Hattons train formation guides

[Noel]

Hattons have published their train formation guide for iconic 1950s to 1960s passenger trains

https://www.hattons.co.uk/newsdetail.aspx?id=500&utm_campaign=Formations - Hornby Titled Trains 050419 (L6bcuW)&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Era 05 (1957-1966) - OO&_ke=eyJrbF9lbWFpbCI6ICJub2VsQGRlcmcuaWUiLCAia2xfY29tcGFueV9pZCI6ICJKR1FlWGgifQ%3D%3D

[Noel]

More train formation guides from hattons. This time freight. Perhaps IRM could do a formation guide in the future for trains like liners, ballasts, cement, weed spray, etc. Or perhaps we could collectively milk the brains of all on here and oracles like @jhb171achill for CIE era and IE/IR trains such as mk2/mk3, mail trains, RPSI formations (eg Galway early morningpax+mail pre1994: 071+Bogie Laminate TPO+Mk1 GSV+mk2d SOx3+mk2drest+mkd2 FO+EGV), and build a sticky thread with visual representation of classic trains.

https://www.hattons.co.uk/newsdetail.aspx?id=501&utm_campaign=Formations - BOC tank wagons 120419 (Q4FiWu)&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Era 7 and Era 8 combined&_ke=eyJrbF9lbWFpbCI6ICJub2VsQGRlcmcuaWUiLCAia2xfY29tcGFueV9pZCI6ICJKR1FlWGgifQ%3D%3D

[DART8118]

Can't understand why this is not already available.  If it included details of where rakes were typically seen that would be great too.

[BosKonay]

4 hours ago, Noel said:

More train formation guides from hattons. This time freight. Perhaps IRM could do a formation guide in the future for trains like liners, ballasts, cement, weed spray, etc. Or perhaps we could collectively milk the brains of all on here and oracles like @jhb171achill for CIE era and IE/IR trains such as mk2/mk3, mail trains, RPSI formations (eg Galway early morningpax+mail pre1994: 071+Bogie Laminate TPO+Mk1 GSV+mk2d SOx3+mk2drest+mkd2 FO+EGV), and build a sticky thread with visual representation of classic trains.

https://www.hattons.co.uk/newsdetail.aspx?id=501&utm_campaign=Formations - BOC tank wagons 120419 (Q4FiWu)&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Era 7 and Era 8 combined&_ke=eyJrbF9lbWFpbCI6ICJub2VsQGRlcmcuaWUiLCAia2xfY29tcGFueV9pZCI6ICJKR1FlWGgifQ%3D%3D

It's actually on our todo list - with full route maps, etc - @Garfield will sort it  

[Broithe]

1 hour ago, BosKonay said:

It's actually on our todo list - with full route maps, etc - @Garfield will sort it  

A whole hour has gone past now - is his internet down?

[Admin]

1 hour ago, Broithe said:

A whole hour has gone past now - is his internet down?

Lol. Unfortunately he’s at Bangor

you may resume ‘encouragement’ Monday

[Broithe]

3 hours ago, Admin said:

Lol. Unfortunately he’s at Bangor

you may resume ‘encouragement’ Monday

Get a cattle prod and put it on expenses.

[BosKonay]

51 minutes ago, Broithe said:

Get a cattle prod and put it on expenses.

If you insist Broithe, I could probably get a second one

[Broithe]

1 hour ago, BosKonay said:

If you insist Broithe, I could probably get a second one

Better safe than sorry.

[jhb171achill]

I’m out gallivanting in Killarney. I’ll delve into the Catacombs when I get back on Wednesday.

Pre-1960, the rule was basically no two wagons alike in goods trains, nor coaches in passenger trains.

A lot of the pics in Rails Through the West will illustrate the 1968-90 period typically.

Even the cement bubbles, when first introduced, would be strewn among other goods vans and open wagons, maybe 2 or  3 at a time.

[Noel]

1 hour ago, jhb171achill said:

I’m out gallivanting in Killarney. I’ll delve into the Catacombs when I get back on Wednesday.

Pre-1960, the rule was basically no two wagons alike in goods trains, nor coaches in passenger trains.

A lot of the pics in Rails Through the West will illustrate the 1968-90 period typically.

Even the cement bubbles, when first introduced, would be strewn among other goods vans and open wagons, maybe 2 or  3 at a time.

That’s what I’m hoping to reproduce with a few h-vans and open wagons, perhaps a 20ft bell or two in a mix rake formation circa 1968. More variety and visually interesting. The new grey livery bubbles will be perfect for such a formation. 

[hexagon789]

A word of caution if I may - I've been informed that certainly as regards the later era (1970s/80s and onwards) formation guides, the rakes are not necessarily prototypically accurate.

 

In some cases it appears they have substituted the correct vehicle types for what is actually available, while this may not affect the 1950s/60s-era guides I felt I should make people aware of this.

 

Regards, Ben.

[josefstadt]

Here are a few examples of train formations from the late 70s to mid-80s era. If I turn up any other examples I'll post them here:

30/07/1978	Up Wexford Cement (empty)	054 + 14 4-wheel pallet cement wagons (28001 series).
31/07/1978	Fertiliser (empty)	002 + 10 bogie fertiliser wagons (35001 series).
01/08/1978	09:40 Bray - Thomastown (Special)	085 + 3216TL + 1501TL + 1369 + 1384 + 1378 + 1465 + 2428 + 1476 + 1360 + 1474 + 1487 + 1383 + 2569.
04/08/1978	08:45 Dublin Heuston - Tralee	082 + 3187TL + 1150TL + 2402TL + 1504TL + 1542TL + 1422TL + 1505TL + 1510TL + 1917TL.
04/08/1978	17:10 Tralee - Dublin Heuston	011 + 1929TL + 2419 + 1545TL + 1528TL + 1425TL + 3189TL.
06/08/1978	11:00 Dublin Heuston - Waterford (deferred 10:30 service)	088 + 1366 + 1379 + 1430 + 1416 + 1461 + 3209TL.
21/08/1978	13:20 Lisburn - Bangor	731 + 765 + 89.
22/08/1978	Crane Special (to remove water tank in loco yard at Bray	161 + 627A + 626A + 295A + 12649 + 23686.
12/05/1979	07:55 Dublin Connolly - New Ross (IRRS Special)	186+155 + 2552 + 1454 + 2403 + 1485 + 1358 + 1470 + 1484 + 3212TL. Also locos 134+129
18/08/1979	08:00 Dublin Connolly - Belfast Central	017 + 1925 + 2420 + 1518 + 1510 + 1533 + 1924 + 1433.
15/03/1986	08:00 Dublin Connolly - Belfast Central	085 + 5602 + 5102 + 5405 +5236 + 5203 + 5213.
22/03/1986	18:00 Belfast Central - Dublin Connolly	082 + 5214 + 5156 + 5157 + 5213 + 5203 + 5236 + 5405 + 5102 + 5602.

 

[Warbonnet]

We've started doing a few of these for Accurascale. If we can get reliable info like above we might do some on the stock we're making (prototypically accurate, of course!)

[iarnrod]

1 hour ago, josefstadt said:

Here are a few examples of train formations from the late 70s to mid-80s era. If I turn up any other examples I'll post them here:

30/07/1978	Up Wexford Cement (empty)	054 + 14 4-wheel pallet cement wagons (28001 series).
31/07/1978	Fertiliser (empty)	002 + 10 bogie fertiliser wagons (35001 series).
01/08/1978	09:40 Bray - Thomastown (Special)	085 + 3216TL + 1501TL + 1369 + 1384 + 1378 + 1465 + 2428 + 1476 + 1360 + 1474 + 1487 + 1383 + 2569.
04/08/1978	08:45 Dublin Heuston - Tralee	082 + 3187TL + 1150TL + 2402TL + 1504TL + 1542TL + 1422TL + 1505TL + 1510TL + 1917TL.
04/08/1978	17:10 Tralee - Dublin Heuston	011 + 1929TL + 2419 + 1545TL + 1528TL + 1425TL + 3189TL.
06/08/1978	11:00 Dublin Heuston - Waterford   (deferred 10:30 service)	088 + 1366 + 1379 + 1430 + 1416 + 1461 + 3209TL.
21/08/1978	13:20 Lisburn - Bangor	731 + 765 + 89.
22/08/1978	Crane Special (to remove water tank in loco yard at Bray	161 + 627A + 626A + 295A + 12649 + 23686.
12/05/1979	07:55 Dublin Connolly - New Ross (IRRS Special)	186+155 + 2552 + 1454 + 2403 + 1485 + 1358 + 1470 + 1484 + 3212TL. Also locos 134+129
18/08/1979	08:00 Dublin Connolly - Belfast Central	017 + 1925 + 2420 + 1518 + 1510 + 1533 + 1924 + 1433.
15/03/1986	08:00 Dublin Connolly - Belfast Central	085 + 5602 + 5102 + 5405 +5236 + 5203 + 5213.
22/03/1986	18:00 Belfast Central - Dublin Connolly	082 + 5214 + 5156 + 5157 + 5213 + 5203 + 5236 + 5405 + 5102 + 5602.

 

Excellent and very valuable information for protoypical running. Some drawings/guides for stock produced by IRM would be a very nice touch.

[steventrain]

Hattons is no longer dealer of Bachmann branchline from August 2019. The preorder have all cancelled.

Hattons stock new item date up July 2019 and still selling second hand items only.

 

See RMWEB forum for detail.

[jhb171achill]

I cannot provide numbers, but a few I recall, which may be taken as typical of the 1972-82 period, on the Nenagh branch, and Rosslare - Waterford - Limerick, Limerick - Athenry - Claremorris - Ballina, and Mallow - Tralee.

I travelled behind 190 or 191 one sunny evening from Rosslare to Waterford. It has a Dutch van and three laminates. The service from Rosslare to Limerick often, in those days, had 4 or 5 bogies, but with enough passengers to put in one. I never saw a Craven once on that service at all, though of course the odd one might have put in an appearance. The service was almost always 141 / 181.

The Limerick - Ballina was usually two carriages and a van. The van was a four wheel genny - in fact I think this was the last line they were used on. Latterly it was a BR or Dutch. No Cravens - here it was the last few Bredins, Park Royals and various laminates (usually laminates). Haulage was within that time almost exclusively 141 / 181 type.

Mallow  - Tralee could be an "A" or a single 141 or 181. I think they sometimes used an engine that had been on a goods - which would explain an "A". Bogie vans were here earlier, with up to five behind them. As well as the inevitable laminates and Park Royals, which formed most rural services (plus Cobh), this particular run might also include Cravens.

In this period, main line services on all lines were indiscriminate mixes of Cravens, Park Royals (including former suburban types), the last few Bredins (up to about 1975/6), and all the variations of the laminate theme. 24XX dining cars were the norm everywhere, Cork and "Enterprise" included, irrespective of what stock was used - with the exception of the Mk 2s, the forst air conditioned carriages.

From 1972, these AC stock were introduced as the "Supertrains", quickly taking over many main routes. These ran in sets, never being mixed with other services, except if a mail train of Mk 2 had an older TPO or other stock behind it, or in the case of an AC train taking locked-off stock trailed behind it. Even this was exceptionally rare, and it may be taken by modellers wishing to run accurate trains that for any period when both AC and non-AC stock was running, that the rule is - 

Supertrain - BREL Mk 2 stock ONLY, with appropriate genny vans. Not Dutch or BR vans, let along 4-wheel ones.

Everything else - anything BUT Supertrain stock, mixed and matched.

So - that means (in the BnT era), any four wheel van, BR van or Dutch van, can run with any Craven, laminate, Park Royal or Bredin. Up to 1974 in the Cork and Dublin area, an occasional (now BnT) old GSWR wooden bogie too. Sets all of one type would have been very rare indeed, even on the Cork line, where the dining car at least would be a wooden-framed 24XX type, as at Downpatrick.