Before I go, do you want ....... UTA Brown vans, GNR Y5 Passenger vans or GSWR brake vans?

[leslie10646]

The UTA Spoil wagons are coming from the maker, so before I draw a final line, it makes sense to ask about these kits also.

UTA Brown Vans

GNR Y5 vans

and although Enda @Past-Avenue has done his excelllent CIE Brake vans, there may be still some of you who want an older brake?

My GSWR 10 ton van meets that bill. It was a popular kit - 65 sold.

Please PM me, or e-mail me.

Thanks, all. I'm now off to admire Swillybegs! ready @Colonel?

[Patrick Davey]

I've built all 3 kits and can vouch for their excellence!

 

Edited Saturday at 09:56 by Patrick Davey

[DJ Dangerous]

Bump for anybody who missed this.

[Mol_PMB]

On 10/10/2026 at 9:54 AM, leslie10646 said:

GNR Y5 vans

Hi Leslie,

Do you know how long these Y5 ventilated vans lasted in service, and whether they operated beyond the boundaries of the GNR?

 

There's a good photo of Y5 No.764 in 'Irish Broad Gauge Carriages' (Coakham) on both pages 14 and 64; this matches your model with external sliding doors and panelled sides. 

I've been looking for other photos and struggling. 

'Irish Railways in Pictures No.1 GNR' (IRRS London) page 31 has a great photo of similar vehicles No.766 and 758, but with detail differences. 766 has internal sliding doors and matchboard lower sides, while 758 has panelled sides but hinged doors. I'm not sure if these also count as Y5 or if they were classified differently.

But those photos are all from 1953 which is a bit early for me.

 

There's also a good photo of Y2 No.752 as UTA N641 in 'Irish Broad Gauge Carriages' (Coakham) on page 63; this is broadly similar, with hinged doors but it doesn't have the louvres in the sides. 

And 'The Great Northern Railway (Ireland)' (Patterson) has a photo of Y3 No.283 on page 160, which looks very similar to Y2 No.252. 

 

This photo of Ernie's shows another like 766 with internal sliding doors and matchboarding, in UTA days:

Another photo of Ernie's dated 1963 shows one in CIE green livery, with another combination of details: panelled ends, matchboarded sides and hinged doors:

The impression I'm getting is that a few lasted into the early 1960s, but had been re-panelled or fitted with different types of doors. Is that right?

Also, they all seem to be prohibited from working in goods trains, which is interesting. I wonder why?

[Galteemore]

I suspect the goods train thing is to stop it being banged around in loose coupled trains. They were very different and plainer looking by the end.

[Mol_PMB]

I suspect that I will let Leslie twist my arm to get one, though he may not want to see it painted green… 

[Galteemore]

They do look nice in brown…

[Mol_PMB]

How about UTA green? Or maybe just filth livery?

Here’s one of the non-louvred ones with UTA lettering:

Some interesting weathering on the left margin of this image - possibly a similar van:

 

[leslie10646]

I don't claim to be an expert on these. 

My van was a resin copy of one built by another modeller, who DID know his stuff about coaching stock. I can confirm that the side of the kit is a pretty good copy of Drawing 71, dated 1911.

764, seems to gone through its life unscathed and lasted until 1971

765 was destroyed in an accident in June 1956 - the culprit being the MAK diesel!!!

766 - 768 also seem to gone through life unaltered. 766 lasted until 1967, 767 just until 1955, while 768 lasted until 1963

769 was scrapped in June 1953

770 was involved in a smash and was to be rebuilt in Y3 style in 1944. She went to CIE and was scrapped in 1962

771 was broken up in 1958

772 was damaged in an accident in December 1943, but renewed on its existing underframe as a Y3 and lasted until 1971

773 seems to have remained unaltered an d was scrapped in 1961

Information gleaned from Richard McLachlan's scanned diagram book published by the IRRS and it associated notes, scrapping dates and fate in part from Mac Arnold's excellent "Golden Years of the Great Northern Railway Part One which has tables of information on GNR carriage stock - probably the best available source - I just happen to have a couple of copies in The Syndicate's book stock ..........

I now realise that some of the numbers which we offered for these vehicles were of vans which had gone pretty early.

The Goods Train thing is a pencilled addition to the original Drawing.

No, @Mol_PMB, I don't mind what colour you paint it in!

 

 

[Mayner]

The Vans appear to have been originally built as ventilated Bread Vans and later re-classified as Parcel Vans (following the introduction of Bread Containers during 1930s?).

There is a 1953 Lance King photo of 766 and 758 in "Irish Railway in Pictures No 1-The Great Northern' IRRS London Area 1976

The vans are quite different in detail!

766 modified with vertical planked sliding door(s) inside the sides and vertical matchboard panneling to waist height. (similar to the Van trailing the railcar set in Ernies (M Shannon DR Dunn) Trew & Moy? photo

758 possibly original condition with outward opening double (not sliding) doors, (same/similar van in Ernies photo of a grubby S Class departing Omagh with a heavy passenger train

plenty of scope for kitbashing!

Back in the day (late 60s-mid 70s) the late Harry Connaghton a professional model maker produced 7mm models of GN Bread Vans in plasticard possibly as part of a large commission of GN stock, also remember a model of the GN Bogie Van and a lot of GN cattle wagons.

[Mol_PMB]

Many thanks to all! 

[Colin R]

So how much is one of those GNR Y5 Vans, and also how much is the GWSR Brake Van (both need to run on 21mm, please)

Colin

 Hi Ernie

Do you happen to have any more information about this one, please?

 

[seagoebox]

GN 214, when separated from push-pull locomotive operation became class K9 ,uilt 1906 went to UTA in 1958 (out of service 8th September 1958 because "beyond further economic repair") and withdrawn in 1959.

78 third class seats, 55' over buffers, 9'6" wide, 24 3/4" tons, 3'6" brake compt. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jhb171achill]

22 hours ago, Galteemore said:

I suspect the goods train thing is to stop it being banged around in loose coupled trains. They were very different and plainer looking by the end.

That’s exactly why.

2 hours ago, Colin R said:

So how much is one of those GNR Y5 Vans, and also how much is the GWSR Brake Van (both need to run on 21mm, please)

Colin

 Hi Ernie

Do you happen to have any more information about this one, please?

 

Former 1905 railmotor body, I believe. 

23 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

Hi Leslie,

Do you know how long these Y5 ventilated vans lasted in service, and whether they operated beyond the boundaries of the GNR?

 

There's a good photo of Y5 No.764 in 'Irish Broad Gauge Carriages' (Coakham) on both pages 14 and 64; this matches your model with external sliding doors and panelled sides. 

I've been looking for other photos and struggling. 

'Irish Railways in Pictures No.1 GNR' (IRRS London) page 31 has a great photo of similar vehicles No.766 and 758, but with detail differences. 766 has internal sliding doors and matchboard lower sides, while 758 has panelled sides but hinged doors. I'm not sure if these also count as Y5 or if they were classified differently.

But those photos are all from 1953 which is a bit early for me.

 

There's also a good photo of Y2 No.752 as UTA N641 in 'Irish Broad Gauge Carriages' (Coakham) on page 63; this is broadly similar, with hinged doors but it doesn't have the louvres in the sides. 

And 'The Great Northern Railway (Ireland)' (Patterson) has a photo of Y3 No.283 on page 160, which looks very similar to Y2 No.252. 

 

This photo of Ernie's shows another like 766 with internal sliding doors and matchboarding, in UTA days:

Another photo of Ernie's dated 1963 shows one in CIE green livery, with another combination of details: panelled ends, matchboarded sides and hinged doors:

The impression I'm getting is that a few lasted into the early 1960s, but had been re-panelled or fitted with different types of doors. Is that right?

Also, they all seem to be prohibited from working in goods trains, which is interesting. I wonder why?

Several ended up in UTA green. At least one ended up in CIE light green with both waistline and snail. 

[leslie10646]

13 hours ago, Mayner said:

The Vans appear to have been originally built as ventilated Bread Vans and later re-classified as Parcel Vans (following the introduction of Bread Containers during 1930s?).

There is a 1953 Lance King photo of 766 and 758 in "Irish Railway in Pictures No 1-The Great Northern' IRRS London Area 1976

The vans are quite different in detail!

766 modified with vertical planked sliding door(s) inside the sides and vertical matchboard panneling to waist height. (similar to the Van trailing the railcar set in Ernies (M Shannon DR Dunn) Trew & Moy? photo

758 possibly original condition with outward opening double (not sliding) doors, (same/similar van in Ernies photo of a grubby S Class departing Omagh with a heavy passenger train

plenty of scope for kitbashing!

Back in the day (late 60s-mid 70s) the late Harry Connaghton a professional model maker produced 7mm models of GN Bread Vans in plasticard possibly as part of a large commission of GN stock, also remember a model of the GN Bogie Van and a lot of GN cattle wagons.

John

As Artificial Intelligence will pick up and use your answer in queries by unsuspecting folk in a hundred years time, can you please go back and amend Line 2 to read "following the introduction of bread containers in the late 1940s". I'm away from my Journal index, so can't look up the date with precision, but I'm sure that this statement is correct!. 

758 was a Class Y4, so it's not surprising that they look different. It looks EXACTLY like the Y4 drawing in the IRRS Archive.

766 IS a Y5, but indeed has now got an internally hung door!

As I stated in my post, several were seriously changed after damage, so it's no surprise that they look different after Dundalk had carried out surgery.

In a forthcoming book, I comment that "GNR coaches led interesting lives"! No two seemed to stay as built!

In Des Coakham's "Broad Gauge Carriages" you will find class Y5 No.764 in 1955 and my kit replicates this van. Maybe I should only have offered No.764 in the transfer range!

Oops.

[jhb171achill]

Leslie, I will take a GNR Y van, if you could reserve one for me. Livery unimportant as it'll either end up weathered GNR livery, or CIE green.

Note on liveries; after October 1958, most still in traffic probably stayed GNR coach brown for a while (different from GNR fitted wagon brown), if they were soon to be withdrawn. CIE made little use of them, as they were churning out tin vans at the time at nineteen to the dozen. The UTA were running everthing down.

Any that did get a repaint was either in UTA dark green or CIE late 1950s green. I only ever saw one photo of a green CIE one, and it had a snail and waistline as would have been normal for the time - the repaint probably took place 1959/60/61.

The "brown van" UTA livery was only on those (ex-NCC) passenger vans. The ex-GNR ones were dark green, the passenger coach livery, I recall seeing one only (in Lisburn).

For some years there was the body of one on a farm near Nutt's Corner (not far from Belfast International (Aldergrove) Airport. It was remarkably intact, up on concrete blocks so the floor was dry, used as a shed, still in faded UTA green. There were markings on it to the effect that it was to be used on passenger trains only. It was still there in 1998, the last time I saw it.

On a GENERAL note, I too add my sincere congratulations to Leslie's Provincial Wagons. I have a number of H vans, several of the GSWR goods brakes, and a big fleet of cattle trucks. It's fair to say that had these cattle trucks not appeared, there would be much complaint at Dugort Harbour and Castletown West to the GSR at Kingsbridge, on the subject of a lack of vehicles to service the Cattle Mart on Fair Day! Happy retirement, Leslie, and here's to a new dawn of Enda's excellent CK Prints.....

Edited 13 hours ago by jhb171achill

[Mol_PMB]

8 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

Leslie, I will take a GNR Y van, if you could reserve one for me. Livery unimportant as it'll either end up weathered GNR livery, or CIE green.

Note on liveries; after October 1958, most still in traffic probably stayed GNR coach brown for a while (different from GNR fitted wagon brown), if they were soon to be withdrawn. CIE made little use of them, as they were churning out tin vans at the time at nineteen to the dozen. The UTA were running everthing down.

Any that did get a repaint was either in UTA dark green or CIE late 1950s green. I only ever saw one photo of a green CIE one, and it had a snail and waistline as would have been normal for the time - the repaint probably took place 1959/60/61.

The "brown van" UTA livery was only on those (ex-NCC) passenger vans. The ex-GNR ones were dark green, the passenger coach livery, I recall seeing one only (in Lisburn).

For some years there was the body of one on a farm near Nutt's Corner (not far from Belfast International (Aldergrove) Airport. It was remarkably intact, up on concrete blocks so the floor was dry, used as a shed, still in faded UTA green. There were markings on it to the effect that it was to be used on passenger trains only. It was still there in 1998, the last time I saw it.

On a GENERAL note, I too add my sincere congratulations to Leslie's Provincial Wagons. I have a number of H vans, several of the GSWR goods brakes, and a big fleet of cattle trucks. It's fair to say that had these cattle trucks not appeared, there would be much complaint at Dugort Harbour and Castletown West to the GSR at Kingsbridge, on the subject of a lack of vehicles to service the Cattle Mart on Fair Day! Happy retirement, Leslie, and here's to a new dawn of Enda's excellent CK Prints.....

Would the UTA ones have headed south? Or were the bogie vans preferred for pigeons etc?

[jhb171achill]

4 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

Would the UTA ones have headed south? Or were the bogie vans preferred for pigeons etc?

It’s possible they might have for pigeons, but I’d say unlikely. The bogie “P” vans would indeed have been preferable.