Triangular Underframe

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

What is this 'triangular underframe' malarkey? I hear it was one of Uncle Oliver's 'innovations'. 

[Broithe]

I'm sure I recall it from a Playtex advert in the 60s.

[flange lubricator]

https://patents.google.com/patent/US2533485 

[NIR]

Here is a good picture, hosted elsewhere on this site

 

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

Thanks chaps, now I can see what was going on.

Those tin bath wagons!  

Now, what's this arrangement called? 

It seems a very distinctive feature on CIE four wheel wagons of a certain vintage, and the only British Railways wagon I've come across with a similar arrangement is the Perstwin Cement wagon.  I used one of the old Airfix kits to provide such an underframe on a recent kitbash.  I think Gloucester Cemflos also had this arrangement originally.

[RedRich]

J hangers.

Rich,

[leslie10646]

5 hours ago, NIR said:

Here is a good picture, hosted elsewhere on this site

 

Faithfully represented on the Provincial Wagons kit of this wagon. And the 1953 van ("H" van) and our Ballast flat .....

Oh, and maybe our PalVan. Thanks to the four of you who got in touch!

Come along at the weekend and buy one! You'll love how Michael has fashioned that delicate brake gear!

Edited October 22, 2019 by leslie10646

[leslie10646]

5 hours ago, flange lubricator said:

https://patents.google.com/patent/US2533485 

To quote my website, re the corrugated open -

"The illustration is of the prototype wagon which clearly shows the unusual triangulated chassis, patented by Oliver Bulleid and his chief draughtsman at the Southern Railway - Lionel Lynes. "

I notice from your link that the application was made in Oliver's name only and note the date! The day BEFORE nationalisation of the Railways. Oliver wasn't in favour - was his application that day a last blast of the trumpet for the old Southern?

I wonder what Lionel thought of his boss doing this? Much the same as "George B" attaching his name to the Howden-Meredith wheel, when, I understand, it was Mr M who thought up the idea!

[jhb171achill]

I can’t remember where I took that pic above, but modellers might note a few details. 

The chassis is roughly painted the standard brown. This was actually rare - very rare - which is why I took the pic.

Secondly, modellers might like to note that until “doubled” in height, the bodies were never brown - just the dirty unpainted metal as when built.

Chassis originally grey, of course.

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

5 hours ago, RedRich said:

J hangers.

Rich,

I was at art school with her

[Mayner]

The Irish Model Railway Company  (Herbert Richards) H van drawing showing Bulleid triangulated underframe construction.

The triangulated design was intended as a cheaper/stronger alternative to conventional underframe construction.

The J hanger arrangement in combination with laminated springs provides an element of dampening to allow wagons and coaches to run at higher speed without de-railing

.

[StevieB]

Is there a similar drawing of the Bulleid open wagon anywhere? It would a great help to those of us striving to make accurate models, which is not to say that there is anything wrong with Leslie’s model.

Stephen

[iarnrod]

Is this drawing from a publication or what's the origin of it?

[Mayner]

5 hours ago, iarnrod said:

Is this drawing from a publication or what's the origin of it?

The drawing was produced by Herbert Richards a railway photographer and modeler a member of the Irish Railway Record Society and Transport Research Associates who was basically the "go to" person in Dublin during the 1960s & 70s  for photos of CIE stations, rolling stock and wagon drawings.

The IRRS may be able to assist in contacting Herbert or on accessing his collection of drawings and photographs.

[iarnrod]

Thanks Mayner.

I think Herbert still volunteers in the IRRS archives on Tues nights.

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, iarnrod said:

Thanks Mayner.

I think Herbert still volunteers in the IRRS archives on Tues nights.

Yes, he does. Usually to be found in the archival section (downstairs).

[StevieB]

The H van was mounted on both Bulleid’s triangular underframe and the earlier version with the long brake lever. Leslie’s kit is if the former version, so is there any possibility of a second version to add variety?

Stephen

[RJEB]

Photo and Patent details most welcome.

Bulleid had triangulated underftame steel bodied open and 17T mineral wagon built as well as an underframe during his late Southern Railway days.  There might have also been a 14T wooden bodied merchandiase wagon with 2'9" BFB wheels - I only have the SR daigram 1391.

How does one post images in the conversations?

Does anyone have the CIE weight diagrams for the traingulated underframe wagons?

Rob