The frightening possibilities of CAD and 3D printing technologies today

[Horsetan]

At last night's monthly meeting of the North London Group of P4 modellers, we had a lecture demonstration put on by visiting lecturer David Barham, who explained the state of CAD and 3D printing today.

He displayed samples of his work, including an ex-Great Eastern Railway J17 0-6-0 kit he is developing for Brassmasters - it looked that good, I signed up for one.

Also of interest was a sample of 3D-printed trackwork known as PlugTrack - this is a system of 3D sleepers and chairs that simply plug into rectangular holes in the sleepers. The system is derived from Martyn Wynne's famous Templot software. I thought it offered potential for Irish 21mm gauge track building.

Frighteningly good stuff.

[Gabhal Luimnigh]

It's fascinating the new technology that is available now to the ordinary enthusiast, 3D printing, wood etching, brass etching, mini lathes, air brushes, real colours, solder and welding etc etc etc., it may even get to the stage where model manufacturers might be able to sell CAD drawings to customers.

[Horsetan]

3 minutes ago, Gabhal Luimnigh said:

...., it may even get to the stage where model manufacturers might be able to sell CAD drawings to customers.

In the case of Templot and PlugTrack, the software and files themselves are free of charge, with the only cost being that to get the things printed by a print specialist. 

[Flying Snail]

Very interesting indeed. Particularly interesting to see the combination of 3D printing and brass on that J17. Thanks for sharing!!

[Westcorkrailway]

the simple fact is that rare protototpyes of wagons particularly are now way more viable. for instance somone who makes one Cork bandon and south coast railway grain wagon in times past would have scratch built 1 or 2 just for himself and at most could offer at most drawings to somone interested in one themsleves. the difference is now that making 1 is just as easy as making 100. with locomotives its still very much comparible to a scratchbuilding job if no suitibe chassis is availible. but with wagons all you need is standerd wheels and standerd couplers and some paint handy and your off. there might come a time where the "drawings"section of this website might start containing CAD drawings or even 3D models ready to print if people were generous enough!!!!

[Horsetan]

31 minutes ago, Westcorkrailway said:

the simple fact is that rare protototpyes of wagons particularly are now way more viable. for instance somone who makes one Cork bandon and south coast railway grain wagon in times past would have scratch built 1 or 2 just for himself and at most could offer at most drawings to somone interested in one themsleves. the difference is now that making 1 is just as easy as making 100. with locomotives its still very much comparible to a scratchbuilding job if no suitibe chassis is availible. but with wagons all you need is standerd wheels and standerd couplers and some paint handy and your off. there might come a time where the "drawings"section of this website might start containing CAD drawings or even 3D models ready to print if people were generous enough!!!!

David Barham also showed us three Cavan & Leitrim open wagons that he'd been asked to print for OOn3. He said that current technology allowed him to print all three wagons in about one hour.

1 hour ago, Flying Snail said:

Very interesting indeed. Particularly interesting to see the combination of 3D printing and brass on that J17. Thanks for sharing!!

Will be available as a Brassmasters kit in due course, probably next year.

[Mike 84C]

Thanks for sharing with us Horsetan  3d printing seems to be moving so very fast. It will be interesting if vendors on Shapeways or even Shapeways improve their offerings.

[Bob49]

I've been using rapid prototyping/3D printing for the last 25 years in industry. The first step in producing good 3D prints is the CAD package. It's the output as it's all about the density of the triangles generated for the STL file. 

The other thing to consider is the type of printer. Sometimes it worth paying extra for some a little bit higher spec.

Marc

[DJ Dangerous]

At the risk of opening a can of worms here, and I love opening cans of worms, the only real limits are moral and financial.

3D printing makes it very easy to copy somebody else's work without putting in the graft that they did in the first place.

This is what China has been accused of for decades, stealing technology, reverse-engineering and basically copying others work while skipping the initial set-up cost.

I assume that there is some sort of association for those who make 3D prints, with some kind of guidelines and standards, much like the NMRA etc?

[Horsetan]

7 minutes ago, DJ Dangerous said:

....This is what China has been accused of for decades, stealing technology, reverse-engineering and basically copying others work while skipping the initial set-up cost.....

Does that mean there might be a few counterfeit IRM "A" class models out there?

[DJ Dangerous]

7 minutes ago, Horsetan said:

Does that mean there might be a few counterfeit IRM "A" class models out there?

 

I believe that the topic of smuggling counterfeit A's has already been discussed elsewhere, and while trying not to be as rude and uncouth as I usually am, the smooth lines and rounded edges of the A would likely make them a favoured candidate over an 071 or a 141, when it comes to smuggling.

[Dunluce Castle]

I have to agree with what others have said above, 3D printing has huge potential, especially resin printing which leaves very little visible print lines and fine detail. The models pictured above look great! 

[Westcorkrailway]

49 minutes ago, DJ Dangerous said:

At the risk of opening a can of worms here, and I love opening cans of worms, the only real limits are moral and financial.

3D printing makes it very easy to copy somebody else's work without putting in the graft that they did in the first place.

This is what China has been accused of for decades, stealing technology, reverse-engineering and basically copying others work while skipping the initial set-up cost.

I assume that there is some sort of association for those who make 3D prints, with some kind of guidelines and standards, much like the NMRA etc?

One would assume that A: direct copy’s of others work would be frighteningly obvious and B: 3D printing still has many years to go before it could say, replicate a product even half faithfully would be quite hard. Let’s just say I don’t know if a 3D printed A class is around the corner

[DJ Dangerous]

1 minute ago, Westcorkrailway said:

One would assume that A: direct copy’s of others work would be frighteningly obvious and B: 3D printing still has many years to go before it could say, replicate a product even half faithfully would be quite hard. Let’s just say I don’t know if a 3D printed A class is around the corner

 

S##t, was hoping an O Gauge one WAS around the corner!

Although I have to disagree with you on the quality, the pics in the first post here are sublime.

Somebody, possibly @popeye, has posted pics of 3D stuff in their workbench thread, and it can produce exquisite results.

[Mayner]

First heard of the potential for 3D modelling and printing in a lecture from Neil Ward (a leader in the field) at a NZ Model Railway conference about 18 years ago https://nwmodelworks.com/449737396 

I have been commercially producing 4mm Scale of Irish Wagons since 2021.

While I am an experienced designer it was necessary to outsource the 3D modelling (3D CAD work) on our first models to a Freelance Designer at similar cost to designing a model for plastic injection moulding, like other smaller manufacturers I have outsourced 3D Printing to a Far Eastern print shop for similar reason to conventional manufacturers outsource their manufacture to China, they are the only ones who can compete on price, quality, delivery and customer service. 

While there is a lot of talk about printing on a Home Printer the commonly available 'reasonably" priced desktop printers are not really up to it for consistent repetitive printing of 3D models and I don't have €80-100K available to invest in installing a full-size printer capable of printing in the resilient resins necessary for use in railway rolling stock manufacture.

At this stage I am not convinced that its feasible or desirable to produce a 4mm model of a large slender vehicle like a coach or railcar in resin, but the prospects for 7mm and larger scale modellers are more promising.

The FDM (fusion deposition modelling) is a better option than Resin Printing for 7mm and larger scale models provides more consistent results and less shrinkage. Woko's RM Web workbench is a good example of what can be achieved in 7mm https://www.rmweb.co.uk/forums/topic/172854-wokos-bench/page/6/#comment-5213980 

Neil Ward has produced 9mm Scale (New Zealand 3'6" gauge on O Gauge Track) diesel locomotives mechanisms which include printed metal parts including bogie frames, and transmission parts. The Waikato Bridge and the large English Electric loco on the Hamilton to Claudelands Layout were build using 3D printer parts designed and manufactured by NW Model Works.

I may produce 7mm or larger scale models at some stage in the future, but currently do not have the time as a result of family committments.

I would not be too worried about a 3D Print Bureau producing unauthorised copies of someones work, like print and photo bureau the better ones have a reputation to protect and because of the difficulty printing small scale models and high reject rate its simply not worth the hassle of trying to print multiple copies. My original NZ based supplier has refused to print further models because of this very problem, small scale models are simply not worth the hassle for a supplier who is involved in more lucrative work.

Edited February 28 by Mayner