Track Types/Codes

[Alan564017]

Can anybody give a bit of direction relating to track codes. I currently have hornby track, but im looking at getting some Peco (threeway turnouts, double slips). How do the various Peco codes relate to hornby track in terms of rail height?

[Dhu Varren]

PECO code 100 track is identical to Hornby track in terms of rail height, and is fully compatible. The track geometry is totally different in term of radius, but you can mix and match without any problems.

[Glenderg]

The code refers to rail height in inches, so code 100 is 2.54mm high, code 83 and so on, increasingly lower in height. Code 100 or standard is grand if you have older stock with large wheels. R.

[jhb171achill]

So code 83 probably looks more realistic for Irish layouts - is that right?

[DiveController]

Code 83 is very common for HO modeling in the USA. Code 75 seems to be the finescale equivalent for modeling OO. I have to admit I have not done the math on prototypical rail heights for either OO or HO .......

[Garfield]

So code 83 probably looks more realistic for Irish layouts - is that right?

 

Code 75 is preferable if the flanges on your stock allow it (which isn't an issue with today's models). As DiveController says, code 83 is common for US modelling and the track, turnout designs, etc. have a distinctly American look.

[Noel]

Be it Peco code 75, 100 or 83, the 'log in the eye' of 00 gauge track is that it is over 13 scale inches too narrow for Irish broad gauge track and 7 inches too narrow even for UK standard gauge track. The incorrect width between the rails seems much more visually obvious than the track height differences, but at least code 75 visually negates the gauge error. Few have the time, or skills experience to build expensive custom track for 21mm gauge layouts, but when you see a 21mm gauge Irish layout it looks so amazing.

 

Images below from Templot - Adavoyle Junction 21mm scale guage

 

 

Peco 00 Setrack and code 100 streamline are intermixable with Hornby. If you want to mix code 75 you will need short track adaptors to connect the two parts of a layout. http://www.peco-uk.com/product.asp?strParents=&CAT_ID=3327&P_ID=18129

 

 

 

PS: Happy Birthday Garfieldsghost

Edited December 31, 2016 by Noel
typo

[Alan564017]

thanks all for the replys

[David Holman]

Noel's post sums it up nicely and as a fully paid up fan of at least getting close to correct gauge, I would always try to make it look right. However, if you have a load of stock already, then finer rail section will certainly help, as will keeping the viewing angle as shallow as possible [ie close to eye level] to hide the gauge problems.

What always surprises me is that so few Irish modellers consider EM gauge. At 18.2mm this is at least close to 4'8.5" and with code 75 rail will certainly look better than 00/code 100. I get the impression that folk are put off by doing 21mm gauge as they think it needs P4 standards [ie very fine, replacement wheels]. In fact Irish EM works on 20.2mm gauge, but more importantly 1mm flange ways in the points, which means you only need longer axles and on Murphy's diesels, these are available as 'drop in' items with little, if any further work required.

As for 7mm scale - just do it properly from the start, for the small amount of extra work required is more than repaid by the obvious visual effects.

Sermon over!

One other point is that Code 100 means '100 thousandths of an inch'. A tenth in other words, hence the 2.54mm mentioned early. This is readily related to plastic sheet/microstrip, where 40thou = 1mm, 80 thou = 2mm etc, etc

Overall though, whatever works for you is fine by me. It is a hobby and therefore should be enjoyed. Mine comes from the challenge of trying to get things right, but there are plenty of other reasons for doing model railways that are just as valid.

[Junctionmad]

What always surprises me is that so few Irish modellers consider EM gauge. At 18.2mm this is at least close to 4'8.5" and with code 75 rail will certainly look better than 00/code 100. I get the impression that folk are put off by doing 21mm gauge as they think it needs P4 standards [ie very fine, replacement wheels]. In fact Irish EM works on 20.2mm gauge,

 

I think its because if you are going to rewheel everything, you might as well get the gauge right , Why would 5'3" end up at 20.2 by the way, the check gauge ( i.e. flange gauge ) is not a function of track gauge per se, i.e. you can have 21mm with 1mm flangways ( Templot will do this quite nicely )

 

and in my experience nothing is " drop in " going to 21mm EM or P4, often the backs of W irons have to be modified, bogies modded, etc , longer pinpoints ordered ( which are getting harder to source ) , rewheeling bachman, split chassis stills requires skills etc . its all a reasonable effort and if you own a lot of 00 stock , its a big undertaking

 

 

My own view on 00 is that the height of the track contributes to the incorrect visual effect , then you add the flat bottom track effect , where the rail is sitting on the ballast, .Code 75 bullhead is now available from four supplies including PECO, and that when ballasted looks far better then what was available in the past, the bullhead rail, sitting above the ballast also gives a " lightness" to the track.

 

I have tried C&L, SMP and the new DCC Concepts code 75 bullhead, the new PECO look a real winner and Ive some on order. Points of course remain a problem.

 

This brings us back to Noels pic of Adavoyle, in my view low profile 00 bullhead, properly ballasted and blended in , can actually look very convincing

 

dave

Edited January 1, 2017 by Junctionmad

[Glenderg]

 

I did this for an IRM project, and finding this is pretty tricky. You can see fairly clearly that the lower profile of the code 75 would look better under Irish Conditions. Might be of use to someone. Richie.

[Mayner]

What always surprises me is that so few Irish modellers consider EM gauge. At 18.2mm this is at least close to 4'8.5" and with code 75 rail will certainly look better than 00/code 100. I get the impression that folk are put off by doing 21mm gauge as they think it needs P4 standards [ie very fine, replacement wheels]. In fact Irish EM works on 20.2mm gauge, but more importantly 1mm flange ways in the points, which means you only need longer axles and on Murphy's diesels, these are available as 'drop in' items with little, if any further work required.

 

Overall though, whatever works for you is fine by me. It is a hobby and therefore should be enjoyed. Mine comes from the challenge of trying to get things right, but there are plenty of other reasons for doing model railways that are just as valid.

 

Hope I am not hijacking the thread.

 

Time and whether a person prefers running trains to building models are probably the greatest factors in favour of OO compared with EM, P4 or 21mm gauge.

 

I think it was Cyril Freezer the late editor of Railway Modeller that said that it took twice as long to get an equivalent layout running in EM as OO gauge.

 

This probably applies to a greater extent with Irish Broad gauge, apart from Murphy Models diesels & IRMs forthcoming wagons are relatively easy to re-gauge, the majority of Irish rtr coaches, wagons and locos need replacement bogies and running gear as there is insufficient clearance between for 21mm wheel sets.

 

I am don’t know how Martyn Wynne came up with 20.2mm for 5'3" gauge in Templot

 

For many years 4mm Irish modellers lay their track to the correct 21mm gauge whether working to EM or P4 standards.

 

Tim Cramer built a 21mm gauge layout with a 19.5mm back to back in the early 1970s before moving up to O Gauge with coarse scale wheel standards just like the late Drew Donaldson!

 

TMD supplied 21mm roller and a 19.5mm back to back gauge during the mid 80s

 

The Loughrea layout was built to 21mm gauge to EM standards with a 1mm flangeway and 19.3 back to back during the early 1990s.

 

Locos and stock with 19.5B_B run fine on this track work One of Tim’s locos a Bandon Tank preformed regularly operated on the Loughrea Layout together with a GNR JT built about 20 years earlier by the Harry Connaughton a professional model builder

 

 

For someone who prefers operation to building the new Peco bullhead track should be a reasonable compromise for a pre-2000 OO gauge Irish layout and is apparently designed to be compatible with their Code 75 track system. which should be a lot easier to curve than the standard Streamline Code 100 track http://www.anticsonline.co.uk/1263_1_2848804.html.

[GNRi1959]

In the mid 1980s when I built a model of Omagh General Station, with the good advice of both Tony Miles and David Goodwin I began buying parts to build Irish 5'3" track and points. After weeks of trial and error I gave up. It was expensive, difficult and in the end although it may have been visually superior it was just preventing me from progressing. I gave up and resorted to Peco 00 code 100 streamline and burned off all my modelling energy scratch building everything else to detail. I'm now building 'Omagh North' and many years later and wiser, I still am happy to use Peco. I have 10 points in a small 2metre shunting area and wouldn't dream of building them manually.

[RichL]

I think the idea of an 'EM' Irish gauge is due to the width of OO and EM wheels.

 

P4 wheels are narrower. This means that the width over the outside faces of the wheels on a locomotive is reasonably close to prototype. If you push OO or EM wheels out to an accurate gauge, then the measurement across the outside of the wheel faces will inevitably be wider than prototype. This means that splashers, coupling rods, valve gear etc will also have to be noticeably wider than prototype. This is an issue with HO, as there you have accurate gauge but over-wide wheels - resulting in the characteristics mentioned above. Most people are just conditioned to accept it.

 

So, if you want your splashers and all the other stuff outside the wheels to be in the right place you must use correct width wheels, or wider wheels and a slightly narrower gauge to compensate.

 

In practice, of course it is impossible to work to scale tolerances as everything would bind up. Also, coupling rods, valve gear etc. usually end up overscale so that it is reasonably robust.

 

In the end, it is whatever compromise you are happy with that works for you.

[David Holman]

Nicely put, Rich, both in the P4/EM compromise and compromises generally. Nobody should feel they have to do things a certain way, but if anyone wants to change to new/different standards, there will be plenty of folk out there willing to help