Ardree Quay

[LNERW1]

The point with the curves is a good one. I think the best move would probably be to have the Pecketts be a relic of the line’s early years; there were much tighter curves within Galway city as the line originally was a tramway, but in the 1890s several tunnels were dug and the line became usable by larger engines. However, conflicts with the MGWR meant few other locos worked the line and as the Pecketts were fairly new and there were still tight curves in many yards along the line, they remained until 1965 when their pickup goods and shunting duties were taken over by No. 9, which had worked on the line since 1934, and a new diesel shunter. I may get a G class for the latter, but I’m not sure yet.

[Westcorkrailway]

2 hours ago, LNERW1 said:

You have exposed my woeful ignorance, JHB- thanks again. I do intend to run the C class on goods work, so similar enough to Loughrea.

Re the tank engines, I’ll probably get a Hornby Peckett W4 and B2, 0-4-0 and 0-6-0 saddle tanks respectively, as they are both available in MSC green, which is close enough to CIÉ green until I get around to repainting them. The idea is that they were ordered by the Galway and South Connemara Railway before it was absorbed into the GSR, as the railway stayed independent from the MGWR and so didn’t pick up as much design influence, although I do plan on basing some architectural elements on stations in Galway and the northwest.

As JHB pointed out. mr Good has given to me a copy from his long list of invaluable documents the first time each C class ran in west cork (all of them having visited west cork by the end of 1959) meaning any C class could work your layout. I however would hold out on a silverfox C class because I have a feeling an IRM one will avarice in the midium term. As for the AEC railcar. I found them to be not good enough. The plastic very fiddly and falling apart. Hence I sold mine 

 

@jhb171achill a C class in green in 1966! 

also CIE Had a Peckett! In original as deleivered Peckett Green but it was very very weathered so you could hardly make out it was green. It was withdrawn in 1950 but you could “work around that” 

 

I would probobly get GSWR no.90 if funds allowed too. 

[jhb171achill]

2 hours ago, LNERW1 said:

You have exposed my woeful ignorance, JHB- thanks again. I do intend to run the C class on goods work, so similar enough to Loughrea.

Re the tank engines, I’ll probably get a Hornby Peckett W4 and B2, 0-4-0 and 0-6-0 saddle tanks respectively, as they are both available in MSC green, which is close enough to CIÉ green until I get around to repainting them. The idea is that they were ordered by the Galway and South Connemara Railway before it was absorbed into the GSR, as the railway stayed independent from the MGWR and so didn’t pick up as much design influence, although I do plan on basing some architectural elements on stations in Galway and the northwest.

Looking again at your initial thoughts, and trying to shoe-horn reality into fantasy, exactly as I do on Dugort Harbour, we've many possibilities. Your layout is more branch than mainline, so this Connemara line - had it existed - would certainly have seen C classes working on it. Had the West Cork system lasted into the 1960s, you'd have seen Cs and 141s there. Had the Achill or Clifden lines have survived, same.

I have two Silverfox Cs on Dugort Harbour, though they're in store right now. One is green, to represent 1957-early 60s, and the other is black to represent 1963-70. I agree with WestCorkRailway, the Silverfox railcars are woeful, right down to livery being 100% wrong in all details. Await an IRM one, hopefully!

So, you'd need laminate coaches too - the IRM Park Royals also perhaps - might be a good start. Unlikely Cravens would have appeared there, but certainly possible.

As to the steam engine, don't worry about the shade of green - had CIE held onto a little thing like a Peckett, it would never have been green - it would have remained plain grey to the end. But the independent company, just like Allman's Distillery in Wisht Caark, boy, might have simply received it in maker's livery and done nothing more than patch it up now and again. As W C Rly said, by the time CIE inherited it, filth would be the livery of the day! Another aspect, of course, is that your independent railway might have kept it on as a "pet" and adopted the maker's green as their own actual livery, and kept it clean!

Indeed, you might order those shunters in black, if that's available? CIE did paint some engines black in the last few years instead of grey. The beauty is - no lining or lettering or anything, no crests or logos - just plain black with a number on the side!

    Like this - just paint the red connecting rod into weathered black and you're good to go! Remove makers plate and add a fictitious CIE number - or, keep it as it is, if it is to be still independently owned!

 

[Mike 84C]

Who needs a number? several CIE locos only had names Sambo and Jumbo spring to mind!   A Peckett called Pat, Percy, Joan the list is endless!

[jhb171achill]

19 minutes ago, Mike 84C said:

Who needs a number? several CIE locos only had names Sambo and Jumbo spring to mind!   A Peckett called Pat, Percy, Joan the list is endless!

Indeed - especially if the back story is that it's still privately owned. Guinness had their own engines to "feed" wagons into heuston station well into the 1960s; Courtaulds had little green shunters of their own - two or three of them - which, actually, I think were Pecketts themselves, albeit of a totally different design. Irish Shell BP had a little 4-wheel Planet diesel shunter at Alexandra Road well into the 1960s. It's a Whitehead now. Tiny little thing wihich would make 90 look like an 800 class...........

[Westcorkrailway]

1 minute ago, jhb171achill said:

Indeed - especially if the back story is that it's still privately owned. Guinness had their own engines to "feed" wagons into heuston station well into the 1960s; Courtaulds had little green shunters of their own - two or three of them - which, actually, I think were Pecketts themselves, albeit of a totally different design. Irish Shell BP had a little 4-wheel Planet diesel shunter at Alexandra Road well into the 1960s. It's a Whitehead now. Tiny little thing wihich would make 90 look like an 800 class...........

The Burma shunter at cork was litterally a 1960s tractor so it could be worse….

 

 

23 minutes ago, Mike 84C said:

Who needs a number? several CIE locos only had names Sambo and Jumbo spring to mind!   A Peckett called Pat, Percy, Joan the list is endless!

St mologa and argideen also spring to mind. Is there any other CIE locos with only a name and no number?

[jhb171achill]

2 hours ago, Westcorkrailway said:

The Burma shunter at cork was litterally a 1960s tractor so it could be worse….

 

 

St mologa and argideen also spring to mind. Is there any other CIE locos with only a name and no number?

Yes. Jumbo and Sambo, shunters in Waterford and Dublin, and the vertical-boilered “Pat” in Cork.

[LNERW1]

Ballast going down over most of the layout now. I’m also looking to buy some XPS insulation foam for scenery and I’ve marked a plank of wood, will cut it to make the road heading to the ferry terminal for Sheehaun.

[Stoby]

You may get the foam from Here  

https://unilininsulation.ie/products/xps/

[DJ Dangerous]

Where are the photos? This was one of the hottest topics on the forum this week, yet all I can see are words.

Everybody knows how many words a photo is worth!

[LNERW1]

Give us a minute, DJ…

I’ve ballasted almost all of the layout at this point, and I’ve managed to glue it all down without sticking any point blades in place. Photos up presently.

[LNERW1]

Alright, after 20 minutes of trying to film a minute-long video, here you go. I was too lazy to type up a post and I’m regretting it now, but oh well.

 

 

(Also took an obscene amount of time to upload)

[LNERW1]

Side note- if anyone finds a Peckett B2 or W4 in close to CIÉ green or black, for less than RRP, please send me a link. Thanks.

[David Holman]

On 29/7/2024 at 4:06 PM, Westcorkrailway said:

The Burma shunter at cork was litterally a 1960s tractor so it could be worse….

 

 

St mologa and argideen also spring to mind. Is there any other CIE locos with only a name and no number?

Though not CIE, but partly in the Republic, all of the Sligo Leitrim locos only had names, not numbers.

[DJ Dangerous]

Great to see the update, @LNERW1!

I have had a very similar loco and coach for about four decades now, and still cherish them.

Looking forward to more pics and videos.

As you can tell, literacy is not a strong point for me.

[LNERW1]

Nothing has happened.

Does anyone have any advice on realistic couplings? Just looking for somewhere to get fairly cheap, good-looking three links. Thanks.

[Metrovik]

Old jewellery?

[LNERW1]

Looking for something proprietary but that could work…

[Galteemore]

Wizard models, Ambis, Smiths all do them. Planning on using them for operation? 

[Mayner]

1 hour ago, LNERW1 said:

Nothing has happened.

Does anyone have any advice on realistic couplings? Just looking for somewhere to get fairly cheap, good-looking three links. Thanks.

 

Smiths Couplings available set of 8 from Peters Spares in the UK https://www.petersspares.com/p/smiths-lp1-couplings-eight-etched-brass-3-link-couplings-kit-form possibly a bit fiddly to assemble (fine nose pliers), but fairly popular with modellers that use 3 Links

Markits another coupling and parts supplier are currently not taking orders because of medical issues http://www.markits.com/

BR Open Wagon assembled from a Parkside kit  with Smiths Instanter couplings, wagon is overdue for repairs!

Underside of wagon showing coupling hook and spring, no bracing or obstructions in the way, but it looks like I ground off a moulding for a coupling mount.

These type of couplers are easy enough to fit to kit or scratchbuilt wagons, but more challenging to diill a hole/form a slot for the coupling hook and spring in a rtr chassis with a plastic injection moulded underframe.

IRM screw or instanter couplings are probably the best option for fitting scale couplings to their wagons https://irishrailwaymodels.com/en-au/collections/couplers?srsltid=AfmBOoot0kRhFMSdFA_pwavabhrZvsU-9yso5SKcJwcLJswmBxiIAwRQ

 

[David Holman]

Good advice from John, as ever. Smith's couplings aren't completely to scale, but the more open hook and slightly larger links make them useable while still looking the part. Definitely better than tension locks, though a lot of people use threes links within takes of wagons and coaches, with something else either end for easier shunting.

 Screw link couplings certainly look good, but operationally are the Spawn of Satan and (especially between corridor coaches) are best avoided!

[LNERW1]

On 21/8/2024 at 11:19 PM, Galteemore said:

Wizard models, Ambis, Smiths all do them. Planning on using them for operation? 

Yes. I’m just looking for something more realistic than tension locks. 

 

1 hour ago, David Holman said:

Good advice from John, as ever. Smith's couplings aren't completely to scale, but the more open hook and slightly larger links make them useable while still looking the part. Definitely better than tension locks, though a lot of people use threes links within takes of wagons and coaches, with something else either end for easier shunting.

 Screw link couplings certainly look good, but operationally are the Spawn of Satan and (especially between corridor coaches) are best avoided!

Luckily David, I don’t plan on using screw links for corridor stock! At the moment I’m planning on having relatively fixed rakes of two coaches using Hunt Couplings’ magnetic option, as I’ve heard good things about them and I’m happy to support smaller manufacturers. Screw links are just for the end of rakes, locos and wagons.

Regarding carriages, does anyone know where I can find something to repaint into an Irish-ish coach? I don’t have the wallet or skills of a lot of people on this forum so proprietary or Gibbo-ised coaches aren’t really an option unfortunately. Thanks in advance, and sorry for the lack of progress.

[Galteemore]

Re coaches, old Mainline LMS ones have a nice almost Irish appearance. Not expensive either. 

[Mayner]

The older type of Hornby 'Stanier' coaches which occasionally appear on the second hand market https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/285972832947?_nkw=stanier&itmmeta=01J69MYT9SGHM8AT95CCBXYXYW&hash=item42954f22b3:g:Ak4AAOSwaV9mnjWi&amdata=enc%3AAQAJAAAA4Mxmj%2BiGvOveHXEBClPb29jgQ8oOAxj3xa%2FaEsHINxqwuTT%2BgOi8GzoeujHZCOtNKG1NDT1XUU8jFgpswGIy6PRTu8PWjqdE%2BPoWHbWhlq6T73tORpprnUGTkaSfjpttXthGFhRlquomOa07nQlHQWxbhxNA%2BsCe8pSjWhD8eJ%2B1%2Biri1dBmQloe8MwD5%2BHhEFvbUF5k1u9S74%2FLRpRkleNIdlBM2X%2BqzdhVdhsBrGg8ljFxGOsNtCLgalkGWHNAmEp4Y2Zfg1ChpKpIwmhGdvMFTss0X81V0bAVjo%2FYYEqY|tkp%3ABk9SR4Cl-7SyZA are similar in general outline to the GSR Bredin and CIE coaches introduced in the early 1950s.

Good for either a simple repaint or more the more extensive sort of alteration carried out by Gibbo.

Running can be improved by replacing the original plastic wheels and axle with Hornby metal coach wheels.

 

[LNERW1]

Thanks lads. I’ll look into both. I presume new-enough Black n’ Tan or weathered green will look best? Thanks.

[LNERW1]

Lads I need some serious help. Absolutely nothing has happened. I’ve spent years building up knowledge on how to make scenery but god is it difficult when you get to it. There are so many massive roadblocks thrown up by lack of planning and I’m worried I could have to abandon this iteration as it just didn’t have a set structure from the start and I didn’t know what I was doing. I don’t want to get rid of what I’ve done, though, so can anyone help here? I feel quite lost and need a bit of help.

[Rob]

Look at what you HAVE done to date- despite saying 'absolutely nothing has happened', based on the videos and photos, there has been decent progress to be fair.

Given the work you've done to date, l'd personally be reluctant to 'get rid' of it but work around it.

Take this as 'Day Zero'- where do you want to go from here- what do you want to do overall and what is the next logical step to get there?

It will take time to get there but would be worth it- l was lucky to be completing Heuston North layout during lockdown so learnt there is no rush.

You are a long way along than a lot!

[jhb171achill]

On 27/8/2024 at 10:43 AM, Galteemore said:

Re coaches, old Mainline LMS ones have a nice almost Irish appearance. Not expensive either. 

And indeed they’re exactly the same design that ran on the NCC system.

[Mayner]

1 hour ago, LNERW1 said:

Lads I need some serious help. Absolutely nothing has happened. I’ve spent years building up knowledge on how to make scenery but god is it difficult when you get to it. There are so many massive roadblocks thrown up by lack of planning and I’m worried I could have to abandon this iteration as it just didn’t have a set structure from the start and I didn’t know what I was doing. I don’t want to get rid of what I’ve done, though, so can anyone help here? I feel quite lost and need a bit of help.

Don't get dishearted some of us experience set backs in their modelling and like most aspects of like it takes time and practice to build up our modelling skills. Currently I have three incomplete layouts (2 indoors) I haven't had time to work on during the last 6-12 months. In my late teens early 20s I got frustrated trying to build a OO gauge Irish layout in the box bedroom, changed to N and managed to build a reasonably successful layout on my second attempt.  Many of us experience setbacks in our modelling so keep plugging on and dont give up!

Might be worth trying focus on taking it one step at a time complete one small area of the layout, a building, coach or loco or try Galteemores' approach and build a small diorama for a start

[DJ Dangerous]

I'd agree with @Rob and @Mayner.

Don't get bogged down with details like sticking no-smoking signs everywhere (ahem, @Rob ).

Stick down some track, keep playing around with it and tweaking it until you're happy with the functionality, and then, when you know what you like, start worrying about scenery.

[jhb171achill]

Agreed. In experimental stages it's a completely blank canvas. Even some much more experienced railway modellers, with several (or many!) comprehensive and complex layouts under their belt, will start a new one with some particular plan in mind, and it will end up as something else entirely.

Once you've played about a bit, and decided what you want the final thing to look like or represent (if anything, and it doesn't have to!), then you can always sell off any rolling stock you have already acquired which you think doesn't fit.

Good luck!

[David Holman]

Very much agree with the above and overall you should expect to build multiple layouts as skills improve and tastes change or develop. It's all part of being creative.

 Easy to say here, but scenery shouldn't be complicated. Any contours are just a case of building up layers with whatever scrap materials are to hand, then covering it with plaster/filler/papier mache.

Use a small bit of board to practice beforehand, so you can try various scatter material too. Surprisingly quick and satisfying to do. Indeed, why not make a removable section of scenery, on a piece of thick card or thin board, that can be dropped in place when finished? Will need to be stuck down and blended in eventually, but will keep some of the mess away from the layout.

[Tullygrainey]

Plenty of sound advice here and I would agree with all of it. It's very easy to get disheartened when you can't see an obvious way forward and I would say we've all had that feeling at some stage, probably more than once. It's an inescapable part of practising a creative hobby. Don't despair. Something will break the log jam and the feeling will pass. You've probably acquired more skills than you realise along the way so it will come good. 

Also, as others have said, don't let the lack of an overall plan for every detail of the finished product deter you. For my own part, some of my efforts have ended up very far from the original concept (which was probably flawed and over-ambitious anyway) and are all the better for it. I would say that many, if not most, layouts evolve as the work progresses. One step at a time, one element at a time.

Best of luck with whatever you decide to do but don't give up.

[LNERW1]

Thanks lads, I feel a lot better about the layout now. I've had an idea now, which might be a bad one but I'll tell ye anyway.

Ardree quay is 18 inches wide and 4 foot long, made of 9mm board. If i were to get a 9mm thick, 6 foot by 4 foot board and cut it longitudally into four sections, this would provide four more modules the exact same size. Along with upgrading Ardree's current baseboard, I could quintuple the effective length (all in modules that can be stored while not in use). I of course don't plan on building the layout that far with scenery and all, but I do need an adjacent module to the current one to be able to finish it. I may as well kill four birds with one stone, and so I think i might go through with this idea. If I were to do so, this would be the arrangement. the current Ardree Quay is on the far right. Modules are in [brackets] while scenic breaks are listed in between.

[Fiddle yard(cassette)]-bridge-[Shed/Yard module]-[countryside module]-[Farmyard module]-Bridge under a road accessing Ardree Ferry Terminal-[Current Ardree Quay layout].

I appreciate this might not be too clear but hopefully it gives you a good idea of where I plan to go with the layout basically up until Christmas. Past the bridge on the far left I may eventually add more modules. Ardree Town is intended to be directly beyond said bridge.

I also appreciate that a 20ft long layout may seem unmanageable, but again you have to remember it is intended to be operated either with the fiddle yard directly adjacent to Ardree quay at home, or in its longer state at exhibitions. That is, if I go to any with it. Speaking of, I'd appreciate if someone told me how to get a layout to exhibition. Do I get invited? Do I contact the organisers and ask to exhibit? It's all a mystery to me and I'd appreciate some help.

[DJ Dangerous]

Great stuff, Learner!

Hope you like that new nickname. It's a phonetic version of LNERW1...

All I have is a board, slides under the bed, no scenery, no nothing, and it's good enough for me: