IRM Crossley Sound Chips Are Here!!!

[Warbonnet]

Hi everyone,

Just a message to extend a massive thanks to everyone who purchased our sound decoders, almost 70% of them have now sold so they have proven very popular indedd!

Don't miss out on yours here: https://irishrailwaymodels.com/collections/dcc-decoders

Cheers!

Fran 

[DJ Dangerous]

Only a quarter left? Already???

[Jonathan_RK]

Hello Fowler4F

I was just wondering about which DCC system you are using to control your A Class loco with Crossley sound decoder.

I have installed an ESU LOKSOUND decoder supplied by IRM in an IRM A12, and I'm using a Digitrax DCS52 DCC unit.

The decoder is generating sound but the loco is refusing to move !

[Fowler4f]

Hi, I use ECoS 52100 Controller. I have had a problem with A46, eventually the problem was sorted with the screws holding the body to the loco. I resolved it by not replacing the 2 screws at the capacitor end. There are 2 black wires that go down by the screw fixings seemed to make the problem. Just be careful how you lift the loco. Feel free to clarify any issues.

Regards

F4f.

[Jonathan_RK]

Thanks. You're using an ESU system so there should be no surprises.

Have you tested your A46 with the IRM1123 Crossley sound card installed ?

Does the loco move in both directions with sound ?

[Jonathan_RK]

Hi F4f

I should just add that I've successfully run my A12 with a LOKPILOT decoder (IRM1122DCC), using the Digitrax DCS52.

The same A12 with LOKSOUND decoder (IRM1123) will produce Crossley engine sound with persistent horn, will notch up and

down on throttle, but will not move.

I also have an A55 and an A30. I'll try the LOKSOUND decoder in these as well.

[Fowler4f]

Hi J-RK, I only use ESU Sound decoders, it works fine,  moves in both directions with all functions working. Same for A12 & A30 all 3 with the Crossley decoders. A15, A42 & A55 are fitted with EMD decoders.
I should also mention that all 19 of my IRM A/001 class locos have been rewired to enable F11/F23 to work as per the instruction sheet.

Edited July 28, 2023 by Fowler4f

[Jonathan_RK]

Sounds like (no pun intended) that ESU is the way to go for convenience.

I'll persevere with the Digitrax system and see how far I get. Perhaps there are incompatibility issues to be uncovered.

[Signal Post]

Hi Jonathan,

Given that A12 works ok with the Lokpilot decoder that would indicate that the loco itself including wiring, motor etc is good.

Since the sound functions (of the Lokpilot) are working that means that your decoder is in contact with your controller and would point to a problem with the decoder itself.

There shouldn't be a compatibility issue between the Digitrax controller and the ESU decoders since they all work to a common protocol.

The likely problems with the decoder are either a fault in the decoder itself (hopefully quite unlikely given the symptoms) or a problem with one or more of the CV settings.

I would suggest that you put your loco on a programming track, put the controller into programming mode and read the value of CV2, the value should be something fairly low (I normally use a value of 2 for the A class and I think the default value is 1). I have seen this CV take on a value of about 153 (I can't honestly say that I didn"t inadvertently programme that in, but I don't think I did!). If CV2 has taken on a value way above normal the effect would be that the loco won't move until the speed step is brought up to over half way (ie if you're using 28 speed steps a value above 14) at which point the loco will take off at breakneck speed! Changing CV2 back to 2 would cure the problem if that is the situation.

If you don't have a programming track etc handy, you could try putting the loco on a rolling road or a continuous loop (oval etc) and winding the speed up in order to see if this is the problem, however BE CAREFUL if doing this on a shunting layout etc as the loco may start off at high speed....

 

[Noel]

2 hours ago, Jonathan_RK said:

Sounds like (no pun intended) that ESU is the way to go for convenience.

I'll persevere with the Digitrax system and see how far I get. Perhaps there are incompatibility issues to be uncovered.

I doubt it’s a compatibility issue. Digitrax is one of the best US DCC controller eco-system. These may be ESU decoders but should work perfectly with any DCC system. Perhaps try a decider reset CV8=8 and reprogram the locos address, just in case any of the motor/drive CVS were askew. 

[Jonathan_RK]

Thanks Noel and SignalPost for your suggestions.

I've tested an A12, A30, and A55 with the LOKPILOT IRM1122 decoder and the Digitrax DCS52 system. All working well, as expected.

The DCS52 can deliver up to 3A to the locomotive. I'm quite happy with the DCS52 so far, which is a starter system but seems to be good value for money.

My comment about incompatibility refers to a possible issue with one or more settings on the LOKSOUND IRM1123 decoder configuration, which I will check per your helpful suggestions. With so many CVs, and noting the ESU LOKSOUND instruction manual containing 116 pages, the firmware that runs on the decoder microcontroller chip is quite impressive.

I think it would be reasonable to expect the motor control functions on the LOKSOUND decoder to be identical to those on the LOKPILOT decoder. At least I have a working LOKPILOT decoder as a reference.

 

[Fowler4f]

Hi J_RK, Good advice from SP & Noel, when you read the sound decoder did you switch off Analogue Control ? If not I believe that could be the cause of your problem. If you are using a 4 digit address, Set  CV 29 to value 34, that gives you 4 digit address, 128 speed steps, analogue off, & forward direction of travel. You must use programming mode and on rolling road or circle as previously advised. Look up Model Railroading on YouTube, Larry Puckett has 329 videos one or more that deal with programming decoders using Digitrax. Attached a photo why I use 4 digit addresses.
Let us all know how you get on.

[Gabhal Luimnigh]

Is that how many locos you have?

[Fowler4f]

7 minutes ago, Gabhal Luimnigh said:

Is that how many locos you have?

Yes, 52 locos & four 22000 sets on order, and no I’m not a millionaire, just a retired UK based train driver with a pension and no mortgage.

[Jonathan_RK]

In response to SP:

I've read the value of CV2 from the LOKSOUND decoder, which was 0003, so I set it to 0001. Alas, this didn't solve the problem. I'll check the value of CV2 on the LOKPILOT decoder, just for comparison.

In response to Noel: If I do a decoder reset on the LOKSOUND, will the reset have any effect on the Crossley sound file ?

In response to F4F: Thanks for your advice. I'll check CV29 and set it to 34 and see what happens.

I have three A Class, one MM B181, and one MM B121, so my address list will be a bit shorter. 

[Fowler4f]

28 minutes ago, Jonathan_RK said:

In response to SP:

I've read the value of CV2 from the LOKSOUND decoder, which was 0003, so I set it to 0001. Alas, this didn't solve the problem. I'll check the value of CV2 on the LOKPILOT decoder, just for comparison.

In response to Noel: If I do a decoder reset on the LOKSOUND, will the reset have any effect on the Crossley sound file ?

In response to F4F: Thanks for your advice. I'll check CV29 and set it to 34 and see what happens.

I have three A Class, one MM B181, and one MM B121, so my address list will be a bit shorter. 

Using 4 digit addresses avoids the problem with any new locos factory set addresses to 3.

[Gabhal Luimnigh]

2 hours ago, Fowler4f said:

Yes, 52 locos & four 22000 sets on order, and no I’m not a millionaire, just a retired UK based train driver with a pension and no mortgage.

You couldn't be a millionaire after buying that lot!

Fair dues 

[Fowler4f]

21 hours ago, Jonathan_RK said:

In response to SP:

I've read the value of CV2 from the LOKSOUND decoder, which was 0003, so I set it to 0001. Alas, this didn't solve the problem. I'll check the value of CV2 on the LOKPILOT decoder, just for comparison.

In response to Noel: If I do a decoder reset on the LOKSOUND, will the reset have any effect on the Crossley sound file ?

In response to F4F: Thanks for your advice. I'll check CV29 and set it to 34 and see what happens.

I have three A Class, one MM B181, and one MM B121, so my address list will be a bit shorter. 

Model Railroading No. 47/48 videos.

[Jonathan_RK]

Thanks F4f. I will assign unique 4 digit addresses to all my locos. This makes a lot of sense. I will have 1012, 1030, and 1055 for my three A Class locos.

I've read all of CV data from the LokPilot decoder, so I have all that as a reference. I also have the LokPilot 5 Instruction manual and the LokSound 5 Instruction manual as references for CV information, chapter 20 in each gives a CV table for each decoder. Next I will read all of CV data from the LokSound decoder. The

[Jonathan_RK]

Quick update - have succeeded in getting A55 to move in each direction, with LokSound decoder, CV29 set to 34, and long address set to 1055. Also works with CV29 set to 32. However, no lights or sound. Haven't changed anything else to impact sound or lights. So at least the LokSound decoder is viable for traction purposes !

I have Larry Pucketts book DCC Projects and Applications Vol 4. 

[Fowler4f]

58 minutes ago, Jonathan_RK said:

Quick update - have succeeded in getting A55 to move in each direction, with LokSound decoder, CV29 set to 34, and long address set to 1055. Also works with CV29 set to 32. However, no lights or sound. Haven't changed anything else to impact sound or lights. So at least the LokSound decoder is viable for traction purposes !

I have Larry Pucketts book DCC Projects and Applications Vol 4. 

Hi J, have you done a decoder reset as previously suggested by Noel,  CV8 to value 8 just in case you mistakenly altered 1 or more CV’s easily done ! We have all been there.

Then set CV 29 to value 34 and set address as well.

Edited July 30, 2023 by Fowler4f

[Jonathan_RK]

Hi F4f, before I do a reset of the LokSound decoder, I just need some assurance that the reset will not affect the sound file.

The Crossley sound decoders are still new to the market so I presume only a very few people will have done such a reset, if at all.

Perhaps you've done resets on EMD sound decoders with no issues ?

[DJ Dangerous]

Some great info from @Signal Post / @Noel and from @Fowler4f.

Can the functions on the IRM Crossley sound decoder be re-mapped, or is each function locked to a specific address? Sorry if this has already been answered and I've missed it.

As with @Jonathan_RK, I'd love to know if a decoder can be reset to default without losing the sound file?

[BosKonay]

32 minutes ago, DJ Dangerous said:

Some great info from @Signal Post / @Noel and from @Fowler4f.

Can the functions on the IRM Crossley sound decoder be re-mapped, or is each function locked to a specific address? Sorry if this has already been answered and I've missed it.

As with @Jonathan_RK, I'd love to know if a decoder can be reset to default without losing the sound file?

You can reset as often as you like. it will reset the chip to as you got it. 

[Jonathan_RK]

I have just noted a Digitrains video on Youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJHAZB-pft0

This looks like a demo of an IRM A Class loco with Crossley sound, sound decoder produced by Digitrains.

Presume this is a Digitrains project using their decoder complete with Crossley sound.

Has anyone posted a video of an IRM A Class loco running with Crossley sound, using the IRM ESU sound decoder ?

[irishthump]

30 minutes ago, Jonathan_RK said:

I have just noted a Digitrains video on Youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJHAZB-pft0

This looks like a demo of an IRM A Class loco with Crossley sound, sound decoder produced by Digitrains.

Presume this is a Digitrains project using their decoder complete with Crossley sound.

Has anyone posted a video of an IRM A Class loco running with Crossley sound, using the IRM ESU sound decoder ?

I actually commented on this video at the time and asked where they got the engine sound from. Apparently they used a generic file that was closest the could get to the Crossley sound.

[DJ Dangerous]

36 minutes ago, BosKonay said:

You can reset as often as you like. it will reset the chip to as you got it. 

Awesome!

35 minutes ago, Jonathan_RK said:

Has anyone posted a video of an IRM A Class loco running with Crossley sound, using the IRM ESU sound decoder ?

Both @ttc0169 and @Patrick Davey have posted Crossley sound decoder videos in their own threads.

[Noel]

1 hour ago, DJ Dangerous said:

Some great info from @Signal Post / @Noel and from @Fowler4f.

Can the functions on the IRM Crossley sound decoder be re-mapped, or is each function locked to a specific address? Sorry if this has already been answered and I've missed it.

As with @Jonathan_RK, I'd love to know if a decoder can be reset to default without losing the sound file?

Yes

[DJ Dangerous]

8 minutes ago, Noel said:

Yes

To the re-mapping functions?

[Fowler4f]

1 hour ago, Jonathan_RK said:

I have just noted a Digitrains video on Youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJHAZB-pft0

This looks like a demo of an IRM A Class loco with Crossley sound, sound decoder produced by Digitrains.

Presume this is a Digitrains project using their decoder complete with Crossley sound.

Has anyone posted a video of an IRM A Class loco running with Crossley sound, using the IRM ESU sound decoder ?

Tara Junction from Noel of this Parish. As Boskonay said,  you can reset decoder as many times as you need.

[irishthump]

19 minutes ago, DJ Dangerous said:

To the re-mapping functions?

Yes you can remap the functions on any ESU Loksound decoder. However, it's best done with the Lokprogrammer. It can be done by reprogramming individual CV's but this is complex and risky. The Loksound V5 has over 2000 CVs many of which have to be accessed with indices.

[Jonathan_RK]

I don't have a Lokprogrammer. I do appreciate the complexities involved having studied the LokPilot and LokSound instruction manuals.

If I do a reset on the LokSound decoder, then I take a risk and hope the sound file will not be corrupted or erased. In this instance, I'd prefer

if IRM could do the reset for me. If there are any issues then they can address them directly, and they will be in control of the process.

[irishrailways52]

On 29/7/2023 at 5:18 PM, Fowler4f said:

Yes, 52 locos & four 22000 sets on order, and no I’m not a millionaire, just a retired UK based train driver with a pension and no mortgage.

Mamma Mia. you must have some layout

 

[Jonathan_RK]

Referring to the ESU LokSound Instruction manual, 15. Edition, November 2022, page 101

CV    | Name                    | Description

CV8 | Manufacturer‘s ID | Manufacturers‘s ID ESU - Writing value 8 in this CV triggers a reset to factory default values.

I take this to mean that the decoder will be reset to ESU factory default values. If any sound file was written to the decoder in the factory, then the sound file should be part of the factory default data and not be changed in any way due to a reset action. I hope this is the case.

 

[DJ Dangerous]

2 hours ago, irishthump said:

Yes you can remap the functions on any ESU Loksound decoder. However, it's best done with the Lokprogrammer. It can be done by reprogramming individual CV's but this is complex and risky. The Loksound V5 has over 2000 CVs many of which have to be accessed with indices.

 

Legend!