Crowd funded models

[tuby]

Evrybody both proposers and potential purchasers needs to be carefull here. I model Australian prototype and crowd funding is big over there given the small size of the market.There have been problems with delivery times which are seldom met, I am waiting nearly 4 years for delivery of a loco which I prepaid. Some of the bigger operators have influence but smaller less established ones can be left high and dry by the Chinese who seem to be all over the place at the moment. If the proposers place their order in say January 2015 it is extremely unlikely the model will be available until sometime in 2016. Just saying everybody should go into this with their eyes wide open.

[Blaine]

Evrybody both proposers and potential purchasers needs to be carefull here. I model Australian prototype and crowd funding is big over there given the small size of the market.There have been problems with delivery times which are seldom met, I am waiting nearly 4 years for delivery of a loco which I prepaid. Some of the bigger operators have influence but smaller less established ones can be left high and dry by the Chinese who seem to be all over the place at the moment. If the proposers place their order in say January 2015 it is extremely unlikely the model will be available until sometime in 2016. Just saying everybody should go into this with their eyes wide open.

 

Unless you can stump up a 7 figure sum it wont happen overnight. You cant rush the development as it will result in mistakes. If it has a poor mechanism,poor electrics it wont go down well, never mind how it looks or its decoration

 

Ive been closely watching several crowd funding campaigns, including those that have failed. Like everything there appears to be an initial flurry but it levels out and then is slower to the end or makes it. November is Warley time so that is a good time to launch a UK outline project as everyone is almost together in the same hall. The disadvantage is that its close to Christmas so people may hold back and then be skint in January

 

http://www.ngaugependolino.com/ is currently at 30% with just under 8 weeks to go. Will be interesting to see what comes of this

[Broithe]

Interesting article here - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29992974 - that suggests that a single new brick design for Lego costs around €40,000 to get into production. It's not directly comparable, of course, the moulds are intended for much longer runs, but the designs will be much simpler.

[BosKonay]

Generally you are looking at €30 - €50k for a wagon or coach before you hit production costs...

[WRENNEIRE]

So just for the dye, no other cost involved, on a run of 10,000 wagons it would cost €4-€5 per wagon just to recoup this cost

[Noel]

Poll created here

 

http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/showthread.php/3767-Would-you-prepay-for-a-model?p=59117

 

Hi BK. Would it be useful to put up another poll of single choice questions offering folks the choice of their preferred model for a pre-funded production run? (Eg 121, A class, C class, steam 800, steam jeep, one or two popular freight wagons, one or two coaches (laminate, Park Royal). Noel

[Glenderg]

Another poll wouldn't add anything further to the debate.

 

We know the 121 and the A Class are the crowd pleasers loco wise. Box that off and leave it be. The other side is 4 wheeled freight wagons, and I think that could be described as cement bubbles, double beets, and ballast wagons.

 

From my dealings with other manufacturers, small and tiny, every coach type from the mid 70's up until 2014 will be taken care of in kit form by the end of 2015.

 

Richie

[Noel]

Another poll wouldn't add anything further to the debate.

 

We know the 121 and the A Class are the crowd pleasers loco wise. Box that off and leave it be. The other side is 4 wheeled freight wagons, and I think that could be described as cement bubbles, double beets, and ballast wagons.

 

From my dealings with other manufacturers, small and tiny, every coach type from the mid 70's up until 2014 will be taken care of in kit form by the end of 2015.

 

Richie

 

Hi Richie

 

Yes but would it not be of value to know what specific model the project might be, and then guage how many would fund that preferred model. From the two threads the 121 and A class seem the clear front runners, but if it was only one or the other, how many who have already voted yes, would still vote yes if their no 1 pref was not the chosen project. A survey monkey poll might reveal some specifics.

 

Suggested possible questions: (please folks no need to answer these, just sample Qs)

1 what is your preferred model: from a list

2 what is your preferred livery: Choice of three

3 how much would you pre-pay for it: list of three possible costs (lower, mid, upper)

4 how many would you be likely to pre-order?

5 how many in total are you likely to buy in next 5 years?

6 how long would you be prepared to wait for delivery? (Choice of thee times scales, eg 12m, 18m, 24m)

 

Please forgive, not quite sure I understand about the coaches comment. Are most CIE coaches running post 1975 not already available as quality RTR stock, even if some stocks currently sold out but likely to be re-run in future (eg Cravens, mk2 and mk3, or Bachman/Hornby re-sprays). I thought the deficit in affordable but high quality RTR coaches was 1950s to 1975, currently only available as kits or rather expensive RTR specialist collectors items. Most seem reasonable to good quality but not of the same high quality as say MM cravens or Bachmann BR outline coaches that sell below €40-50 per RTR coach. Have I got the wrong end of the stick? Are there not significantly more folks interested in RTR than kits, who have neither the time, patience nor skills to build a kit remotely close to RTR standards?

 

Noel

 

Ps. Btw it was nice to meet you at the MRSI show

[Blaine]

Hi Richie

 

Yes but would it not be of value to know what specific model the project might be, and then guage how many would fund that preferred model. From the two threads the 121 and A class seem the clear front runners, but if it was only one or the other, how many who have already voted yes, would still vote yes if their no 1 pref was not the chosen project. A survey monkey poll might reveal some specifics.

 

Suggested possible questions: (please folks no need to answer these, just sample Qs)

1 what is your preferred model: from a list

2 what is your preferred livery: Choice of three

3 how much would you pre-pay for it: list of three possible costs (lower, mid, upper)

4 how many would you be likely to pre-order?

5 how many in total are you likely to buy in next 5 years?

6 how long would you be prepared to wait for delivery? (Choice of thee times scales, eg 12m, 18m, 24m)

 

Please forgive, not quite sure I understand about the coaches comment. Are most CIE coaches running post 1975 not already available as quality RTR stock, even if some stocks currently sold out but likely to be re-run in future (eg Cravens, mk2 and mk3, or Bachman/Hornby re-sprays). I thought the deficit in affordable but high quality RTR coaches was 1950s to 1975, currently only available as kits or rather expensive RTR specialist collectors items. Most seem reasonable to good quality but not of the same high quality as say MM cravens or Bachmann BR outline coaches that sell below €40-50 per RTR coach. Have I got the wrong end of the stick? Are there not significantly more folks interested in RTR than kits, who have neither the time, patience nor skills to build a kit remotely close to RTR standards?

 

Noel

 

 

Need more complications then, do we??? All well and good writing things down, but will it make more than you reach for their credit cards?

 

I would dearly love to see a RTR high detail model of the 2 1/2 gauge locomotive that ran between Ballyboughan and Ballygobackwards between August 1927 and February 1931. This model has been over looked I feel and would be a popular choice among modellers given its well known popularity........

[Noel]

Sorry don't understand

[Blaine]

....

Edited November 27, 2014 by Blaine

[Warbonnet]

Hi Richie

 

Yes but would it not be of value to know what specific model the project might be, and then guage how many would fund that preferred model. From the two threads the 121 and A class seem the clear front runners, but if it was only one or the other, how many who have already voted yes, would still vote yes if their no 1 pref was not the chosen project. A survey monkey poll might reveal some specifics.

 

Suggested possible questions: (please folks no need to answer these, just sample Qs)

1 what is your preferred model: from a list

2 what is your preferred livery: Choice of three

3 how much would you pre-pay for it: list of three possible costs (lower, mid, upper)

4 how many would you be likely to pre-order?

5 how many in total are you likely to buy in next 5 years?

6 how long would you be prepared to wait for delivery? (Choice of thee times scales, eg 12m, 18m, 24m)

 

Please forgive, not quite sure I understand about the coaches comment. Are most CIE coaches running post 1975 not already available as quality RTR stock, even if some stocks currently sold out but likely to be re-run in future (eg Cravens, mk2 and mk3, or Bachman/Hornby re-sprays). I thought the deficit in affordable but high quality RTR coaches was 1950s to 1975, currently only available as kits or rather expensive RTR specialist collectors items. Most seem reasonable to good quality but not of the same high quality as say MM cravens or Bachmann BR outline coaches that sell below €40-50 per RTR coach. Have I got the wrong end of the stick? Are there not significantly more folks interested in RTR than kits, who have neither the time, patience nor skills to build a kit remotely close to RTR standards?

 

Noel

 

Ps. Btw it was nice to meet you at the MRSI show

 

It's something we may consider doing in the coming weeks. However, people did post their preferences in this thread it's apparent what would be popular choices for models if someone was to bite the bullet and take things further.

[RedRich]

I think the poll that was open was a good sound board and gave good indications of what people would like to see. The kind of money that is involved when added to the small amount of folks that would participate is way to high for most of us. I can't see a project like this ever getting off the ground, the market is too small. You sound very enthusiastic about the idea of such a project taking place Noel and more power to you, but I just can't see it happening.

 

Rich,

[Glenderg]

I thought the deficit in affordable but high quality RTR coaches was 1950s to 1975, currently only available as kits or rather expensive RTR specialist collectors items.

 

There is no deficit in 1950's coaches, because there is no demand for Bredin MK1 or the like. Let's close that one right away. Laminates/Bredin MK2 are however ->

 

Are most CIE coaches running post 1975 not already available as quality RTR stock, even if some stocks currently sold out but likely to be re-run in future (eg Cravens, mk2 and mk3, or Bachman/Hornby re-sprays).

 

Park Royals are available RTR from IFM, Kit form from Worsely Works. K series GNR coaches are available from SSM. Laminates/Bredin MKII's and their variants are being tackled by Mayner of this parish, and others. The MK2's and MK3's are catered for in RTR and RTR resprays. As is the Enterprise stock. The MKIV stock will be online this time next year I believe, in either kit or RTR format. The CAD for the 22k is complete, awaiting improvements in 3D printing etc. Not me who's producing it either, I just happen to know the man behind the counter.

 

Are there not significantly more folks interested in RTR than kits, who have neither the time, patience nor skills to build a kit remotely close to RTR standards?

 

Essentially, all the coaching requirements will be catered for by mid 2015, and there are kit builders out there who can get your stock up to the MM standard, if it's a respray or a kit build. R

[rebelred]

Can I ask who will be behind the Mark IV / 22k models or is it still classified?? Great news that someone is tackling them looking forward to seeing how they turn out

[Noel]

There is no deficit in 1950's coaches, because there is no demand for Bredin MK1 or the like. Let's close that one right away. Laminates/Bredin MK2 are however ->

 

 

 

Park Royals are available RTR from IFM, Kit form from Worsely Works. K series GNR coaches are available from SSM. Laminates/Bredin MKII's and their variants are being tackled by Mayner of this parish, and others. The MK2's and MK3's are catered for in RTR and RTR resprays. As is the Enterprise stock. The MKIV stock will be online this time next year I believe, in either kit or RTR format. The CAD for the 22k is complete, awaiting improvements in 3D printing etc. Not me who's producing it either, I just happen to know the man behind the counter.

 

 

 

Essentially, all the coaching requirements will be catered for by mid 2015, and there are kit builders out there who can get your stock up to the MM standard, if it's a respray or a kit build. R

 

Thanks Richie for replying so comprehensively. Noel

[Blaine]

Sorry don't understand

 

And your the expert?

[WRENNEIRE]

How to win friends and influence people

[Warbonnet]

And your the expert?

 

That's enough Ed, let's leave it there. We may revisit this topic in the coming weeks regarding a vote. If people want to take this data on further you can contact mods via PM.