JT22CW Posted September 16, 2016 Posted September 16, 2016 (edited) Evening folks! Haven't posted much yet, as I'm still fairly new - evidently. Before I go on to my big idea, let me nail out a few details for you. I'm Ewan - A Glaswegian, living in Manchester, supporting a London football team, with the idea of an Irish layout in mind... I got into Irish trains by watching a fair few videos on YouTube of 071s at full chat, and that was enough to get me hooked, let alone the quality of models provided by the likes of Murphy. Since then, I've flogged all my "British" stuff and bought myself an 071, which in Manchester is not an easy feat. I just need a few bits of help to really kick start the project. So far I've got a name - Shannarch West. Shannarch West is a small/medium sized loco servicing depot and refuelling point somewhere between Dublin and Cork. The depot will eventually be host to a number of 071s, and if it's both accurate to do and I can find them - 141s, with the occasional appearance of struggling 201s that require light work before a major overhaul at a bigger depot elsewhere. Now, bearing in mind the 071 I currently own carries the IE arrow logo, I suspect this places the loco somewhere in the Mid 1990s era, which also allows the introduction of the 201 into the fleet. How many of the older logos could I marginally get away with operating on an Irish layout at this point in time (or at least between 1995 and say, 2000). Also, what would be the kinds of coaching stock you'd expect to see in this period, as my only knowledge so far gained by YouTube videos has been BR style Mark 2 and Mark 3 coaches with a few modifications, but my concern would more be what kind of liveries would these coaches have. Anyone's help regarding the Mid 90s railway scene in Ireland is much appreciated, I've got a rough track plan in mind but that's always subject to change. I'm sure I'll post pictures along the way. Here's the 071 in all her finery though - to say I was gobsmacked when I got it out the box is an understatement. Cheers! Edited September 16, 2016 by JT22CW Quote
Sulzer201 Posted September 16, 2016 Posted September 16, 2016 Welcome Ewan you have made a great choice and that is a fantastic looking loco in the form of 078 to start the collection. Good luck with the new layout Shannarch West and the members on here will provide great encouragement and top rate advice whenever you need it. Quote
Old Blarney Posted September 16, 2016 Posted September 16, 2016 Evening folks! Haven't posted much yet, as I'm still fairly new - evidently. Before I go on to my big idea, let me nail out a few details for you. I'm Ewan - A Glaswegian, living in Manchester, supporting a London football team, with the idea of an Irish layout in mind... I got into Irish trains by watching a fair few videos on YouTube of 071s at full chat, and that was enough to get me hooked, let alone the quality of models provided by the likes of Murphy. Since then, I've flogged all my "British" stuff and bought myself an 071, which in Manchester is not an easy feat. I just need a few bits of help to really kick start the project. So far I've got a name - Shannarch West. Shannarch West is a small/medium sized loco servicing depot and refuelling point somewhere between Dublin and Cork. The depot will eventually be host to a number of 071s, and if it's both accurate to do and I can find them - 141s, with the occasional appearance of struggling 201s that require light work before a major overhaul at a bigger depot elsewhere. Now, bearing in mind the 071 I currently own carries the IE arrow logo, I suspect this places the loco somewhere in the Mid 1990s era, which also allows the introduction of the 201 into the fleet. How many of the older logos could I marginally get away with operating on an Irish layout at this point in time (or at least between 1995 and say, 2000). Also, what would be the kinds of coaching stock you'd expect to see in this period, as my only knowledge so far gained by YouTube videos has been BR style Mark 2 and Mark 3 coaches with a few modifications, but my concern would more be what kind of liveries would these coaches have. Anyone's help regarding the Mid 90s railway scene in Ireland is much appreciated, I've got a rough track plan in mind but that's always subject to change. I'm sure I'll post pictures along the way. Here's the 071 in all her finery though - to say I was gobsmacked when I got it out the box is an understatement. Cheers! [ATTACH=CONFIG]25139[/ATTACH] Evening folks! Haven't posted much yet, as I'm still fairly new - evidently. Before I go on to my big idea, let me nail out a few details for you. I'm Ewan - A Glaswegian, living in Manchester, supporting a London football team, with the idea of an Irish layout in mind... I got into Irish trains by watching a fair few videos on YouTube of 071s at full chat, and that was enough to get me hooked, let alone the quality of models provided by the likes of Murphy. Since then, I've flogged all my "British" stuff and bought myself an 071, which in Manchester is not an easy feat. I just need a few bits of help to really kick start the project. So far I've got a name - Shannarch West. Shannarch West is a small/medium sized loco servicing depot and refuelling point somewhere between Dublin and Cork. The depot will eventually be host to a number of 071s, and if it's both accurate to do and I can find them - 141s, with the occasional appearance of struggling 201s that require light work before a major overhaul at a bigger depot elsewhere. Now, bearing in mind the 071 I currently own carries the IE arrow logo, I suspect this places the loco somewhere in the Mid 1990s era, which also allows the introduction of the 201 into the fleet. How many of the older logos could I marginally get away with operating on an Irish layout at this point in time (or at least between 1995 and say, 2000). Also, what would be the kinds of coaching stock you'd expect to see in this period, as my only knowledge so far gained by YouTube videos has been BR style Mark 2 and Mark 3 coaches with a few modifications, but my concern would more be what kind of liveries would these coaches have. Anyone's help regarding the Mid 90s railway scene in Ireland is much appreciated, I've got a rough track plan in mind but that's always subject to change. I'm sure I'll post pictures along the way. Here's the 071 in all her finery though - to say I was gobsmacked when I got it out the box is an understatement. Cheers! [ATTACH=CONFIG]25139[/ATTACH] The following information is copied from a post by a member of this Forum who is a well known authority on the details of the Railways of Ireland as were, his Father and Grandfather:- The GSWR crest lasted three quarters of a century. The GNR crest lasted from 1876 to 1958. The GSR crest, 20 years. BCDR - longer. Flying snail - almost 20 years. UTA crests - about 10 years each. NIR logo as was - in various forms 1967-1996 or so. Broken wheel - 1962-87. IE Set of points - 1987 - maybe early 90s, getting shorter. Three-pin-plug - over 15 years. I hope this information is of help to you! However, it is worth noting the various colour schemes used by Coras Iompair Eireann (CIE), Irish Rail and its successor, Iarnrod Eireann have all overlapped one-and-other, often by a significant number of years. Thus, one may legitimately use rolling stock from previous incarnations with that of the successor or even successors. Green with Black-and Tan, oh sorry, Golden Brown. CIE Greens, there were various shades over the years. Grey (121) Locomotives as well Green Locomotives were to be seen pulling Green Rolling Stock mixed with Golden Brown and Black, coaches and Steam Heating Vans. The 071 class have overlapped in colour schemes too. The original Black and Gold was not immediately replaced when Irish rail was formed from CIE in 1987. Likewise the replacement livery of IR was not immediately replaced by the IE incarnation using the Plug and Socket emblem. When the first IE, Freight Livery was introduced, there was a considerable overlap in years before that colour scheme was applied to all of the 071 Locomotives. Thus, for a short time it was possible that one could see three different liveries on 071 locomotives. I hope this is of help to you. Happy modelling and welcome to Irish railways. Old Blarney. Quote
JT22CW Posted September 16, 2016 Author Posted September 16, 2016 Thanks for that Old Blarney, that's worth it's weight in gold that gen is! Quote
richrua Posted September 16, 2016 Posted September 16, 2016 Welcome to the site, it has been incredibly helpful to me. There are loads of lads on here who can help. Check out the photo/video section , I found out lots of stuff on the 80/90 scene and liveries/locos just by watching the vids! Also I picked up a copy of a great little book called locomotives and rolling stock of I r and NIR Quote
DiveController Posted September 17, 2016 Posted September 17, 2016 (edited) The locomotive you have chosen to start it all with, MM0078 is in the last of the orange liveries that were used on the 071 class by Iarnrod Eireann. The overall livery was unchanged from the previous color scheme that was introduced by Irish Rail in 1987 bearing the "IR" or "set of points" logo. The new "IE" logo was introduced in 1994 by Iarnrod Eireann and is generally referred to as the "three-pin-plug" logo. The logo on the side of the locomotive normally completely spans the black band and white Tippex stripes, extending slightly onto the orange bands above and below. The logo on your locomotive is the small version of the "three-pin-plug" logo. Only three 071 class locomotives had this particular small logo on the side, if I remember correctly they were 076, 078 and 086. http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/showthread.php/3532-IE-Small-Logo?highlight=small+logo" The small versions of the logo were all replaced with the larger version later on. As has been pointed out above not everything was repainted on the same day, major repaints occurring usually when the locomotive came in for a major overhaul. Therefore, it would have been very common to see locomotives with either logo running side-by-side with the newer logo which gradually becoming more common with time. Although equipped for multiple working, the 071 class did not want normally "double-head" (any photos of this online are usually in the circumstance where one loco has actually failed and being hauled by the other. It would not be unusual to see a consist of 141 class locomotives, one with the "set of points" and one with the "three-pin-plug" pulling a train. I doubt that any 071 class remained in "Supertrain" livery by the time the "three-pin-plug" delivery was first introduced in 1994. 071 class would have them run on the mainline with the MkIII coaches in the "Intercity" livery and hauled freight with increasing in frequency in particular with the arrival of the 201 class. These had an original livery such as MM0203 (Hattons of Liverpool) and a full face like MM0210 River Erne. 201 class locomotives are easy enough to come by. 071 Class still available for purchase from model shops in Ireland in the UK. Marks models have a sale recently and if he is still on, they have a great variety of 071 class locomotives still available and the amount you would save on the sale will certainly cover the postage to the United Kingdom. Other 071s such as MM0077 is in stock at Rails of Sheffield. I think Flickr is a great resource for inform yourself of the great variety of things that ran together. One of our members albums https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/albums/72157629465365997 141 Class locomotives are harder to come by but still turn up for sale on this site, at exhibitions, mostly in Ireland, I would say to be fair, and in places like eBay. If you don;t mind paying a little over the odd you can get them if you're patient. Murphy models will be releasing the long-awaited 121 class near the end of the year including the three pin plug livery which I'm sure it will sell out like hotcakes. The book that Rich mentions above is a great resource. The third edition was printed about 1987, right when the "set of points" livery was being introduced. There are some slightly later books e.g. “Irish Railways Traction and Travel” by Peter Jones, Published by Metro Enterprises Ltd. that may be helpful The 1994 edition may be of interest; The ex-BR Mk2a coaches were purchased about 1992 to augment the existing Mark2a coaches. They were air-braked (most others were vacuum braked) and ran with the 071 class locomotives. There are plenty of pictures of the Mk2a (& others) at RailfanEurope.net http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/ie/car/IE/pix.html Backmann/Murphy models produced to Mk2a coaches in both IR and IE Intercity liveries but that must've been 15 years ago and these coaches are harder to find. Lima MkIII coaches turn up from time to time but be slightly careful when you're purchasing these as they can be found into slightly different colors one more orange, the latter a more yellow shade. Excellent tread on stock here http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/showthread.php/157-LIMA-Murphy-Models/page3?highlight=wrenneire+lima+murphy Some of the Cravens coaches persisted into the mid 90s, some still in their original blacker rather than later livery (with top Tippex and orange band) near the cantrail. These would've run on secondary services such as Friday only services e.g. Dublin Sligo etc. Last of the MM Cravens can still be found in the usual places. Hope this helps K Edited September 17, 2016 by DiveController Added link Quote
Noel Posted September 17, 2016 Posted September 17, 2016 Welcome. 141/182 class were as much part of the scene in mid 90s as 071s, especially on secondary duties and often paired in consists. 201s were really only talking over mainline intercity trains from about 1996 onwards. Upto that 071 was the mainstay loco for intercity. Quote
JT22CW Posted September 17, 2016 Author Posted September 17, 2016 Just another question folks I have found the NI Railways 071 / 111 in the dark blue livery on eBay What time period does this owe itself to... Quote
JasonB Posted September 17, 2016 Posted September 17, 2016 Just another question folks I have found the NI Railways 071 / 111 in the dark blue livery on eBay What time period does this owe itself to... The darker blue livery fits nicely into the period your covering.It still carries that livery today. Quote
JT22CW Posted September 17, 2016 Author Posted September 17, 2016 Thanks skipper! I could always say it got lost on it's way, hence why it's found itself between Cork and Dublin... Quote
The Derry Road Posted September 17, 2016 Posted September 17, 2016 Ewan, welcome to the forum, you'll get all the help from forum members, just ask. TDR Quote
Garfield Posted September 17, 2016 Posted September 17, 2016 Thanks skipper! I could always say it got lost on it's way, hence why it's found itself between Cork and Dublin... Welcome to the forum, Ewan. You don't have to make wild excuses to have NIR's 112 on your layout... it spent a while on loan to Irish Rail in the mid '00s. Pic here: http://briansolomon.com/trackingthelight/2012/12/12/out-on-the-beet-turning-muck-into-gold/nir-112-with-laden-beet-tay/ (The date in the copyright notice is way later...) Quote
JT22CW Posted September 17, 2016 Author Posted September 17, 2016 Well, I've got a track plan. Of sorts... Twin track mainline will span the entire length of the running area, simulating the Cork - Dublin mainline. Access to either point section of Shannarch West Junction is currently only accessible from the Western end of the line, subject to change as I may put in a crossover at the Eastern side of the junction. The black line between the mainline and the depot is to represent what will be palisade fencing. There will be a number of features to the depot, modelling as mentioned, a somewhat medium sized depot, able to cater for all sizes of locos in a number of ways. From left to right we have: Loco Washing Plant - Because who wants dirty locos!? Fuelling Point / Load Bank Point - I haven't decided what I'm going to do at this point. I like the idea of having 071s and 201s with DCC Sound being "plugged in" to check engine levels (or rather, running at Notch 8 whilst stationary), which is why I'm leaning towards making this part a Load Banking Point. Loco Shed B - As described in the image, Loco Shed B will be for light day-to-day maintenance and overnight stabling. Refuelling facilities may be included in this shed if the Load Bank area is to go ahead. Thunderbird Loco Stabling Siding - Like many British mainline stations, there will be a "Thunderbird" loco plonked here, on permanent standby ready to be dispatched to rescue a train at a moments noticed. This will be on the 'Mainline' side of the fence. Carriage Siding - Fairly self explanatory. The siding will be long enough to accommodate a short rake of coaches, maybe in for light maintenance or storage for example. Wheel Lathe - Locos and rolling stock are not exempt from wheelflats, regardless of what country they're operating in. This single road shed will feature lifting jacks within it, and be the location where said locos and coaching stock get their tyres turned. Main Loco Shed - Again, as per the description on the track plan. This shed should be long enough to hold at least two 071s buffers to buffers. This will be the shed where heavy maintenance and overhaul of locomotives and their respective parts will take place. I'm not sure if it's over the top or remarkably simple, but, I can just picture it when I'm finished looking splendid, with lots of little areas to focus. I just have to get around to actually making it a reality... Think I'll be taking many notes from the likes of Everard Junction's YouTube channel regarding things like ballasting and track weathering! Comments and thoughts are more than welcome folks! Quote
DiveController Posted September 17, 2016 Posted September 17, 2016 Some of what was on Irish Rails in 1995, just a sample Quote
JT22CW Posted September 17, 2016 Author Posted September 17, 2016 Also found a brilliant webpage with tons of pictures myself! http://www.penmorfa.com/Ireland Quote
DiveController Posted September 17, 2016 Posted September 17, 2016 (edited) ... it spent a while on loan to Irish Rail in the mid '00s. Pic here: http://briansolomon.com/trackingthelight/2012/12/12/out-on-the-beet-turning-muck-into-gold/nir-112-with-laden-beet-tay/ (The date in the copyright notice is way later...) 112 was on loan to IE for a considerable period hence the small replacement parts on the cab side windows and marker lights which were replaced with newer LEDs Definitely wandering off her cross border routes, as if proof was required .... Also found a brilliant webpage with tons of pictures myself! http://www.penmorfa.com/Ireland Great site! One thing about Flick is that it tends to have newer photos on there for the most part. Lots of other sites with great older pics Edited September 17, 2016 by DiveController Quote
JT22CW Posted September 17, 2016 Author Posted September 17, 2016 Oh DiveController... I may need a quiet word with myself in the corner... Quote
DiveController Posted September 17, 2016 Posted September 17, 2016 Oh DiveController... I may need a quiet word with myself in the corner... Let us know the outcomes of your deliberations with yourself over there Quote
Noel Posted September 18, 2016 Posted September 18, 2016 Also found a brilliant webpage with tons of pictures myself! http://www.penmorfa.com/Ireland Wow what great pictorial record of that era. And not a tram in sight. Some interesting formations. Quote
201bhoy Posted September 18, 2016 Posted September 18, 2016 Sounds like a great layout idea! Plan looks very good too, good luck with it! Quote
Old Blarney Posted September 18, 2016 Posted September 18, 2016 JT22CW, Your proposed Track Plan. Thunderbird Loco Stabling Siding - Like many British mainline stations, there will be a "Thunderbird" loco plonked here, on permanent standby ready to be dispatched to rescue a train at a moments noticed. This will be on the 'Mainline' side of the fence. May I suggest you consider replacing the crossover (As shown above) with a Single Slip? Alternatively, a Double Slip as either will increase your operating options. Your proposed plan limits any directly movement from your Thunderbird Loco Siding to your Cork Road. Substituting a Double Slip, where your Crossover is, would also permit you to access the up (Cork to Dublin) road for wrong line running in the Down Direction. (Dublin to Cork) Quote
Junctionmad Posted September 19, 2016 Posted September 19, 2016 was there any such depot like this in real life outside of Inchicore ?, just wondering , had cork service facilities > Quote
Old Blarney Posted September 19, 2016 Posted September 19, 2016 Thanks for that Old Blarney, that's worth it's weight in gold that gen is! Found these photographs - they may well help you! There are many photographs of - 071 -- 141 Etc. http://metrovick.com/ Quote
JT22CW Posted September 19, 2016 Author Posted September 19, 2016 His YouTube channel is what inspired me to go Irish as it happens! Quote
JT22CW Posted September 19, 2016 Author Posted September 19, 2016 Version 2 has been sketched out in AnyRail! The diamond crossing has been replaced with 2 pairs of points to enable access to either line in either direction. The thunderbird siding has been moved directly next to the mainline, and in turn, the carriage sidings have been moved further away from the shed, as well has now also having an extra road available - these may be lengthened. The rest is pretty much as is. The rough gauge of where the site offices and mess room is not permanent. I may split these buildings up rather than have one huge complex. We'll see. Thanks for the guidance from a few people, definitely took into consideration some of the points that were raised, fairly happy with how it looks at the minute though, of course any more suggestions are more than welcome! Quote
Glenderg Posted September 19, 2016 Posted September 19, 2016 (edited) Welcome aboard Speccy, a gutsy start! I have a few comments - primarily based on the fact that I hate any rail design on a computer. It's like fine dining coming out of a microwave, but don't let my old skool approach of encouraging the pencil and paper interfere with your enthusiasm! Many a bugger on here hasn't even put a two pieces of track together the layout doesn't look particularly "Irish" - have a rattle through Inchicore Dublin, Carew Road Limerick, North Wall Alexandra Road, Connolly Dublin on google earth/maps to get an idea of how they stable locos and utilise buildings. CIE/Irish Rail tend to utilise the layout of their inherited environment. Unlike their compatriots in the UK, they tended not to spend money on wholesale redevelopment and creation of TMD's, so you could get away with a crumbling red brick admin building beside a brand spanking new refuelling line. (Limerick again, I'm thinking) If I were you, I'd print out what you have and sketch in the buildings - these are an absolute necessity. they could be 180 year old random rubble stone things beside recent ones. Get that right, with the help of google maps, and it'll tell you exactly where the rails should go. Keep pushing on, it's got the bones of a really grimy, brilliant layout, the smell of drizzle and fuel oil in the background! Richie. Edited September 19, 2016 by Glenderg Quote
JT22CW Posted September 19, 2016 Author Posted September 19, 2016 I will certainly bear that in mind skipper! I'm pulling all sorts of ideas out the hat at the minute. What I might do for example is have what is currently Loco Shed B as being something old fashioned and original, and have Loco Shed A as being new build and shiny. Or, at least as shiny as something that could have hypothetically been built in the 1990s can be... Still very early days yet. I do like a degree of neatness in all walks of life however, probably why my design looks so... Clean..? Quote
Glenderg Posted September 20, 2016 Posted September 20, 2016 This is a hurried, and probably wrong layout thing, (snapper is gonna ate me) but it's an idea of things, not prescriptive at all. Quote
Mayner Posted September 20, 2016 Posted September 20, 2016 was there any such depot like this in real life outside of Inchicore ?, just wondering , had cork service facilities > Thurles was probably the closest to JT22CWs concept the loco depot was in use into the late 70s and certainly supplied locos for Thunderbird duties. I was on an up IRRS Special from Youghal that was blocked in the station while 007 ran wrong road to Templemore to rescue an Up passenger that had broken down. The depot was likely to have been used to supply locos for the Lisduff Ballast train and servicing locos on South Wexford-Thurles beet specials. Its just about possible that some depot modernisation would have been justified as a base for long distance commuter trains to Heuston and ore from the Lisheen & Galmoy zinc mines which were developed in the mid-1990 went out by rail. The 4 road loco shed was a stone building with a typical GSWR sawtooth roof profile, the GSWR, GSR & CIE had a similar love of pre-cast concrete to the Southern Region typically used precast concrete after 1900 for loco sheds, offices and messrooms. Quote
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