Question re CIE Coaching Stock ( Mk2A etc)

[Junctionmad]

I have two questions that still bug me

 

When did the 2nd hand Mk2A coaches get put into service, and where did they run, are there any photos of them in super train livery ( did I understand correctly they had bright window frames)

 

 

 

Can Anyone confirm what ran behind NON-TL cravens and Park royals to provide the steam heat only ( this should have been around 1978-81)

 

 

thanks

 

Dave

[jhb171achill]

Dave - the last 4 and 6 wheel vans disappeared from passenger service in the late 70s. So, it's BR and Dutch vans after that.

 

I don't remember seeing silver window frames on the mk2 ab's, but I didn't see them very often.

[Dhu Varren]

I have two questions that still bug me

 

When did the 2nd hand Mk2A coaches get put into service, and where did they run, are there any photos of them in super train livery ( did I understand correctly they had bright window frames)

 

 

These coaches were put into service around 1990/91. I have not seen any pictures of them with bright window frames, but anything is possible. They did start off with orange roofs which were later changed to black. I suspect they were used all over the system, as I have seen pictures of them in Belfast, and on the lines out of Heuston.

[Glenderg]

Don't know my MK2 a's from my f's, but here's some photos of em in supertrain. or Superstandard as I believe they were known as???

 

 

 

[jhb171achill]

I thought you meant the ex-BR ones....

[rebelred]

Mark 2As are the airbrake coaches ( Bachmann produced models of them) The ones in the photos are the Mark 2 vacuum brake coaches. They both poped up all over the system throughout their lifespan. The Mark2a used to come in to Cork on a Sunday service towards the end of their lifespan before they were axed. Might have been 2004???

[Dhu Varren]

The secondhand coaches referred to by Junctionmad were a mixture of Mk2, 2a & 2b bought secondhand from BR in 1989/90. The coaches in Glenderg's pictures are the Mk2d coaches supplied new to CIE in the early 1970s.

[Noel]

The secondhand coaches referred to by Junctionmad were a mixture of Mk2, 2a & 2b bought secondhand from BR in 1989/90. The coaches in Glenderg's pictures are the Mk2d coaches supplied new to CIE in the early 1970s.

 

That makes sense. I thought the 2a and 2b's had small opening window panels above the main window as they were not aircon.

[Junctionmad]

Yes all these ( fine ) pics are Mk2Ds

 

Anyone got any of the Mk2a , I believe they were all 2a's except the buffet which was 2B

 

numbers 4101- 4114 and 2B, 4401 , 4402

[craven1508]

great pics loved the mark 2,s they were so comfortible.

[Junctionmad]

anyone got any interior pictures of the non-suburban park royals by the way

 

Still can't find anything on the CIE mk 2A

 

ALso , since they were air braked, didi that mean they could only run with a selected set of air GM's. I know they were all fitted with air, but weren't only a few actually commissioned

 

thanks

[Junctionmad]

Dave - the last 4 and 6 wheel vans disappeared from passenger service in the late 70s. So, it's BR and Dutch vans after that.

 

I don't remember seeing silver window frames on the mk2 ab's, but I didn't see them very often.

 

Hmm I used to travel Limerick to Waterford , 1978-82, ( more during 78-80)I clearly remember travelling in the Park Royals ( with the 3 + 2 seating) ( or were these Laminates ) , and they were dynamo lit. I can't ember if the steam heating was 4/6 wheel or Bogie, maybe it was just a "dutch" with no generator running ?

[Junctionmad]

 

 

Heres a typically Waterfrd Limericlk train , parkroyals, is that a Mk1 EGV at the back or something else

Edited November 28, 2014 by Junctionmad

[Dhu Varren]

Secondhand Mk2s as follows. All converted to Open Standard except 4401 & 4402 which were Buffet Open Standard.

4101, 4102, 4110 Mk 2a Ex BR TSO

4103 to 4107 Mk2c Ex BR FO

4108 Mk 2 Ex BR SO

4109 Mk 2b Ex BR FK

4112 Mk 2c Ex BR FK

4113, 4114 Mk 2a Ex BR FK

4401, 4402 Mk 2b Ex BR FK

All were air braked with different electric heating to other coaches, and could not run in service with any other type of coach. Three Dutch vans were converted to run with these ex BR coaches.

Pictures of some of these coaches can be found on the site below.

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/ie/car/IE/pix.html

[hurricanemk1c]

As far as I know (and it's a technicality) CIÉ never had any Mark 2A's - only Iarnród Éireann did. Prehaps that might help your search. Mark 2 details that were bought from BR:

 

Open Second Mark 2/2A (64S, 2 Lav, 31 ton 17 cwt)

4101 (5428) - AD2A

4102 (5411) - AD2A

4108 (5252) - AD2Z (48-seater originally)

4110 (5306) - AD2A

 

 

Open Second Mark 2C (54S, 2 Lav, 32 ton 16 cwt). All AD2C

4103 (6406)

4104 (6405)

4105 (6401)

4106 (6413)

4107 (6403)

 

 

Open Second Mark 2A (54S, 2 Lav, 32 ton 16 cwt)

4113 (19469) - AA2A (Built as Corridor First, then Corridor Second)

4114 (13471) - AA1A (Built as Corridor First)

 

 

Open Second Mark 2B (42S, 2 Lav, 33 ton)

4109 (19512) - AA2B (Built as Corridor Second)

 

 

Open Second Mark 2C (52S, 2 Lav, 33 ton 9 cwt). Built as Corridor Seconds (AA2C)

4111 (19521)

4112 (19553)

 

 

Buffet Open Second Mark 2B (36S, 1 Lav, 35 ton 10 cwt). Built as Corridor Seconds (AA2B)

4401 (19489)

4402 (19497).

 

 

All purchased in 1990 from Vic Berry Scrapyard, Leicestershire. As far as I know, they were on 'secondary' services to places like Galway, Westport and Waterford. Believe they were withdrawn between 2003-2005. 4111 damaged by fire and scrapped 1992

 

Regards,

Kieran

[Junctionmad]

 

I believe these coaches are Mk 2A, the cravens didn't carry the stripes round the sides and also the width is the same as the Mk1 generator

 

 

edit nope , I think Dhu Varren has it right, and these are cravens, the foot boards give to away

Edited November 28, 2014 by Junctionmad

[DiveController]

I do not want to get too off thread here but since it was brought up above, can someone tell me what is the difference between a standard and a super standard? Does this refer to the physical make up of a coach or livery as I thought was maybe suggested earlier in the thread?

Some nice shots of Kent station there, Glenderg!

Edited November 28, 2014 by DiveController

[josefstadt]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]16049[/ATTACH]

 

I believe these coaches are Mk 2A, the cravens didn't carry the stripes round the sides and also the width is the same as the Mk1 generator

 

 

edit nope , I think Dhu Varren has it right, and these are cravens, the foot boards give to away

 

Definitely Cravens. The Mk2 air braked stock never ran with the vacuum braked ex-BR GSVS, only the converted Dutch Vans which were air braked.

[Dhu Varren]

 

I believe these coaches are Mk 2A, the cravens didn't carry the stripes round the sides and also the width is the same as the Mk1 generator

 

 

edit nope , I think Dhu Varren has it right, and these are cravens, the foot boards give to away

 

The big giveaway is the Mk 1 Generator Van. The secondhand Mk 2s could only work with the rebuilt Dutch Vans, due to their oddball heating system.

[RedRich]

Definitely Cravens in that pic. The roofs, water filler pipes are a giveaway as is the tumble dome, and the double white stripes did wrap around the end. I do remember seeing a pic of a Vic Berry MK11 in Inchicore in the IR livery and the windows were picked out in silver. Don't know who long they stayed like that. I can't ever recall seeing them in the IE livery with orange roofs and silver windows. I wonder were the roofs painted black when they got the new IE logos. I stand open to correction if anyone has a pic to say otherwise.

 

Rich,

[josefstadt]

I have two questions that still bug me

 

When did the 2nd hand Mk2A coaches get put into service, and where did they run, are there any photos of them in super train livery ( did I understand correctly they had bright window frames)

 

 

 

Can Anyone confirm what ran behind NON-TL cravens and Park royals to provide the steam heat only ( this should have been around 1978-81)

 

 

thanks

 

Dave

 

Dave, the 6-wheel vans, 3153-3156 lasted until sometime after the end of November 1980. But, as JHB says, the 4-wheel vans would all have been gone by that time. I remember the MkII a/b stock on the Galway line and, as far as I can remember they had black window frames.

[josefstadt]

The big giveaway is the Mk 1 Generator Van. The secondhand Mk 2s could only work with the rebuilt Dutch Vans, due to their oddball heating system.

 

More to do with the fact that the MkII a/b stock was air braked, while the ex-BR GSVs were vacuum braked.

[Junctionmad]

Could the air braked mk 2a run with all the IR locos? I don't think the A class had air had it

 

I remember being on the new 2D on the Waterford Dublin when I was a lad ( around 74 i think ) they were so quiet. But you couldn't open the windows so I did t like em.

Edited November 28, 2014 by Junctionmad

[Junctionmad]

Dave, the 6-wheel vans, 3153-3156 lasted until sometime after the end of November 1980. But, as JHB says, the 4-wheel vans would all have been gone by that time. I remember the MkII a/b stock on the Galway line and, as far as I can remember they had black window frames.

 

 

That would make sense I remember small steam heating vans on the L -W , we always had a motley collection of park royals

 

By the way my memory, of Park royals , is a 3+2 seating , with no tables ?

[Glenderg]

numbers 4101- 4114 and 2B, 4401 , 4402

Useful info, could have been handy at the start!

[UP6936]

Could the air braked mk 2a run with all the IR locos? I don't think the A class had air had it

 

I remember being on the new 2D on the Waterford Dublin when I was a lad ( around 74 i think ) they were so quiet. But you couldn't open the windows so I did t like em.

 

No, As don't have air train brakes. Vacuum only. They actually have a vacuum loco brake as well, which is rather unconventional, especially given the Cs were built with air loco brakes.

[shamrock712]

One A class was fitted with air brakes experimentally in the 80s for use on the shale trains in the Limerick area, unsure of whether it strayed onto any other air braked stock! Unfortunately I can't remember which one it was. It derailed whilst shunting in Tralee.

 

Of note was also the only A class to be fitted with a digital fuel gauge also.

[Killucan2]

029 had air brakes.

[jhb171achill]

Junction mad, you are right about Park Royals having 3 + 2 seating, and no tables.

[Ben]

The mk 2a where Required by Irish Rail around 1990 and rebuilt and entered service in Irish rail intercity livery. they where part of an exchange deal with V Berry Leicester for c Class 201s. They where air braked and the Dutch break Generator vans 4601 4602 4603 where rebuilt to operate with them .

The Mk2d witch where new in 1972 been built at BREL at Derby with minor finishing work by cie and launched as the Super train They had Vacuum Breaks. Later from 1987 to 1990 the mk 2D recived the Irish rail intercity Livery. Mk2a Rebuilt 1990s

Edited November 29, 2014 by Ben

[Horsetan]

Was there any change in width between Mk.2a and Mk.2d vehicles?

[Ben]

Both Mk2a and the later Mk2D Where 9foot 2over body and step Boards

[Junctionmad]

Fascinating stuff

[josefstadt]

I do not want to get too off thread here but since it was brought up above, can someone tell me what is the difference between a standard and a super standard? Does this refer to the physical make up of a coach or livery as I thought was maybe suggested earlier in the thread?

 

DC, hope this helps answer your query:

Up until 1956 passenger accommodation was designated either ‘First Class’ or ‘Third Class’. In that year, ‘Third Class’ was re-designated ‘Second Class’ and the number 3 on the doors was replaced with a 2. This situation lasted until September 20 1965 when ‘Second Class’ became known as ‘Standard Class’. The ‘First Class’ name did not change.

 

The next change occurred in 4 December 1972 when, with the introduction of the Mk IId air-conditioned stock (the ‘Supertrain’), the ‘First Class’ name was changed to ‘Super Standard’. Along with the change in name, the practice of issuing ‘First Class’ tickets also ceased. From that date only ‘Standard Class’ tickets were issued and travel in the ‘Super Standard’ portion of the train was available upon the payment of flat-fee supplement, initially £1. This could either be paid at a booking office or on the train.

[Junctionmad]

PS, Has anyone any interior shots of park royals, I have nice shots of all the other carriages

 

Thanks

 

Dave