 30" train length. You can get away with less if you use the fiddle yard as the entry cross over, as per several of Iain Rice's designs.

 Check out the Alphagraphix website for cheap ( proper Irish) wagon kits and more. The loco kits are designed for 32mm gauge as well.

 Think you are right to stick to freight only - coaches take up a lot of room and if you enjoy shunting, then 7mm scale is much easier and more fun.

 Enjoy the new toys and keep us posted!

[airfixfan]

See Disused Stations website for photos etc of this former station

 We have just added Tooban Junction to this website.

[Lambeg man]

1 hour ago, airfixfan said:

See Disused Stations website for photos etc of this former station

Thanks Jim, that is where I got the photo from! Sorry, credit belatedly added. Modelling that station building should be fun. A rural looking building right in the middle of the city!

Edited January 6, 2023 by Lambeg man

[Lambeg man]

3 hours ago, David Holman said:

Overall, 10-12 feet is about the minimum for a terminus fiddle yard set up. Northport Quay is 7'6 of scenics, indicating 30" train length. You can get away with less if you use the fiddle yard as the entry cross over, as per several of Iain Rice's designs.

Hi David,

Thank you for that. Below is a rough sketch of what I have in mind. 12' between the scenic breaks. It can not be seen in the photo, but the 1931 OS map shows there was a bay platform at Queens Bridge with a spur line running off it back and under the Albert Bridge. The three 4' x 2' main boards are already built and I envisage providing hidden sidings on 4' long narrow hinged end sections at both ends to allow through running.

  

[Galteemore]

Excellent. Nice for some relaxed shunting sessions too.

[LARNE CABIN]

Hi Steve, devine intervention indeed! As you know, I'm a carer myself and the kitchen table is my workbench. It's good to be able to grab small periods of time 'in house' and make some progress. I was looking forward to seeing Scarva develop, but am pleased you have found another option. It's great to see yet another Norn Irish themed layout on the 'Irish Model Layouts' thread and there's a wealth of expertise there from the two David's, Holman and Richardson and lots of others. I enjoy reading your insights on various topics here on the forum and look forward to seeing Queens Bridge develop.

[leslie10646]

Good luck with the new venture, Steve.

A quick look at the Dapol site reminds me that they do a Sentinel - the NCC had one of those, but not quite that version, I think - but maybe a quick win? Are none of their vans even close to Irish?

Roger's Alphagraphix kits produce decent wagons too - I have a couple on Rosses' Point. I was prodding him re the lack of a chassis kit for his cardboard wagons - I think he may produce one sooner or later.

[Galteemore]

Slaters do some nice van kits which are close in some ways, including a nice SECR brake which isn’t far off a GN 6 wheeler……https://www.slatersplastikard.com/wagons/gOWagons.php

[Lambeg man]

6 hours ago, leslie10646 said:

Good luck with the new venture, Steve.

Thank you.

6 hours ago, leslie10646 said:

A quick look at the Dapol site reminds me that they do a Sentinel - the NCC had one of those, but not quite that version, I think - but maybe a quick win?

Indeed, a quick win is always a winner! Though one of the H&W shunters (e.g. No. 16) might also feature.

6 hours ago, leslie10646 said:

Roger's Alphagraphix kits produce decent wagons too - I have a couple on Rosses' Point. I was prodding him re the lack of a chassis kit for his cardboard wagons - I think he may produce one sooner or later.

That would be good news. For the present kit building is way in the future. Alphagrafix do a GNR 'Y' van of the type that had the roof ventilators removed specifically to go through the Queens Bridge tunnel. In respect of Dapol RTR, have examined the web site and none of their vans jump out as looking "Irish". LM

Edited January 6, 2023 by Lambeg man

[jhb171achill]

21 hours ago, Lambeg man said:

Last Tuesday a relative came to visit and stay with my wife for a few hours, so I took the occasion to have a break. But what to do in 2 hours? So I went to the local model railway shop, Great Eastern Models in Norwich. I wanted to find out a bit about 'O' gauge. I was chatting to the owner and had a print out of the Dapol NCC 'Jinty'. What was all this "DCC fitted" and "DCC Ready" all about? She looked at the pictures and said "We have one of those in stock." My reply "You have an Irish 'O' gauge model engine in stock?" She "Is that what it is, Irish?" It was in a selection of Dapol 'Jintys' in various British liveries that I suspect Dapol mickey finned her. I examined it. It was in a reduced 'sale' of 'O' gauge stock and trackwork. I left 20 minutes later with the said NCC 'Jinty', some goods wagons and track (all decently reduced from the RRP).

I felt there was some kind of divine intervention in that of the cuff I go into a model shop in Norwich and was offered a ready 'adapted' Irish model. Why was I asking about 'O' gauge in the first place you may well ask. Caring for my wife is a full on daily operation that leaves little time for railway modelling. The large 'OO' layout is housed in the garage and is currently moribund. So my thoughts had turned to a much smaller layout that could be worked on in the house. Previous experience with "shunting layouts" in 'OO' has always shown poor performance and the persistent need of the 'Hand of God' to keep things moving, especially with older locomotives. So how about say an 8 foot layout but in 'O' gauge?

So that evening I'm running my new locomotive up and down a section of track on the kitchen table, thinking where can I base a layout that would fit in with NCC No. 19. Initial thoughts were towards a fictitious branch terminus somewhere in County Antrim. York Road was out of the question and thoughts of the Belfast Harbour lines threw up an image of track surrounded by cobblestones. Then inspired with a few measures of electric soup I suddenly remembered this photo.

Photo courtesy of Disused Stations website

This is Queens Bridge station prior to demolition in 1960. The 'tunnel' (or 'subway' as the GNR referred to it) in the middle leads to the lines of the Belfast Harbour Commissioners. Note, no cobble stones but a freight only line connecting the Maysfields Yard with the Dock lines. Other photo's show goods vans in the upper left hand siding. The station was actually listed a as a Goods Station in GNR days. So, a layout that can have 'through' running and shunting, while providing a perfect backdrop for No. 19 - PERFICK!

While the last passenger service ran in 1885, the 'Station Building' on the left is clearly still in use as offices. So sadly no passenger stock will appear. I have the 1931 track plan which shows signals and some form of goods shed facing onto Laganbank Road. Several 4' x 2' baseboards will quickly be released from current 'OO' duties and each can be brought separately into the kitchen to be worked on. Initial experiments with 'O' gauge points and track indicate I will need at least 12' to provide a realistic vista.

 

The table is roughly 4' x 2' and it will be seen that points take up a lot of room. On the plus side I am blown away at the detail of the Dapol wagons, the sprung buffers and especially the sprung 3-link chain couplings.

 

Gone are the Hornby hook and bar attachments.

Sorry, slightly blurred photo of No. 19 and current stock. Really loving the experience, like starting out from scratch as a kid but at 67 years of age being much better financially endowed to buy what I want!

Now, what to do with all that 'OO' stuff?

Lambegman, that will make an EXCELLENT and convenient project. Plus, scope for both BCDR and GNR wagons - possibly the odd NCC one. Looking at your wagons, the second (high-sided) one would do as a GNR loco coal wagon, on its way from Kelly's up to Adelaide. The other opens are generic enough to be NCC "Courtaulds" types, GNR likewise (though not BCDR; all their wagon designs, like the Wisht Caark, were decidely oddball non-standard!). The BR containers at the end would have been commonplace in the relatively short period those two "Jinty's" were in operation, while the flat would do GNR or NCC too. All you need is a brake van!

Looking forward to seeing this project develop!

 

[jhb171achill]

Meant to add...once IRM get their RTR "Jeep" out (hoping!?), I'll be looking for a couple of them to do the same sort of thing in 00 scale..............

[Lambeg man]

2 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Looking at your wagons, the second (high-sided) one would do as a GNR loco coal wagon, on its way from Kelly's up to Adelaide. The other opens are generic enough to be NCC "Courtaulds" types, GNR likewise (though not BCDR;

Thanks JHB. The wagon selection bought was all she had in stock that looked slightly 'Irish'. By the way she has had this lot "on sale" for as long as I can remember, so she was a happy bunny. The containers are an LMS and a GWR furniture type. Not sure if either ever popped up in Ireland, but they can be repainted (I hope) into the standard BR type that did appear in Ireland via Belfast Docks. I think the tunnel was deepened in 1962 to accommodate them. At present I have not the time for kit building AND putting the layout together. Bearing in mind this all started with "where would No. 19 TRULY look at home?" without having to model York Road or lay track in a sea of cobble stones, that is why I hit on Queens Bridge.

Now then, if staying accurate to Queens Bridge, the only through traffic was shipping vans. Coal came from the Low Docks on the other side of the Lagan, cattle got off at Mayfields where the sand traffic from Coalisland was also unloaded. I would like to know more about the apparently rail connected Goods Shed which faced onto Laganbank Road, in terms of what traffic it was built for.

However, RULE ONE. I said "no passenger carriages" but never say never again! There may well be coal and other aggregate traffic through the tunnel on my layout...

Whatever rolling stock ever appears there will be a clear need for No. 19 to be helped by either a GNR or NCC 0-6-0, but the darling of it all will be a GNR 'RT'. Sweet dreams are made of this.....   

Edited January 6, 2023 by Lambeg man

[David Holman]

One wagon type that made it across the water unaltered is the standard tank wagon. Dapol do one and given the amount of work needed on a Slater's kit, are good value.

 In terms of rtr locos, don't forget there are a couple of nice industrial types available, which should go rather well with your chosen setting. Meanwhile, Alphagraphix do a whitemetal underframe kit for their wagons, along with an etched chassis for an H van.

[Lambeg man]

1 hour ago, David Holman said:

One wagon type that made it across the water unaltered is the standard tank wagon.

Thank you for that David. Did initially consider that, but like the cattle, sand and coal traffic, oil tanks "went over the viaduct", not as far as I am aware through the tunnel. Still....... you never know.... LM

[Galteemore]

Roger does do a rather nice little JT tank, which is fairly simple to build and would look right. After that you could probably think about scratch building an RT  

[Lambeg man]

43 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

Roger does do a rather nice little JT tank

Yes, I saw that last night and I agree it would not look out of place...

43 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

which is fairly simple to build

Ha ha ha ha ha ha... For you yes, for me????? Only if it goes together with Airfix glue!

Edited January 7, 2023 by Lambeg man

[Irishswissernie]

That Stations UK photo is one of mine I think, I have provided them with a fair number of images over the years.

This one is at the other end of the tunnel RT 24 possibly propelling a rake out of the tunnel. The ex SLNC Lough Melvin & Lough Erne probably worked through the tunnel as well.

 

Edited January 7, 2023 by Irishswissernie

[Galteemore]

We all have to start somewhere Steve. I built my first O gauge wagon five years ago - plastic kit. It rocked on 3 wheels - always build on a sheet of glass I then built this brass GW wagon kit as a starter in metalwork  - loads of mistakes but in brass you can always fix stuff that would have to be thrown away in plastic. I know I’d really struggle to make an Airfix kit well…..this metal stuff is nowhere near as difficult as it seems- trust me!!

Edited January 7, 2023 by Galteemore

[Galteemore]

40 minutes ago, Irishswissernie said:

The ex SLNC Lough Melvin & Lough Erne probably worked through the tunnel as well. 

 

They did, with PG and RT classes. The Sligo tanks were fitted with larger buffers to prevent locking on the curves. 

[Lambeg man]

43 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

this metal stuff is nowhere near as difficult as it seems- trust me!!

Okay, I'll go with when time permits. While on the subject of "TRUST", where is Broithe this morning? Have you lost him again?

45 minutes ago, Irishswissernie said:

That Stations UK photo is one of mine I think, I have provided them with a fair number of images over the years.

Sorry Ernie, I should have realised. I have about eight images taken at roughly the same vantage point as your photo above. They feature GNR 'RT' and 'PG' classes, plus NCC 'V1' and both Sligo tanks coming or going through the tunnel. Only have three images taken at the other end of the tunnel, all looking at it. I am trying to find a shot taken from the tunnel mouth area looking south. 

Edited January 7, 2023 by Lambeg man

[Galteemore]

2 minutes ago, Lambeg man said:

Okay, I'll go with when time permits. While on the subject of "TRUST", where is Broithe this morning? Have you lost him again?

 

Thought you had him….yes, give the brass a go. It’s very satisfying, and you could have one of Roger’s engines built in a couple of weeks ….

[Lambeg man]

48 minutes ago, Irishswissernie said:

This one is at the other end of the tunnel QL 24 possibly propelling a rake out of the tunnel.

RT No. 24. Probably propelling as no flagman is visible in the shot.

[Lambeg man]

1 hour ago, Galteemore said:

Thought you had him

No Galteemore, he's here on the previous post! (Foolish Drivers)

Edited January 7, 2023 by Lambeg man

[Broithe]

2 hours ago, Lambeg man said:

While on the subject of "TRUST", where is Broithe this morning? Have you lost him again?

I was unaware that I was under surveillance. 

I've been hiding in the Shed - and I generally have a rather lower profile in morning periods...

Edited January 7, 2023 by Broithe

[Patrick Davey]

This will be a fascinating project, featuring as it does one of the less frequently mentioned lines.  I have been having some further 'micro musings' recently and this location did cross my mind, it's local to me, and like Capecastle, it has the perfect scenic break in the tunnel.  Really looking forward to watching this one!

[Lambeg man]

1 hour ago, Broithe said:

I was unaware that I was under surveillance. 

It was supposed to be PROTECTION but no doubt receiving an invoice from the "A High Mountain in Ireland and a Small Village in the Lagan Valley Security Company" (Galteemore's idea to keep our identities under wraps) would have confused anyone! 

[Broithe]

8 minutes ago, Lambeg man said:

It was supposed to be PROTECTION but no doubt receiving an invoice from the "A High Mountain in Ireland and a Small Village in the Lagan Valley Security Company" (Galteemore's idea to keep our identities under wraps) would have confused anyone! 

You need secondary codenames, like Cheese Slice and Little Drummer Boy.

[Lambeg man]

6 hours ago, Broithe said:

You need secondary codenames, like Cheese Slice and Little Drummer Boy.

Thank you for that advice Broithe. It goes some when you have to ask the customer for advice. Anyway I for one am leaving the security business and going back to my railway project. Good luck with only Galteemore watching your back. (or was it your front?) Honestly, working with him was a nightmare. Problem - Broithe at risk, Solution - Oh let's find some drawings of early SLNCR Railbuses. See what I was up against!

 

[Galteemore]

In fairness, I made sure everyone was treated as a name and not a number. And I ensured that we got two modern vehicles on the never never. 

[Lambeg man]

Okay, back to the thread. So I hit on the idea of Queens Bridge based on one photograph and then started more serious digging.

Queens Bridge passenger station was completed in 1871, but was not brought into use until 1875. It served a double track line from Ulster (later Central) Junction until 1879 when the 'Tunnel' was punched through the site. Passenger services ceased in 1885 when the GNR(I) bought the Belfast Central Railway. Thereafter Queens Bridge was a goods only station.

The 1931 OS map already referred to is 'mushy' when trying to work out the actual point work in the vicinity of this station.

Bearing in mind this all started with "Where would No. 19 look at home", the previously posted track plan was one of my own imagination really. On reflection, it would not be the best idea for providing 'shunting' within the 12' scenic section as the crossovers were at the ends. Tonight I found a J. Macarrenty Roobins photo on the IRRS website. Based on it I can produce this rough diagram of what the actual trackwork was in the late 1940's. Best of all, the crossovers will be roughly in the middle of the proposed 12' scenic section. The same photo shows the old passenger station platform full of goods vans and the area marked 'A' on diagram is seen to be covered in either sand or cement dust. However, no view of the Goods shed. Was it gone post 1948?

So this what I will probably aim at rather than the previously posted layout.

   

Edited January 8, 2023 by Lambeg man

[airfixfan]

There was an article about that line in Railway Magazine May 1054

[Lambeg man]

1 hour ago, airfixfan said:

There was an article about that line in Railway Magazine May 1054

Hi Jim, did you mean May 1954? If so there no mention of the Belfast Central in that issue. LM