Considering Fenit Harbour

[jhb171achill]

Wonder what that tank loco is............

[Mayner]

1 hour ago, jhb171achill said:

Wonder what that tank loco is............

Original Tralee & Fenit Harbor Commissioners loco which may not have passed to the GSWR.

Recall seeing a photo somewhere an 0-6-0WT with outside cylinders and outside Stephensons valve gear

[minister_for_hardship]

Possibly this.

[Mol_PMB]

Regarding Fenit locos, this is what I have pieced together from a variety of sources including photos, 'Waterford, Limerick and Western Railway' (Shepherd), 'The North Kerry Line' (O'Rourke) and 'Tralee to Castleisland, Dingle and Fenit' (O'Meara, IRRS Journal 179).

The line was opened in 1887 by the Tralee & Fenit Railway but operated by the Waterford & Limerick Railway, whilst the pier and harbour were the responsibility of the Tralee & Fenit Harbour Commissioners. 

The W&LR also operated the pier on behalf of the T&FHC between 1887 and 1899.

Until 1901, the branch was usually worked by W&LR 42, an 0-6-0WT built by Hawthorns in 1862, and originally 4'8.5" gauge. That is probably the loco pictured here:

As early as 1892,  were disagreements between the W&LR and the T&FHC, and the situation deteriorated until the T&FHC acquired their own loco secondhand in 1899. This was Hunslet 557 of 1892, an 0-6-0ST. In 1901 it became GSWR and GSR 299, and after reboilering in 1937 it continued to work Fenit pier until it was closed in 1941. 299 latterly worked in the Cork area, surviving until 1957:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511909775/

A similar Hunslet loco GSWR 300 was also used at Fenit for a while in the late 1920s.
GSWR 100 also worked at Fenit for a while in the 1930s, probably covering for 299's absence.

As well as the closure of the pier (owing to its poor condition) in 1941, traffic on the branch in the 1940s was badly affected by the fuel shortages during the Emergency and with traffic dwindling to a few wagons of beet, complete closure was considered in early CIE days. However, Fenit Pier was heavily rebuilt and reopened in 1955, giving the line another lease of life. 

CIE's initial plan was to overhaul 299 and return it to Fenit. However, there was a change of plan and MGWR 0-6-0T 560 was transferred from the Waterford & Tramore. 560 became the main loco at Fenit until 1963.

Until the end of the 1950s, if a smaller loco was unavailable, the loco from the Limerick-Tralee goods was used on the Fenit branch. This was most often a J15, and there are reports or photos of 100, 102, 105, 182 at Fenit.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53510358262/

However, the diesels were coming, and Fenit was no exception. From 1964 the branch was considered a suitable use for a small Deutz loco and this came to pass. In 1957, G602 was allocated to Tralee primarily to work the Castleisland branch and stayed in the area for several years. During this time it also operated to Fenit and was photographed there in 1960. Colour-Rail FIE05083 and FIE05084 show the loco clearly, it's also just visible at the end of the rake of vans here in Ernie's photo:

In 1958, E410 was trialled on the branch. Photos indicate that this loco was based in Cork in 1958/59.

Trials of a C class on the pier were also considered but this did not take place. However, at busier times the C class worked freight trains on the Fenit branch, with a smaller loco working the pier itself.

It seems that 560 remained in charge on the pier until 1963 when G617 arrived. As with G602, it seems to have been used on the Castleisland branch too. There are lots of photos of G617 at Fenit in 1963/64.

As yet I haven't found any photos of other members of the G class at Fenit - only G602 and G617. However, there are photos of G611 at Castleisland in 1967 so it's quite possible that other members of the G class did work to Fenit.

 

Meanwhile, from 1959 to 1970 there were summer Sunday passenger services to Fenit, which used the loco and stock from Cork-Tralee services. There could be up to 3 round trips to Fenit on a busy day, and sometimes two train sets were used.

From 1959 the traction was either a C class or an AEC railcar, sometimes one of each. Here's C212 and a railcar set; the railcar numbers are harder to read but I think I have confirmed 2601 and 2606 on other photos.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54252073152/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54253392935

1962 the B141s took over and remained in charge until the early 1970s when these trains ceased. Locos included B151, B153, B156, B162, B169

Freight services remained in the hands of the C class, such as C218 here:

https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000307571

But increasingly the A class made appearances, both before and after rebuild. These did not venture onto the pier.

https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000307414

Of course there were railtours as well, featuring G617, 560 and 186 (both before and after preservation by the RPSI)

 

My planned layout will only feature the pier in its post-1955, which rather restricts the suitable motive power. I'm taking the view that if it went to Fenit at least once, that's good enough for me.

So I have made E410, I have a G class kit to build (I'll probably need 2 eventually), and I'm in early stages of planning a model of 560. When IRM make a C class I'll have to bend the rules a little.

To help me decide which G611 class to model, Has anyone got photos of G611 class at Fenit, other than G617?

There are loads of photos of G617 but they are almost all from two dates in 1963/64 when railtours visited Fenit. I suspect that others of the class also worked there but I can't prove it.

 

9 minutes ago, minister_for_hardship said:

Possibly this.

Definitely that. Thanks!

Here's an anonymous G611 class at Fenit in 1968, but which one is it?

https://www.kennellyarchive.com/media/e425c297-bf48-42a6-9969-ae1f6b7d7378

[Noel]

Great idea for a layout project And the L shape may suit a room.  Been to Fenit many a time, a surreal little place of awesome beauty surrounded by tralee bay and the kerry mounts. Amongst the finest beaches in Europe.  Was struck by the vast size of the Leibherr Cranes exported from the quay transported by road from the Killarney Factory.  Can you imagine if such was possible by rail instead (no bridges would be possible).  The concrete pier at sunset is awesome in silluette as brilliant bronze sun washes through the vertical pier support structure.  We’ve cycled along part of the old track bed.

Brendan the navigator pointing west past Little Samphire light house island.

 

Warning on a gate nearby along the old track bed.

Will watch this space with interest.

[Mol_PMB]

14 minutes ago, Noel said:

Great idea for a layout project And the L shape may suit a room.  Been to Fenit many a time, a surreal little place of awesome beauty surrounded by tralee bay and the kerry mounts. Amongst the finest beaches in Europe.  Was struck by the vast size of the Leibherr Cranes exported from the quay transported by road from the Killarney Factory.  Can you imagine if such was possible by rail instead (no bridges would be possible).  The concrete pier at sunset is awesome in silluette as brilliant bronze sun washes through the vertical pier support structure.  We’ve cycled along part of the old track bed.

Thanks! I have only visited Fenit once, about 30 years ago, but I plan to go again in a few weeks time while I'm over in Cork for the railtour. The plan is train to Tralee, bus to Fenit, explore and photograph, then walk back to Tralee along the trackbed.

Back in the 1960s/70s the Liebherr cranes did go by train to Dublin Port, though they seem to have gone by road to Fenit. It's not bending reality too far for me to model a train like this at Fenit:

The Kennelly Archive has a superb selection of over 1000 photos on Fenit Pier from the 1950s to 1970s period. Very few locomotives appear in them, but plenty of ships, wagons and all the buildings etc.

https://www.kennellyarchive.com/?search=fenit

[minister_for_hardship]

On 5/3/2025 at 5:17 PM, Mol_PMB said:

I've been busy busy at work recently and not much time to focus on modelling, though a bit of time for research. Still interested in Fenit as a prototype, I've been delving into that rabbit hole.

I found this image of a rather interesting early bogie wagon, apparently a 30 ton high side open goods wagon for the Tralee & Fenit Harbour Commissioners, body 34' long, built by the Lancaster Railway Carriage & Wagon Co. Ltd. It doesn't carry a number; I wonder how many wagons the T&FHC had? There are some odd technical details such as the long 5-link coupling, the buffers spaced on blocks, handbrakes acting on all wheels. The top plank of the body seems to run the full length of the wagon. It appears to be iron or steel-framed with T-bulb section for the solebars. Bogies are a rather lightweight diamond-frame 3-piece type. Some details may have been lost in retouching the photo to hide the background.

Anyone know more about these or other T&FHC wagons?

 

Quite a find. What the yanks would call 'gondola cars' would have been extremely rare here. I'm assuming they had extremely short working lives, not passing to the GS&WR.

A few actual US gondolas did actually run here on the self contained 4' 8 1/2" Irish Steel system on Hawlbowline Island, still carrying US RR insignia.

[Flying Snail]

6 hours ago, minister_for_hardship said:

Quite a find. What the yanks would call 'gondola cars' would have been extremely rare here. I'm assuming they had extremely short working lives, not passing to the GS&WR.

A few actual US gondolas did actually run here on the self contained 4' 8 1/2" Irish Steel system on Hawlbowline Island, still carrying US RR insignia.

There's one 'gondola car' pictured here in Waterford in GSWR markings, pre 1910 as the timber bridge (aka Timbertoes) is still in situ. The GSWR lettering is blurry, but when I zoom in I can make it out

Original picture is in the NLI archive here https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000326744

 

Edited Thursday at 16:33 by Flying Snail

[Mol_PMB]

4 minutes ago, Flying Snail said:

There's one 'gondola car' pictured here in Waterford in GSWR markings, pre 1910 as the timber bridge (aka Timbertoes) is still in situ. The GSWR lettering is blurry, but when I zoom in I can make it out

Original picture is in the NLI archive here https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000326744

 

An excellent find! Well done!

[Flying Snail]

There's some interesting stock there, including a butter van thats out of shot in my screen grab above, but to the lefthand side of the original image.

[minister_for_hardship]

1 hour ago, Flying Snail said:

There's one 'gondola car' pictured here in Waterford in GSWR markings, pre 1910 as the timber bridge (aka Timbertoes) is still in situ. The GSWR lettering is blurry, but when I zoom in I can make it out

Original picture is in the NLI archive here https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000326744

 

It's a beast of a wagon next to the 4 wheel yokes.

[Mol_PMB]

4 minutes ago, minister_for_hardship said:

It's a beast of a wagon next to the 4 wheel yokes.

I wonder how it behaved around the sharp curve onto Fenit pier? I reckon it was about 65m / 3 chains radius. Bogie rotation wouldn't have been a problem but I'd imagine that bufferlocking could be an issue.

Maybe one day I'll find out in model form?

[Rob R]

Zoomed in a bit.

I will have to keep a look out when browsing the NLI

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, Rob R said:

Zoomed in a bit.

I will have to keep a look out when browsing the NLI

That is a very exceptionally rare beast indeed. I wonder was it the only one they had? Is it the same one seen at Fenit? I am unaware of a solitary example, anywhere else in Ireland, at any time, of a wagon even remotely similar. And I have been intently poring over every photo I can get my hands on for almost sixty years by now. In this pic it has "G S W R" on it, rather than Fenit Pier markings, so obviously it was taken into GSW stock. I suspect that most of the time it simply shuttled coal between Fenit and Tralee, which doubtless will be why we never see or hear much of it. An excellent find. Note the rust on the ironwork of the right-hand wagon, appearing so much darker, and faded grey paintwork on the timber bits. GSWR wagons were painted a very much darker shade of grey (I have a sample) than this photo would suggest; as seen on the bogie, and the four-wheeler on the left, of course!

Edited Thursday at 20:48 by jhb171achill

[Mol_PMB]

The wagon appears identical to the T&FHC one, though the only photo of that in T&FHC livery appears to be a maker’s photo before delivery. I have no idea if there was more than one. 
The T&FHC had fallen out with the W&LR to the extent that they bought their own loco, so perhaps no surprise they bought one or more wagons too. 

[Mayner]

On 6/3/2025 at 6:17 AM, Mol_PMB said:

I've been busy busy at work recently and not much time to focus on modelling, though a bit of time for research. Still interested in Fenit as a prototype, I've been delving into that rabbit hole.

I found this image of a rather interesting early bogie wagon, apparently a 30 ton high side open goods wagon for the Tralee & Fenit Harbour Commissioners, body 34' long, built by the Lancaster Railway Carriage & Wagon Co. Ltd. It doesn't carry a number; I wonder how many wagons the T&FHC had? There are some odd technical details such as the long 5-link coupling, the buffers spaced on blocks, handbrakes acting on all wheels. The top plank of the body seems to run the full length of the wagon. It appears to be iron or steel-framed with T-bulb section for the solebars. Bogies are a rather lightweight diamond-frame 3-piece type. Some details may have been lost in retouching the photo to hide the background.

Anyone know more about these or other T&FHC wagons?

 

Interesting the Tralee & Dingle acquired a bogie van from the "Tubular Frame Wagon Co" in 1892 the long horizontal framing member looks tubular in section in the Alamy photo where you would usually expect to see a steel channel or rectangular section solebar. The underframe bracing and archbar trucks (bogies) appear very light in section for a goods wagon. There is a photo and a drawing of the T&D Tubular Frame Bogie Van No40(t) in David Rowand's Tralee & Dingle album (Bradford Barton 1977)

Perhaps a sales rep trying to sell 'modern' high capacity wagons visited Tralee around the same time as the Harbor Commissioners fell out with the W&L.  Some railway companies including the BNCR experimented with 'high capacity" wagons around the turn of the Century and wagon builders like Lancashire C&W would have been building high capacity wagons for the 'Colonies"

The Lancashire wagon is quite different from American practice where Gondola's steel or timber framed usually have fixed sides and ends