London Road Models

[LNERW1]

Just a quick question for the several brilliant brass modellers on this forum- I want to begin modelling in brass in the not-too-distant future (think 1.5/2 yrs. need to get some other stuff up and running first), and one kit I would like to build is the London Road LBSCR B4. Could any of the aforementioned brass wizards advise me on whether this kit, or more accurately London Road kits in general, are difficult to build for one only starting out working with brass? Thanks for reading and, if you reply, thank you again.

LNERW1

[Galteemore]

Can’t speak for LRM, but try looking on RM Web or similar sites for reviews. What I would not do is start with a B4 though. The way you learn in brass model making is by making mistakes and finding out how to fix them. The B4 will cost a lot if it is a learning project. Added to that,  it’s a 4-4-0; one of the most difficult types of loco to balance and get to run. Start off with a brass kit of a wagon - or even a plate layers hut. That will give you a feel for how a kit works and teach you not to panic when things go wrong. Then go up to a coach or a small tank engine, then your B4. I’m no brass master but have built a few metal engines (finishing off one right now) so have learnt a little bit….this one has caused me significant problems. Had it been my first engine, it would probably have gone in the bin before we got to this stage…..

Edited March 15 by Galteemore

[murrayec]

As Galteemore suggests a less complex etched kit is a better starting point for first time around.

Some reference books on kit building would be helpful, a bit of study before you start;-

'Etched Loco Construction' by Iain Rice, Wild Swan Publications ISBN 090686786X

'Locomotive Kit Chassis Construction in 4mm' by Iain Rice, WSP, ISBN 1874103100

'The 4mm Engine A Scratchbuilder's Guide' by Guy Williams, WSP, ISBN 0906867703

'Scratch-Building Model Railway Locomotives' By Simon Bolton, Crowood Press Ltd

to name a few good ones

I've included scratch building in the list as this knowledge is immensely helpful when working on kits.

Eoin

 

 

 

[Mayner]

Like Galteemore & Eoin's comments a loco kit especially a 4-4-0 would be challenging for a first time build, possibly a fold together wagon kit line the SSM 30T Goods Brake which can be assembled by gluing or solder would be a good starting point before moving on to a more complex kit such as a complete wagon such as SSM GNR 30T Brake or my MGWR Horse Box or Meat Van.

Although I started by assembling a SSM/TMD Midland Tank and a J15 when the kits were released in the early 80s , it took me another 10 years to achieve a reasonable level of skill and experience in loco kit building to assemble a reasonably presentable model. One of the advantages of working in etched brass or nickel silver, is that you can usually salvage and re-work a kit if you run into problems during the initial assembly or want to improve the finish of the model at a later date. 

If your determined to start with a loco as your first build consider O Gauge and one of Jim McGowan's Connisseur Models, they have a good reputation of being straightforward to build and produce a simple 'starter" loco kit  www.jimmcgeown.com.

It would be worth checking out the books referred to by Eoin and also considering scratchbuilding, as a teenager I tried building tin plate loco bodies with the metal salvaged from food and drinks tins and tried my hand at soldering before moving on to kits after I began working. To my mind some of the tin plate bodies looked reasonably ok, after several false starts my first working loco and pride and joy was an SLNCR 0-6-4T on a cut down Triang Princess chassis fitted with small Triang Jinty driving wheels.

In a way I am still learning and acquiring new tools over 40 years after my first attempts at kit building.

 

Edited March 16 by Mayner

[Mol_PMB]

I agree with all of the above.

I can't comment specifically on London Road Models kits as I haven't built one myself. You may get a better view on those over on RMweb. What I will say is that of the dozens of etched kits I've built over the years, some have been excellent, many are OK, but there are some truly terrible ones out there as well. Build up your skills with ones that people recommend as good.

Soldering is a key skill, and it's well worth learning about this from books or online tutorials - whatever format suits you best - and lots of practice. I would encourage you to learn to solder first, which you can do with any old offcuts of thin brass (I expect anyone into brass kits could give you a free pack of etch fret offcuts). Don't glue the first kit - soldering is far better and it's a skill you need to learn at the start and develop over time, rather than being scared of it.

The right iron and temperature, the right solder, the right flux, and cleanliness of the metal are all important. Get those right and it's easy! 

Different soldering jobs may call for different tools/solders etc, but for 99% of my etched kit building I use these:

25W temperature-controlled soldering iron with interchangeable bits, Carrs green flux, leaded 145 degree solder, and a fine brush for applying the flux.

 

While we're on tools, I gathered together the tools I've used for building the E class. I think I've got most of them here:

Not shown are a small vice, and an ultrasonic bath for cleaning up after each soldering session. Also various odd bits of wood etc.

As you progress with building your skills on etched kits, you will gradually build up your toolkit too. And your stocks of brass offcuts, wire, small nuts and bolts etc.

 

It's very rewarding to make a nice brass model. Start simple, gradually build up towards your dream loco.

 

[Galteemore]

Jim McGeown, cited by Mayner, sold me my first kit. He’s a genius at writing friendly instructions which will teach you the basics, and has a how to manual on his website. Here’s the instructions for his O gauge starter loco. It will give you an idea of what’s involved. Brass is a great part of the hobby to get involved in, so do go for it. 0 Gauge Starter Loco pdf print off.pdf

[Tullygrainey]

All the above is sound advice, especially the recommendation to start simply. Building any etched kit is challenging when you first attempt it. Be prepared to make mistakes and get things wrong but don't be discouraged. Hang in there and it will come good.  It's all part of the learning process and we all have failed projects in our repertoire (and in a bottom drawer).

It's difficult to generalise about London Road Models kits. As you can see from their website, the catalogue includes kits designed and originally marketed by many different people, some a considerable time ago. However, LRM has updated and improved them in line with developments along the way so you can be sure they are all of serviceable quality. The only LRM kit I built, a L&Y Barton 0-6-0 was well made and straightforward to build -  at least it would have been if I hadn't been trying to convert it into a Belfast and County Down loco.

Have a look at High Level Kits website. There are some very nice small engine kits there as well as chassis kits to fit under ready-to-run bodies. High Level's kits also have the best instructions I have ever seen. You can download these from the website to give you an idea of what's involved.

I'd also endorse Eoin's booklist above, especially the work of Iain Rice. It was his writing that inspired me to give kit-building a go. I suspect both are out of print but second-hand copies can be found - try Abebooks. 

As regards tools, an exhaustive list of 'essentials' would probably break the bank! For myself, I gradually built my tool set up over time, buying things when I found I needed them. For example, I only acquired a pillar drill when I began scratch-building. Having said all that, there are a few things you'll need from the get-go, a soldering iron being the obvious one. As Mol says above a 25 watt iron will do the job and I managed without a temperature controlled one until fairly recently. 

It's impossible to build an etched kit without a set of broaches for opening out holes and a few needle files for fettling and tidying up so I'd recommend those as essentials. In general, buy the best you can afford. 

Welcome to the community of modellers with burnt fingertips. It can be a frustrating activity but it's also hugely satisfying. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Alan

Edited March 16 by Tullygrainey

[murrayec]

This may also be helpful;-

 

[Northroader]

One thing I found with the kits for something like a 4-4-0, is the number of small parts there are. You can get a few sheets of etched bits and you’ll find it can run into hundreds of small pieces. You can get an accurate model, but it can sorely try your patience working on things like brake work, which can become very fiddly. The smaller loco you pick the better, for an easy start experience.

[Colin R]

One thing which comes to mind, and that is practice soldering before you start on a kit, the more you do the better you become  and a lot fewer burnt fingers to boot, and the different types of soldering will be helpful, ie Brass sheet is harder that say covering a wire in solder and so on

Here are a couple of useful sites to look at:-

https://www.instructables.com/How-to-solder/

 

https://www.clfinescale.co.uk/copy-of-c-l-product-diagrams

https://www.clfinescale.co.uk/solderingtechniques

 

hope this helps

 

Colin R

[leslie10646]

Really excellent advice from Colin.

How many years of practise went into @Galteemore, @David Holman @Tullygrainey @Patrick Davey's efforts, to name a few?   Patrick especially soldiered on after "not quite right efforts" (I know because I sold him two of one of my kits, after he "practised" on the first one - now look at what he's doing!!!!

Not for nothing do we old people say "Practise makes Perfect"!!!!

[Colin R]

Just as an aside, the nice man at Worsley (Allen) used to sell or give away packets of scrap brass and nickel silver to practice on at exhibitions. Nothing too big, but a lot of free strips of old sheet. As a side note, though, Des might have a load of old scrap brass you could ask him for.

 

[Mol_PMB]

I've got plenty I could send you, but we'll end up in the post-Brexit customs/VAT/shipping cost nightmare. So if you can find a source more locally that would probably be better.

[LNERW1]

22 hours ago, Galteemore said:

Can’t speak for LRM, but try looking on RM Web or similar sites for reviews. What I would not do is start with a B4 though. The way you learn in brass model making is by making mistakes and finding out how to fix them. The B4 will cost a lot if it is a learning project. Added to that,  it’s a 4-4-0; one of the most difficult types of loco to balance and get to run. Start off with a brass kit of a wagon - or even a plate layers hut. That will give you a feel for how a kit works and teach you not to panic when things go wrong. Then go up to a coach or a small tank engine, then your B4. I’m no brass master but have built a few metal engines (finishing off one right now) so have learnt a little bit….this one has caused me significant problems. Had it been my first engine, it would probably have gone in the bin before we got to this stage…..

Thanks so much for the advice on 4-4-0s. I had no idea this was a problem, and I'm quite glad I've found out.

 

21 hours ago, murrayec said:

As Galteemore suggests a less complex etched kit is a better starting point for first time around.

Some reference books on kit building would be helpful, a bit of study before you start;-

'Etched Loco Construction' by Iain Rice, Wild Swan Publications ISBN 090686786X

'Locomotive Kit Chassis Construction in 4mm' by Iain Rice, WSP, ISBN 1874103100

'The 4mm Engine A Scratchbuilder's Guide' by Guy Williams, WSP, ISBN 0906867703

'Scratch-Building Model Railway Locomotives' By Simon Bolton, Crowood Press Ltd

to name a few good ones

I've included scratch building in the list as this knowledge is immensely helpful when working on kits.

Eoin

 

 

 

I'll look into these- from experience Wild Swan books seem to be a little easier to find than some others, but that "experience" is limited to looking for 3 or 4 WSP books that came up within about a minute of Googling. Luckily the ones you listed come up immediately when searched- however the first two are over £100. Unfortunately, I happen to be too young to be employed in a job well-paying enough to buy those, but by the time I "plan" to start getting into brass modelling I may be able to get a part-time job of some kind to pay for it.

 

20 hours ago, Mayner said:

Like Galteemore & Eoin's comments a loco kit especially a 4-4-0 would be challenging for a first time build, possibly a fold together wagon kit line the SSM 30T Goods Brake which can be assembled by gluing or solder would be a good starting point before moving on to a more complex kit such as a complete wagon such as SSM GNR 30T Brake or my MGWR Horse Box or Meat Van.

Although I started by assembling a SSM/TMD Midland Tank and a J15 when the kits were released in the early 80s , it took me another 10 years to achieve a reasonable level of skill and experience in loco kit building to assemble a reasonably presentable model. One of the advantages of working in etched brass or nickel silver, is that you can usually salvage and re-work a kit if you run into problems during the initial assembly or want to improve the finish of the model at a later date. 

If your determined to start with a loco as your first build consider O Gauge and one of Jim McGowan's Connisseur Models, they have a good reputation of being straightforward to build and produce a simple 'starter" loco kit  www.jimmcgeown.com.

It would be worth checking out the books referred to by Eoin and also considering scratchbuilding, as a teenager I tried building tin plate loco bodies with the metal salvaged from food and drinks tins and tried my hand at soldering before moving on to kits after I began working. To my mind some of the tin plate bodies looked reasonably ok, after several false starts my first working loco and pride and joy was an SLNCR 0-6-4T on a cut down Triang Princess chassis fitted with small Triang Jinty driving wheels.

In a way I am still learning and acquiring new tools over 40 years after my first attempts at kit building.

 

Unfortunately, you seem better placed than me to learn scratchbuilding at an early age- I'm fairly sure you know roughly what age I am and by extension that I'm probably lagging a little behind you in terms of progress over age. I do hope to pick up a bit soon as I might be getting a better modelling space, however I likely won't be able to get going in 7mm, so Jim McGowan's kits are off the table for a while still, but if I ever do get into O I will most definitely be looking at them.

 

13 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

I agree with all of the above.

I can't comment specifically on London Road Models kits as I haven't built one myself. You may get a better view on those over on RMweb. What I will say is that of the dozens of etched kits I've built over the years, some have been excellent, many are OK, but there are some truly terrible ones out there as well. Build up your skills with ones that people recommend as good.

Soldering is a key skill, and it's well worth learning about this from books or online tutorials - whatever format suits you best - and lots of practice. I would encourage you to learn to solder first, which you can do with any old offcuts of thin brass (I expect anyone into brass kits could give you a free pack of etch fret offcuts). Don't glue the first kit - soldering is far better and it's a skill you need to learn at the start and develop over time, rather than being scared of it.

The right iron and temperature, the right solder, the right flux, and cleanliness of the metal are all important. Get those right and it's easy! 

Different soldering jobs may call for different tools/solders etc, but for 99% of my etched kit building I use these:

25W temperature-controlled soldering iron with interchangeable bits, Carrs green flux, leaded 145 degree solder, and a fine brush for applying the flux.

 

While we're on tools, I gathered together the tools I've used for building the E class. I think I've got most of them here:

Not shown are a small vice, and an ultrasonic bath for cleaning up after each soldering session. Also various odd bits of wood etc.

As you progress with building your skills on etched kits, you will gradually build up your toolkit too. And your stocks of brass offcuts, wire, small nuts and bolts etc.

 

It's very rewarding to make a nice brass model. Start simple, gradually build up towards your dream loco.

 

Luckily enough I do get taught basic soldering in school (Applied Technology) and am expected to use it in basically any projects I do, although it is of course just wires, and using solder that already has flux in it- if that makes sense. It is all still a bit of a mystery to me, honestly.

11 hours ago, Galteemore said:

Jim McGeown, cited by Mayner, sold me my first kit. He’s a genius at writing friendly instructions which will teach you the basics, and has a how to manual on his website. Here’s the instructions for his O gauge starter loco. It will give you an idea of what’s involved. Brass is a great part of the hobby to get involved in, so do go for it. 0 Gauge Starter Loco pdf print off.pdf

Those instructions are actually quite encouraging. The entire process seems very much demystified and I'm even more enthusiastic to build something in brass now. Thanks for sharing.

10 hours ago, Tullygrainey said:

All the above is sound advice, especially the recommendation to start simply. Building any etched kit is challenging when you first attempt it. Be prepared to make mistakes and get things wrong but don't be discouraged. Hang in there and it will come good.  It's all part of the learning process and we all have failed projects in our repertoire (and in a bottom drawer).

It's difficult to generalise about London Road Models kits. As you can see from their website, the catalogue includes kits designed and originally marketed by many different people, some a considerable time ago. However, LRM has updated and improved them in line with developments along the way so you can be sure they are all of serviceable quality. The only LRM kit I built, a L&Y Barton 0-6-0 was well made and straightforward to build -  at least it would have been if I hadn't been trying to convert it into a Belfast and County Down loco.

Have a look at High Level Kits website. There are some very nice small engine kits there as well as chassis kits to fit under ready-to-run bodies. High Level's kits also have the best instructions I have ever seen. You can download these from the website to give you an idea of what's involved.

I'd also endorse Eoin's booklist above, especially the work of Iain Rice. It was his writing that inspired me to give kit-building a go. I suspect both are out of print but second-hand copies can be found - try Abebooks. 

As regards tools, an exhaustive list of 'essentials' would probably break the bank! For myself, I gradually built my tool set up over time, buying things when I found I needed them. For example, I only acquired a pillar drill when I began scratch-building. Having said all that, there are a few things you'll need from the get-go, a soldering iron being the obvious one. As Mol says above a 25 watt iron will do the job and I managed without a temperature controlled one until fairly recently. 

It's impossible to build an etched kit without a set of broaches for opening out holes and a few needle files for fettling and tidying up so I'd recommend those as essentials. In general, buy the best you can afford. 

Welcome to the community of modellers with burnt fingertips. It can be a frustrating activity but it's also hugely satisfying. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Alan

I have indeed burned my fingertips with both solder and soldering irons before and can assure you I will be aiming to avoid it.

10 hours ago, murrayec said:

This may also be helpful;-

 

I'll be sure to check it out, thanks.

9 hours ago, Northroader said:

One thing I found with the kits for something like a 4-4-0, is the number of small parts there are. You can get a few sheets of etched bits and you’ll find it can run into hundreds of small pieces. You can get an accurate model, but it can sorely try your patience working on things like brake work, which can become very fiddly. The smaller loco you pick the better, for an easy start experience.

That hadn't occured to me but does make a lot of sense. I do plan on starting with a wagon so that won't be too much of a problem off the bat, but I will keep it in mind.

6 hours ago, Colin R said:

One thing which comes to mind, and that is practice soldering before you start on a kit, the more you do the better you become  and a lot fewer burnt fingers to boot, and the different types of soldering will be helpful, ie Brass sheet is harder that say covering a wire in solder and so on

Here are a couple of useful sites to look at:-

https://www.instructables.com/How-to-solder/

 

https://www.clfinescale.co.uk/copy-of-c-l-product-diagrams

https://www.clfinescale.co.uk/solderingtechniques

 

hope this helps

 

Colin R

I'm sure it will indeed be very helpful. All look like well written sources from experienced authors.

6 hours ago, leslie10646 said:

Really excellent advice from Colin.

How many years of practise went into @Galteemore, @David Holman @Tullygrainey @Patrick Davey's efforts, to name a few?   Patrick especially soldiered on after "not quite right efforts" (I know because I sold him two of one of my kits, after he "practised" on the first one - now look at what he's doing!!!!

Not for nothing do we old people say "Practise makes Perfect"!!!!

Always a businessman- it's quite impressive how you manage to make such a convincing case for buying Provincial Wagons models at any chance you get. I can only guess you've had a while to practice- I know PW has been around for a while. I do probably need to buy one of your kits at this point, even if just to see if all the hype is true!

Back to the matter at hand, I would like to deeply and sincerely thank all of the talented, skilled, experienced and kind modellers who have chipped in to help get me going. I am sure your contributions will prove to be hugely important and would like to once again thank you.

Best Regards,

LNERW1.

[David Holman]

Amen to all the above!

We are all still learning, but those early stages are important. Success breeds confidence which is why buildings and scenery are easier that wagons, which are easier than coaches and are best before tackling a working loco.

 Some locos are easier than others, with maybe an inside cylinder 0-4-0T the most straightforward. Add another pair of axles and things ramp up a bit as the capacity for rods to bind increases, but an 0-6-0T is still a worthy starter. In 7mm scale, Jim McGowan's Connoisseur kits are hard to beat, though an Alphagraphix MGWR J26 is a great starter too. The chassis is a one piece etch, where you solder in the bearings before folding up the sides and frame spacers. You can have a rolling chassis within an hour or so - very good for morale!

 Avoid being tempted by a favourite loco as a first attempt. Anything with bogie or pony wheels, outside cylinders, let alone outside frames (sounds familiar), is a nightmare waiting to happen. However, by starting simple, building up your skills and knowledge, there is a lifetime of satisfaction ahead. Whatever their imperfections, they are your models, not something plucked from a shelf and a coat of paint covers a multitude of sins.

[LNERW1]

Ok, so given all the very helpful information given above, I'm now looking at starting on an SSM convertible wagon, product image shown here:

2 questions before I get one:

Should I get one? Is it a good kit for a beginner?

How do I get one? I can't work out how to order SSM models- no order page on the website, no other sources I can find. Add to that these wagons specifically have no listed price- the wheels cost €8 and that's all the website says. Do I have to purchase them in-person at a show? Or PM @Weshty? Help would be appreciated.

Also I am aware convertible wagons are likely well outside my era as I model 1963-67, but as it is supposed to be quite a dilapidated and, quite frankly, out-of-the-way line, I thought it could be entertaining to hammer home just how forgotten the line is.

Also, how lobg

[murrayec]

A good starter, it is white metal, slightly different process- 70 deg lead solder and one has to be careful with the iron as the white metal can disappear on you!

I suggest you buy his brass etch telephone box at the same time, that would start you off on etch brass also

You need to contact Des by email to order

I saw you note above about the cost of the books, I took a look and Iain Rice's books are available for around £22.00 on ABS books or Amazon- buy one at a time......

Eoin

[Galteemore]

You might also look at his Wickham Railcar. Great way to learn the basics of bending brass (golden rule is to bend, never crease). Will give you a result fairly quickly, which you can detail as much as you want. Only 27 euro too. 

[Colin R]

39 minutes ago, murrayec said:

A good starter, it is white metal, slightly different process- 70 deg lead solder and one has to be careful with the iron as the white metal can disappear on you!

I suggest you buy his brass etch telephone box at the same time, that would start you off on etch brass also

You need to contact Des by email to order

I saw you note above about the cost of the books, I took a look and Iain Rice's books are available for around £22.00 on ABS books or Amazon- buy one at a time......

Eoin

Also, it might be worth looking here for books and their costs:-

https://www.titfield.co.uk/index.htm

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_nkw=model+railway+modelling+books&_sacat=0&_from=R40&rt=nc&Genre=Art%20%26%20Culture&_dcat=261186

 

The second link is to second-hand books on eBay, so do have a look at some of them before you buy. Amazon does have a reasonable book section but don't expect to find AJ Hartley's book on fly fishing there. (You might need to be of a certain age to get this.) Also, be aware that Amazon runs several other web-based bookshops, so it is worth looking there as well.  

Now due to my own experience do you want books with loads of words or pretty pictures, the reason I say this is many older books tend to in my experience tell you how to do this and that and take a cat apart and put it back together with no harm and by the time you get to the end of the book, you have forgotten what it was all about or just more confused than you might have been before.

Current books tend to be more of this is how I have done it and let's look at the results in the following pictures. 

The third bit of advice buy only the tools you need now and buy the best you can afford, make sure you keep them in a toolbox when you are not using them.

Besides getting into modelling for the fun of it you can and will learn so many new skills, many of which are very basic engineering skills which sadly are not always taught at school or colleges this day and age. If you want to learn why and how you do something I can't recommend highly enough the following series of engineering books for you life long library.

https://www.teepublishing.co.uk/books/workshop-practice-series/

Good luck on your journey of railway modelling just remember you learn something new every day during your life

Regards

Colin Rainsbury

 

 

 

.

[Galteemore]

There’s also lots of excellent YouTube tutorials on kit building, soldering etc. 

[Andy Cundick]

London Road kits are on the whole well thought out kits though not all of them are designed by them ,the North British R Classes for instance were done originally by Ian Rice (2 Built 1 to go).Its worth bearing in mind that they Nickel Silver rather than brass and to my mind makes them more user friendly.  If you want to have go at an etched loco i would suggest you start with an 060T,My own preference for construction is a 40w iron and 180 cored solder and make sure the brass is clean (glass fibre brush time).Its basically down to practise like a simple wagon kit to start with you can use the srcap etch from the kit to practise on first.Bear in mind the great thing with soldered construction is that if you mess it up you can easily undo it and try again.Andy.

[Horsetan]

Just beware that ambition can get the better of you....

[Tullygrainey]

5 hours ago, LNERW1 said:

Ok, so given all the very helpful information given above, I'm now looking at starting on an SSM convertible wagon, product image shown here:

2 questions before I get one:

Should I get one? Is it a good kit for a beginner?

How do I get one? I can't work out how to order SSM models- no order page on the website, no other sources I can find. Add to that these wagons specifically have no listed price- the wheels cost €8 and that's all the website says. Do I have to purchase them in-person at a show? Or PM @Weshty? Help would be appreciated.

Also I am aware convertible wagons are likely well outside my era as I model 1963-67, but as it is supposed to be quite a dilapidated and, quite frankly, out-of-the-way line, I thought it could be entertaining to hammer home just how forgotten the line is.

Also, how lobg

White metal kits are pretty challenging to build so I'd advise caution. As Eoin says above, you need low melting point solder and it's very easy to melt the metal while trying to solder it. Even with a temperature controlled soldering iron, I've managed to vaporise white metal parts all too often. Brass and nickel silver are a good deal more forgiving and, to echo Andy's comments above, you can usually undo and redo joints without much damage to the metal itself.

[David Holman]

5 minute epoxy for me on whitemetal.

[murrayec]

One of the tricks with soldering white metal is to use phosphoric/water flux, douse the area to be soldered with the flux, load the iron with 70deg solder and just stick the iron tip into the flux and in a millisecond when the heat gets into the metal the solder will flood the join. No touching the metal just the flux....

Eoin

[Mol_PMB]

Whitemetal soldering is a different art. 
For me, extreme cleanliness and red flux. Iron set to 200C (!) with 70C solder and be VERY quick - the solder will flow like water and fill the joint. But this takes some bravery…

[Mike 84C]

I agree with all the above advice but my two cents worth would be, have a good idea of how a steam loco works and what all the different things that hang underneath and are bolted on top do. i'm thinking injectors, ejectors, vacuum bags, brake hangers. All those little details that you need to pick up on that will lift your model to something really special.

  You say several times your a young person and the above may be doing you a disservice.  I hope you have already hoovered all this stuff up, I expect the lads will point you in the direction of another buying spree! Good luck enjoy the hobby and please post your results.

[David Holman]

Absolutely. In this age of seemingly almost everything available ready to run, it is great to hear of someone keen to expand their skills in making stuff.

[Mayner]

21 hours ago, LNERW1 said:

Ok, so given all the very helpful information given above, I'm now looking at starting on an SSM convertible wagon, product image shown here:

2 questions before I get one:

Should I get one? Is it a good kit for a beginner?

How do I get one? I can't work out how to order SSM models- no order page on the website, no other sources I can find. Add to that these wagons specifically have no listed price- the wheels cost €8 and that's all the website says. Do I have to purchase them in-person at a show? Or PM @Weshty? Help would be appreciated.

Also I am aware convertible wagons are likely well outside my era as I model 1963-67, but as it is supposed to be quite a dilapidated and, quite frankly, out-of-the-way line, I thought it could be entertaining to hammer home just how forgotten the line is.

Also, how lobg

 

Here is one I assembled earlier (years ago!) & a set of instructions.

 

Mixture of whitemetal castings, plasticard and brass w-Irons. The instructions recommends quick setting glue such as 5minute epoxy or superglue.

Challenging bit may be sourcing suitable axles as the W Irons are designed for 21mm gauge which uses an axle that 2mm longer than standard for OO gauge, though I can sort you out with suitable wheels and axles if you decide to go ahead.

The brass W Iron arrangement with one axle rocking (compensated) was a fairly common arrangement with scratch and kit built wagon.

I generally solder whitemetal kits using a special 'temperature controlled" soldering iron (expensive) with 100º solder & phosphoric acid flux not really practical or wroth while for assembling one kit.

 Age experience and skill.

I first tried my hand at scratchbuilding using plasticard when I was around 14-15 and later moved on to tin scrounged from food tins, usually on second hand Triang chassis none of these early efforts were exactly successful. I started my first reasonably successful efforts at model making in my late teens after I began working after finishing secondary school including a reasonably successful "Irish' N gauge layout before returning to 4mm and attempting to model in 21mm gauge in my Mid-20s. I assembled my first Etched Brass loco kit a TMD/SSM Midland Tank in the Mid-80s but it took me approx 8 years to become reasonably proficient in kit/scratch building.

Like training for a profession or "serving your time" as a trade its takes time to become reasonably proficient in model making.