Old Blarney Posted July 8, 2015 Posted July 8, 2015 To Mr Provincial Wagons, The floor of the Bullied Wagons. Were these wooden planks or all metal? I ask as I believe I have seen a photograph somewhere of the floor of one of these wagons. Unfortunately, the picture was not a high quality one and the observation is therefor open to doubt. Does anyone know the correct answer? I have a batch of these wagons which I am due to collect from Mr PW when he comes to The Cupar Model Railway Exhibition, 25th and 26th, July. This show is held in The Corn Exchange, Cupar, Fife. KY15. Old Blarney will be visiting this show as will Mr McA of PW. Quote
leslie10646 Posted July 11, 2015 Author Posted July 11, 2015 "The floor of the Bullied Wagons. Were these wooden planks or all metal? I ask as I believe I have seen a photograph somewhere of the floor of one of these wagons". Thanks, David, now you've given me a heart attack about the floor. We based the floor on photographic evidence from a gent in Norway, who had photographed the "preserved" one. That clearly shows the floor as we have modelled it. HOWEVER, when I look at one of the drawings which I have, the suggestion is of a planked floor (latitudenly - hmm - that seems to be a new word, but you know what I mean)!!! However, no photograph to prove that they were ever built like this. That said, the recent photo could easily be sheet steel placed over wood! Feel free to insert a piece of cardboard, suitably scored? I ain't doin' it again!!!!! (Now that's what I call customer service ......) Assuming you're right and I am suspicious that you may be, just when the floors were strengthened (or was it just protecting the wood underneath) is lost in the mists of the 1960s, 70s, 80s ....... Leslie Quote
Mayner Posted July 11, 2015 Posted July 11, 2015 Its possible that some wagons had wooden and others steel floors. The wagons dumped at Liffey Junction in the early 80s all seem to have had wooden floors, in somewhat poor condition after being used as spoil wagons for the DART. There was a piece in Irish Railfans News of the floors of wagons in fertiliser traffic being painted in epoxy paint to resist corrosion, which would make sense with a steel floor. In the early 60s there were rail linked fertiliser plants in Dublin (Gouldings), but also plants in Foynes and in Wicklow. NET seems to have supplied raw fertiliser in bulk to Gouldings and the Wicklow plant when the Shelton Ammonia plant first came on line. Wagons in fertiliser traffic would have run sheeted as you did not want to risk a train load of ammonium nitrate getting wet. Quote
leslie10646 Posted July 12, 2015 Author Posted July 12, 2015 Its possible that some wagons had wooden and others steel floors. The wagons dumped at Liffey Junction in the early 80s all seem to have had wooden floors, in somewhat poor condition after being used as spoil wagons for the DART. There was a piece in Irish Railfans News of the floors of wagons in fertiliser traffic being painted in epoxy paint to resist corrosion, which would make sense with a steel floor. In the early 60s there were rail linked fertiliser plants in Dublin (Gouldings), but also plants in Foynes and in Wicklow. NET seems to have supplied raw fertiliser in bulk to Gouldings and the Wicklow plant when the Shelton Ammonia plant first came on line. Wagons in fertiliser traffic would have run sheeted as you did not want to risk a train load of ammonium nitrate getting wet. John Thanks for this - I'm not changing the floor and you've vindicated our choice! On the business of nitrate traffic, I have a photo by Joe Cassells of No.186 at Kilkenny, but the reason I have the photo is the line of corrugateds with plastic sheeting over their loads - now I know why! Useful to know when recommending what LOADS to put in the wagons! Lord White, King of Fife, Chair of Perth etc, gave me a good line for you guys who want to use the wagons for BEET Traffic - BARLEY grain. I assume he'll turn up at Coupar with a bag of it to fill his new wagons? Greetings from a wet Surrey - you can tell it's Men's Singles Finals day at Wimbledon! Leslie Quote
leslie10646 Posted July 12, 2015 Author Posted July 12, 2015 Oops, sorry - LENTILS - not Barley - The King of Fife says he has some over from his Scotch Broth! Leslie Quote
leslie10646 Posted July 12, 2015 Author Posted July 12, 2015 Apologies, David, a CRAFT moment - you told me perfectly clearly! CRAFT? - the new term for a senior moment ( teenagers not to read this!!!!!) Can't Remember A Fxxxxxxg Thing Now you all know what the numbers in my name mean!!!!! Quote
The Derry Road Posted July 13, 2015 Posted July 13, 2015 Apologies, David, a CRAFT moment - you told me perfectly clearly! CRAFT? - the new term for a senior moment ( teenagers not to read this!!!!!) Can't Remember A Fxxxxxxg Thing Now you all know what the numbers in my name mean!!!!! Another senior moment Leslie there is only 5 x's in Fxxxxxg Quote
Old Blarney Posted July 13, 2015 Posted July 13, 2015 Senior moment? Can't count, can't see, can't hear, can't remember - I know how it feels! Oh, walking and bending are also becoming a problem too. Regards to each of you. David. Quote
leslie10646 Posted July 13, 2015 Author Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) All of that was a CRAFTy way to get your attention. I know that an esteemed member of the Parish is about to let us see his "go" at painting this wagon, so here's FIVE liveries, all correct at some point in the wagons' long history - and we're still working on it! First, in sunlight! Now, under my layout lighting - needless to say they look different! If any of you are old enough to remember them in the early days (I was eleven when they were introduced and had never even heard of CIE) give me an opinion! Nothing rude, mind!!!!! Regards Leslie Edited July 13, 2015 by leslie10646 Quote
minister_for_hardship Posted July 14, 2015 Posted July 14, 2015 Think there may be another variation, before they started double-stacking bodies for beet traffic, I've seen pics of these opens with an enormous, crudely painted letter "B" on the sides. Quote
Old Blarney Posted July 14, 2015 Posted July 14, 2015 Could the crude and large letter "B" have been put on the wagon because it was BANJAXED? Quote
Broithe Posted July 14, 2015 Posted July 14, 2015 Could the crude and large letter "B" have been put on the wagon because it was BANJAXED? Banjax = Ladies' Toilet...? Quote
Old Blarney Posted July 14, 2015 Posted July 14, 2015 Fir-knot = What a female does when questioning a chap whom she has suspicions of! Quote
leslie10646 Posted July 14, 2015 Author Posted July 14, 2015 Think there may be another variation, before they started double-stacking bodies for beet traffic, I've seen pics of these opens with an enormous, crudely painted letter "B" on the sides. Just to try and get a bit of decorum back onto this string - Yes, Minister (oops, sorry!) you are quite right - there are loads of photos around of these wagons with a "B" showing that they were used to carry a well-known agricultural product. The double deckers (of which, more later) had crude numbers slapped on their ends! Quote
leslie10646 Posted July 16, 2015 Author Posted July 16, 2015 This really should be on someone's "Workbench" string, but as he did it for me ..... Now you see it - Now you don't! This one complete with the Modeller's finger! It'll be On Old Blarney at Cupar on 25th being loaded with Lord White's possessions! To quote the Lego Movie (Yep, I've seen it a dozen times - I HAVE a six year old grandson!) - it's just "Aaaah-sum"! Leslie Quote
Kirley Posted July 16, 2015 Posted July 16, 2015 Excellent, I thought someone would have a go at an opening door. It just adds to the realism. Quote
minister_for_hardship Posted July 17, 2015 Posted July 17, 2015 What keeps the door from opening en route so to speak? Quote
jhb171achill Posted July 17, 2015 Posted July 17, 2015 Regulations in the WTT, Minister...... Yes - the model is THAT realistic......! Quote
Dunluce Castle Posted July 17, 2015 Posted July 17, 2015 What keeps the door from opening en route so to speak? Thanks Leslie for posting the pics! And to Kirley for your comment. The door believe it or not, when closed actually stays closed, I was thinking about making a latch of some sort but it would be over scale and taking it too far haha, so instead there are 2 strips of plasticard on the ends of the bodies and when the door is pushed shut it lodges in quite nicely. Nelson Quote
Old Blarney Posted July 17, 2015 Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) Wonderful wagon - so, so realistic. Edited July 17, 2015 by Old Blarney Quote
Junctionmad Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 Hmm n real life the door ended up above the rail height when open ?? Quote
leslie10646 Posted July 18, 2015 Author Posted July 18, 2015 Hmm n real life the door ended up above the rail height when open ?? Not sure what you mean by this. If you mean "did it?" I have no idea, as I don't think I have an open door photo to hand. In making some wagons like this, our intention was to make it possible for diarama with an open door - that is at a loading bank for some kind. Why would you want to run the wagon with the door open? Quote
dave182 Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 I get what you are saying junctionmad. I would assume if a rake of wagons was being shunted and unloaded for example, that the doors would need to be clear of the railhead height. I've only found one (inconclusive) picture on the net of one with the door open: http://dunsandlestation.blogspot.ie/2005/01/tuam-2004.html?m=1 Quote
dave182 Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 And that's not criticism of the model in any way, the model is amazing. I think most yards in Ireland through the 80s and 90s had at least one of these beached up at the end of a siding in some form of disrepair! Quote
Mayner Posted July 20, 2015 Posted July 20, 2015 The drop down doors on open wagons are designed so that they are clear of the railhead/inside the loading gauge to avoid a West Ealing style situation http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/eventsummary.php?eventID=135. The beet opens were unloaded in the beet factory's by high pressure water jet, possibly moved with the doors down wonder if there is any archive of the unloading on youtube Quote
Junctionmad Posted July 20, 2015 Posted July 20, 2015 Not sure what you mean by this. If you mean "did it?" I have no idea, as I don't think I have an open door photo to hand. In making some wagons like this, our intention was to make it possible for diarama with an open door - that is at a loading bank for some kind. Why would you want to run the wagon with the door open? because when I saw these rakes running back empty to wellington bridge in the 70s there was always one or two wagons with the doors open Quote
Old Blarney Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 (edited) Open doors, shut doors. Well I have just received one of the latter and nine of the former. I have to say I'm as happy as a "Sand Boy." These wagons really do make a model railway look authentically Irish. I am doing my best to make some of the wagons look a little tired and well used. These will be seen at Cupar Show, Cupar, Fife, KY15, this week end. Thank you Leslie and your chief assistant for these wonderful wagons. Edited July 21, 2015 by Old Blarney Quote
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