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mmie353

DCC Sound for locos in 2020

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Hi, I am wondering in 2020 if i was thinking of getting DCC sound for my 141s, 181s, 071s and my 201s, what DCC sound decoders can I buy at the moment for them? I am interested but I have 15 locos at the moment with no DCC sound, it would be nice to have them upgraded if I can. 

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Murphys 071 & 201 sound should still be available 
Legomanbiffo also provides sound check out DC Kits
When the 121 locos finally appear one of their chips will do the earlier 141's I think

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8 hours ago, mmie353 said:

Hi, I am wondering in 2020 if i was thinking of getting DCC sound for my 141s, 181s, 071s and my 201s, what DCC sound decoders can I buy at the moment for them? I am interested but I have 15 locos at the moment with no DCC sound, it would be nice to have them upgraded if I can. 

Mr Soundguy (Keith Pearson) was the first person to record Irish DCC sounds and market them. He is still selling these as well as a huge range of other UK outline sounds on excellent Zimo soundchips.

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8 hours ago, mmie353 said:

Hi, I am wondering in 2020 if i was thinking of getting DCC sound for my 141s, 181s, 071s and my 201s, what DCC sound decoders can I buy at the moment for them? I am interested but I have 15 locos at the moment with no DCC sound, it would be nice to have them upgraded if I can. 

Hi MMie353. 

You have three main choices:

  • Wheeltappers DCC sounds (also resold by DC Kits and the former Belfast model shop)
  • MrSoundGuy
  • Murphy Models but only for 071 and 201, not the baby GMs for which only the above do.

I've used and experimented with all three. MrSoundGuy uses Zimo decoders, whereas WheelTappers DCC sounds use LokSound chips as do Murphy Models. Personally and this is only personally speaking I prefer the sounds available from WheelTappers projects, but I did like the prototypical driving (ie coasting and braking offered by MrSoundGuy. Kieth Pierson actually recorded an Irish GM 141 some years ago, but it just doesn't sound as good as the engine prime mover used by WheelTappers, and unfortunately at idle there was a loose panel or part on the loco the recording was made from which has an irritating clinking sound.

I liked the driving of the Zimo chip with its coasting and manual braking, but overall I preferred the sounds and experience especially shunting with WheelTappers. I have since equipped most of my 141/181/121 loco with WheelTappers decoder projects. The Murphy Model decoders built by ESU for 071 and 201 class were good but just not as much fun to drive due to lack of prototypical driving features such as coasting, braking and throttle hold for manual control of notching. With the wheel tappers projects I can simulate really heavy trains starting off slowly thrashing and decelerating slowly as they approach stations, and Neil has added some customised features for me including cascading coupling snatch and cascading buffer clash for loose coupled goods trans starting off or stopping. Also he has added personalised rail clank noise and flange squeal as well as proper irish short and long horns including a distance long horn that was so evocative of the 141/181 locos. Anyway have a listen to the YouTube clips I posted below using all three suppliers decoders.

Getting into sound is great fun. Fitting decoder to 201 class is easiest as its through a roof hatch, the 071 requires for screws remove and the central body section popped off but both the 071 and 201 are supplied with speakers fitted so no soldering required, just plug and play. The 141/181 locos require you to fit a speaker into the supplied speaker cradle and solder two speaker wires onto the locos internal PCB. To do this you need to remove the body which is relatively easy once you know how, but to the uninitiated can seem a challenging task avoiding damage to the delicate parts. I can post you photos if you like. It is possible to get this centre 141/181 body section off without the need to remove the walkway handrails which are nigh impossible to put back on properly so best to leave them fitted and just unclip from the cab ends when pulling the body upwards and off to gain access to the internal PCB and speaker cradle.

Enjoy.

Noel

PS: There is a lot of fuss made about the better sound quality from fitting bass reflex speakers but to be honest I've tried them all including iPhone speakers and I really cannot tell much of a difference in the sound between standard 20x40mm speakers and bass reflex speakers housed in a sealed box which requires some loco surgery which most won't feel like doing.

 

WheelTappers 121 project (similar to 141/181) but with 'Power Drive' feature that supports throttle hold and manual notching, plus custom rail clank noises, and flange squeal.

WheelTappers 141 project with automatic notching rather than PowerDrive feature which his later projects have

Mr SoundGuy 141 demo running on MM141 with Zimo DCC decoder

 

Murphy Model 222 loco with standard Murphy Model ESU LokSound decoder (lakes braking, coasting and throttle hold)

 

Cab ride inside 141 class with ESU LokSound V4 chip by WheelTappersDCCsound

 

Fitting a standard speaker to MM 141/181 loco

IMG_6037.jpg

 

Getting the body off an MM 141/181 loco

MM182a.jpg

 

76016BA7-2AF5-4CA9-8BC4-0D9FBA65FF2C.jpg

 

121 loco Athern SW1500 chassis with speaker that fits in bonnet.

IMG_8933.jpg

 

Getting the body off a 141/181 loco. Body is friction fitted by for snap fitting plastic lugs

IMG_1236.JPG

IMG_1235.JPG

 Handrails can stay connected to loco

IMG_1237.JPG

You are probably sorry you asked the question now after all that. Apologies, DCC sound is a passion of mine as it enhances driving models so much. :) 

PS: If you have the time suggest try out one of each (ie WheelTappers and MrSoundGuy). Before committing to doing your whole fleet. Then you'll just know which one suits you personally best.

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Hi All,

Thanks for all the feedback, once I am done with my day of work (which is about to start), Noel I shall be watching those vids that you have advised, not at all sorry that I asked the question. After I asked the question, I actually did some googling around and I came across that the ESU sound chips, maybe for where I am located, could be the route to go as I maybe able to source them locally. I came across these downloads for the 201 and the 071 from the ESU website:

http://www.esu.eu/en/downloads/sounds/generation-4/loksound-v40-oem?no_cache=1&tx_esudecoderprojects_pi1[filterLoco]=2&tx_esudecoderprojects_pi1[filterCountry]=IE&tx_esudecoderprojects_pi1[sorting]=dateD

And a little more googling, I found out how to program a ESU with a computer and also I would need this board - http://www.esu.eu/en/products/lokprogrammer/ and a how to program an ESU sound chip - 

 

Do in trying to see if I can get new 4.0 chips, I found out that I cannot source ESU V4.0 DCC sound chips as they are out of production, however with an ESU chip, apparently the software that you would need Lokprogrammer, is able to convert the files intended for the V4.0 to V5.0. This is the URL for the LokProgrammer - http://www.esu.eu/en/downloads/software/lokprogrammer/. This is the URL from ESU that mentions conversion for a 4.0 to a 5.0 - http://www.esu.eu/en/support/tips-tricks/lokprogrammer-software-50x/random-functions-after-conversion/

So I am not sure what functionality I would loose if I was to get these and program them myself? However I have another question, the actual 5.0 chip, I am unsure if anyone here has looked at getting a Loksound 5.0 for any of the Irish locomotives, but would ESU Loksound 58419 chip or the 58449 be the one that I would go with? Also, can I purchase the sound files from WheelTappers - http://www.wheeltappersdccsounds.co.uk/ for each one? I cannot remember if IRM's A class will be using a Loksound chip as with the upcoming 121's, if they will be using Loksound 5.0 chips as well, but would they also be something I could purchase if I can get the sound decoders myself?

All stay safe and take care.

Mark 

 

 

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Ah well I should have read the destructions in the box...

20200402_163951.thumb.jpg.5ef55e81d5522bc55d3b2c33bb07cb37.jpg

I'm no audio expert but that speaker set up looks a bit... rough? Isn't the speaker supposed to be sealed to the enclosure? 

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On 3/30/2020 at 2:07 PM, mmie353 said:

Hi All,

Thanks for all the feedback, once I am done with my day of work (which is about to start), Noel I shall be watching those vids that you have advised, not at all sorry that I asked the question. After I asked the question, I actually did some googling around and I came across that the ESU sound chips, maybe for where I am located, could be the route to go as I maybe able to source them locally. I came across these downloads for the 201 and the 071 from the ESU website:

http://www.esu.eu/en/downloads/sounds/generation-4/loksound-v40-oem?no_cache=1&tx_esudecoderprojects_pi1[filterLoco]=2&tx_esudecoderprojects_pi1[filterCountry]=IE&tx_esudecoderprojects_pi1[sorting]=dateD

And a little more googling, I found out how to program a ESU with a computer and also I would need this board - http://www.esu.eu/en/products/lokprogrammer/ and a how to program an ESU sound chip - 

 

Do in trying to see if I can get new 4.0 chips, I found out that I cannot source ESU V4.0 DCC sound chips as they are out of production, however with an ESU chip, apparently the software that you would need Lokprogrammer, is able to convert the files intended for the V4.0 to V5.0. This is the URL for the LokProgrammer - http://www.esu.eu/en/downloads/software/lokprogrammer/. This is the URL from ESU that mentions conversion for a 4.0 to a 5.0 - http://www.esu.eu/en/support/tips-tricks/lokprogrammer-software-50x/random-functions-after-conversion/

So I am not sure what functionality I would loose if I was to get these and program them myself? However I have another question, the actual 5.0 chip, I am unsure if anyone here has looked at getting a Loksound 5.0 for any of the Irish locomotives, but would ESU Loksound 58419 chip or the 58449 be the one that I would go with? Also, can I purchase the sound files from WheelTappers - http://www.wheeltappersdccsounds.co.uk/ for each one? I cannot remember if IRM's A class will be using a Loksound chip as with the upcoming 121's, if they will be using Loksound 5.0 chips as well, but would they also be something I could purchase if I can get the sound decoders myself?

All stay safe and take care.

Mark You

 

 

Hi Mark,

I've been using the Lokprogrammer now for several years and use ESU decoders in all my locos. Mine are all V4 as I haven't tried the V5 yet! If you're comfortable with what you've seen of the programming process then I'd 100% recommend getting the Lokprogrammer and there's several reasons why...

Yes, the V4's are no out of production but as you said the V4 files will work on the V5 decoders. I also noticed that the V5 is no more expensive than the V4, a nice surprise!

One thing I disliked about buying sound projects from other manufacturers such as Wheeltappers is that if you don't like the sound project then you're stuck with it unless you sell the decoder or send it back to the supplier for it to be reprogrammed with a different file. This doesn't happen if you have a Lokprogrammer, if you don't like a file you can rewrite it immediately. Adjusting settings or rearranging the functions on a decoder is also super easy with the Lokprogrammer. It can be done without one but manually changing the CV's is time consuming and easy to mess up.

Regarding those files you linked in your post for the 071 and 201. These files can  be used for other locos simply by changing the engine sound. ESU have a library of loco sounds which can be switched around in a file simply by dragging and dropping. Their library of files for US locos is very large and contains plenty of engine variations suitable for Irish locos. All of my Irish loco sound files are built by using the 071 file as a template and changing the engine sound and maybe the horn. Wheeltappers' sound files are the same. ESU seem to have a policy of making any soundfile they produce for particular loco available for download. Whether they do this for the A class remains to be seen.

Another point is that ESU often update the functionality of their decoders to  add extra features this requires the firmware of each decoder to be updated. This is a simple process with the Lokprogrammer and would necessitate sending your decoders to an ESU dealer otherwise! ESU have also stated that the V4 decoders will continue to be supported. While they won't produce any more V4 sound projects, they will always be there for download and the V4 projects will work with the newer V5.

Lastly, consider the cost of the Lokprogrammer. It's around 140euros and blank V5 decoders will run you 100euro each while buying a preloaded decoder from suppliers will usually cost you around 120-130 euro. If you're planning on sound equipping 5 or 6 locos then the Lokpogrammer practically pays for itself.

Hopefully some of that info will be helpful to you! If you have any other questions just give me a shout. I'm no wizard at the Lokprogrammer but I'll help where I can!

Graham.

 

 

 

 

 

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@irishthump I have no issues in trying out programming a DCC decoder. I live in the US and the main reason why I started to look into this is I have when the A class and the 121's are released, close to 50 locomotives that are either DCC ready or I need to hard wire them. They do range from British steam and some diesel, Irish and American locomotives and hence as when I get to building my layout, I have to also get a DCC decoder for all of them. May as well get a few here and there and get sound installed. When I do this, I would like to source my decoders locally, which I live near a model store that seems to be a dealer for ESU decoders. I have not gotten to check out the store in a bit, but I will get there. (not getting into the question of my choice of locos, I love the engineering of steam locos from the UK, of course nothing like an Irish diesel, grown to like the American locos also)

I seem not to be able to get v4.0 decoders over here as I have looked online for them. I am waiting to see if I can get the same decoders over here as I am advised that for my 071 and 201 I would need to get a 97418 but that is a challenge to source over here. I have tried to setup an account with ESU but with what is going on with Covid 19, that could be a while before they get back to me on my account activation as I am trying to see if I can use 58419 or 58449 can take the place of 97418. I would then look to upgrade my 141s and 181s. 

I meant to ask Fran at IRM if and when the A class comes out and the decoders become available for them, if it is possible to purchase the sound file for them. 

I was hoping to visit the homeland in June but that is up in the air so if that does not happen, some of the money for that trip may get, "re-assigned".....

I so thank all the replies that I have gotten on this topic and if it is assistance to anyone else, i am glad, please if someone else has something to shed more light on the ESU decoder question I have, then thanks in advance.  

Mark

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Posted (edited)

@mmie353

Ah ok, I didn't realise you were based in the states. From what I gather the Loksound Select is the standard decoder that the US market seems to have settled on, so the 21 pin decoder is very hard to source on your side of the pond! Also, I believe that as soon as the V5 was released retailers pretty much pulled stock of the V4's so they're near impossible to get anywhere. For the 141/181 you could use the 8 pin decoder if available and get an adaptor plate as you don't need as many lighting functions.

There's an excellent ESU discussion group - https://groups.io/g/Loksound  Matt Herman who runs the US side of ESU retail checks in there regularly and you can put questions directly to him. The group is also great for general advice on programming and installation.

This is where I buy my decoders - https://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/Digital+_sp_+Digital+boxes/Digital/gb/liste.html?spur=H0&hersteller=ESU&grup=Decoder+with+sound

They deliver stateside if you're interested. Or maybe get them delivered to relative in Ireland if you get the chance to visit home, delev

I asked Fran myself about the possibility of the soundfile being available separately, but it was early days so he couldn't tell me. Like yourself, I'd be happy to pay for the file.

Edited by irishthump

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Posted (edited)

@irishthump

Thanks again dude for getting back to me, I am checking into the group that you suggested and well we shall see what happens.. I am trying to get what I can over here as I am finding that in the last few orders from Europe are getting held longer before they get delivered to me. I was about 3 or 4 weeks waiting for the Liners to get to me and it was another long wait for me to get the ferts. It it not the fault on IRM for any delay in my orders getting to me and anytime that I have asked them with my orders, they have been more than helpful whenever I reach out to them in all fairness to them. 

We shall keep an ear to the ground and wait for the A class to come available and I am sure that Fran and the rest of the team at IRM will be able to answer the question on the sound file for them, closer to the time they are due out. By any chance, anyone know anymore on the class 121's and the sound decoders in them? I thought that I read somewhere that more news on that is pending? I could be wrong... 

Edit - then I read the information on the Murphy Models website and maybe this is what the 121's will use? https://www.amazon.com/58419-LokSound-Decoder-Speaker-Programming/dp/B07RVHRY3K/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=esu+loksound+esu+sound+decoder+21+pin&qid=1586315836&sr=8-3

Mark

Edited by mmie353

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Posted (edited)

Mark,

The decoder in the link will work for any of the currently available Murphy locos. It also comes prewired with a speaker so it will be perfect for the 141/181's. You can remover the speaker cradle in the 141 and fix the sugar cube speaker in it's place, those speakers sound a little batter than the regular 20X10mm speaker that the cradle is made for. Or alternatively  disconnect the speaker wires from the decoder and solder them to the speaker terminals on the PCP.

If you're using that decoder in the 071 or 201 simply remove the speaker from the decoder.

Edited by irishthump
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Just recalled a conversation with PM about the forthcoming 121 sound chips
They will be made exclusively for him, 2 chips being produced for the different motors.
Around 24 functions if I remember correctly
Sound files will not be available on the ESU website, they are PM's property
I am sure he told me loads more and if I remember it I will update here
Stay safe people!
 

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On ‎4‎/‎8‎/‎2020 at 2:15 PM, WRENNEIRE said:

Just recalled a conversation with PM about the forthcoming 121 sound chips
They will be made exclusively for him, 2 chips being produced for the different motors.
Around 24 functions if I remember correctly
Sound files will not be available on the ESU website, they are PM's property
I am sure he told me loads more and if I remember it I will update here
Stay safe people!
 

The only thing I'd be worried about is who PM gets to create the soundfile. A lot of Loksound files created for European locos don't take advantage of the new features on the decoders. Functions like the Drive Hold and Coast features are not used at all in the files produced for the likes of Roco and Piko. Only the US manufacturers make use of them, understandable as they were developed because Soundtraxx were way ahead of them in that regard.

To be honest I'll hold off buying the decoders until we get a demo of them.....

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If you are into working with the Lokprogrammer, it is quite a simple matter to add Drive Hold, Coast and Brake functions to The ESU sound files for the 071 and 201. It is simply a matter of finding an FT fitted American loco with similar running characteristics to the 071 or 201, opening the program, opening sound slot 1, and deleting the contents completely. Any other unwanted sounds can also be deleted. Then open the 071 or 201 sound file alongside the now empty American loco program, and copy and paste the entire 071 or 201 sound slot 1 from the 071 or 201 program into the empty program, and Robert is your uncle. Then copy other sounds like horns etc and insert them where they need to go. All my 071/111s and 201s are running with downloaded ESU programs, but with Full Throttle features. It is worth trying, as you can always reprogram the decoder with the original ESU program if you are not happy with the results, or you screw up the transfer. 

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32 minutes ago, Dhu Varren said:

If you are into working with the Lokprogrammer, it is quite a simple matter to add Drive Hold, Coast and Brake functions to The ESU sound files for the 071 and 201. It is simply a matter of finding an FT fitted American loco with similar running characteristics to the 071 or 201, opening the program, opening sound slot 1, and deleting the contents completely. Any other unwanted sounds can also be deleted. Then open the 071 or 201 sound file alongside the now empty American loco program, and copy and paste the entire 071 or 201 sound slot 1 from the 071 or 201 program into the empty program, and Robert is your uncle. Then copy other sounds like horns etc and insert them where they need to go. All my 071/111s and 201s are running with downloaded ESU programs, but with Full Throttle features. It is worth trying, as you can always reprogram the decoder with the original ESU program if you are not happy with the results, or you screw up the transfer. 

That's exactly what I do with my own locos. I just use the 071 or 201 file as a template and drop in the different engine sound, simple.

 

ESU recently added the 8cyl versions of the EMD 567 and 645 engines to their library. Both perfect for 141/181/121's. They even have different versions so you can vary them across your locos.

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What is the difference between a "genuine" MM decoder for the 201 and 071 and a self programmed Loksound V4 using the ESU projects which are available to download for those two models specifically?

Is there any difference? From reading the ESU page it sounds (haha) as if these are the projects that were used by MM (it says OEM) themselves.

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1 hour ago, murphaph said:

What is the difference between a "genuine" MM decoder for the 201 and 071 and a self programmed Loksound V4 using the ESU projects which are available to download for those two models specifically?

Is there any difference? From reading the ESU page it sounds (haha) as if these are the projects that were used by MM (it says OEM) themselves.

The sound file projects for MM 071 and MM 201 were feely available from the ESU web site. If one had a LokProgrammer one could download these projects to blank LokSound V4 decoders which are no longer available. Don't know if ESU re-ported the V4 projects to V5 format. @irishthump of this parish has made done so and has successfully made his own baby GM projects from other ESU free sound downloads. 

Four options for sound decoder projects for MM 071 and MM 210 loco models

  1. Murphy Models supplied decoders LokSound V4 MM0044, MM0055 (071 & 201) respectfully, good sound but limited driving features (ie no braking nor coasting)
  2. WheelTappers (Neil) ESU LokSound excellent sound + excellent prototypical driving features (ie braking, coasting, throttle hold, manual notching, etc)
  3. MrSoundGuy (Kieth Pearson) Zimo excellent sound + excellent prototypical driving features (ie braking, coasting, throttle hold, manual notching, etc)
  4. Make your own with LokProgrammer - But very steep learning curve and time consuming only saving €30 per decoder (buy blank decoders direct from Germany)

Just based on personal experience the ESU produced decoder sound projects for Murphy Models were the weakest in terms of prototypical driving feathers.  I'd recommend options 2 or 3 equally. I've used no 2 for most of my baby GMs and no 3 for some. Happy with both. Option 4 is hard work, but fun if you've got the time and inclination.

 

https://www.marksmodels.com/?pid=16734

http://www.wheeltappersdccsounds.co.uk/styled/index.html

http://www.mrsoundguy.co.uk

https://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/Digital/Decoder+with+sound/ESU-58449/gb/modell_311386.html

Edited by Noel
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Cheers for the clarification Noel. I picked up a used Lokprogrammer on eBay already and I can get used Loksound V4 units for €80 so that's the direction I'm heading in for those two classes as I will have quite a good few locos to equip.

I can live with "good but not the best" given the significant savings across a fleet of what will be around 30 or 40 locos in the end.

From my understanding the Lokprogrammer allows you to reformat any v4 project to v5 so even if I can no longer get the v4s I should have a fallback.

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3 hours ago, murphaph said:

Cheers for the clarification Noel. I picked up a used Lokprogrammer on eBay already and I can get used Loksound V4 units for €80 so that's the direction I'm heading in for those two classes as I will have quite a good few locos to equip.

I can live with "good but not the best" given the significant savings across a fleet of what will be around 30 or 40 locos in the end.

From my understanding the Lokprogrammer allows you to reformat any v4 project to v5 so even if I can no longer get the v4s I should have a fallback.

The V5 decoders are backward compatible with the V4 sound files and will work just fine. I've not even tried the V5's yet, I believe the sound is far superior and they have other features like variable brake settings but I get along fine with the V4's. I do have 2 V5's ordered for my 121's though.

In my opinion the Lokprogrammer is the very best option. Building an original sound file from scratch is very labour intensive and requires knowing the workings of the programmer and decoders inside out. I haven't even tried it myself. As Noel mentioned I made my own files but they are simply the Murphy Models OEM files. I simply replaced the engine with one from ESU's vast library of US sound files. These have all been updated with the improved driving features mentioned above. This is simple to do, basically a drag-and-drop operation. They have files with the EXACT engine model used in all of the Irish GM locos. In most cases they have MULTIPLE examples so you can have different sounding engines across your fleet. Like I said this is a simple thing to do and you could get to grips with this is a couple of afternoons.

The likes of Wheeltappers and DCCSoundguy make great products but there's an awful lot to be said for being able to do this yourself at home. Yes you save around €30 per decoder but when you order decoders with loaded files from the other suppliers you have to wait for them to arrive then you might not be entirely happy with what you get, and you're stuck with it unless you want to send it back to be reprogrammed. If you have the Lokprogrammer you just load a different file!

On a side note I'm a bit worried about the upcoming decoder for the 121. It's a V5 but I have a feeling it may not have the Full Throttle and Brake features. These have to be built into sound file itself and only the US sound files are built this way. They were created by the US end of the ESU operation and if you look at all of the European sound files which were created by the EU side of ESU you'll see none of them have these features.

Edited by irishthump

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That would be a shame indeed and if the rumour mill is correct and MM retain exclusive ownership (unlike the situation with the 071 & 201) then the modification using the Lokprogrammer based on US throttle controls would sadly not be an option.

 

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1 hour ago, irishthump said:

On a side note I'm a bit worried about the upcoming decoder for the 121. It's a V5 but I have a feeling it may not have the Full Throttle and Brake features. These have to be built into sound file itself and only the US sound files are built this way. They were created by the US end of the ESU operation and if you look at all of the European sound files which were created by the EU side of ESU you'll see none of them have these features.

They should be available in the decoders sold here... our A Class decoders will have those features. :) 

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1 minute ago, Garfield said:

They should be available in the decoders sold here... our A Class decoders will have those features. :) 

Lol I was just about to ask as I have 4 IR A classes on pre-order. 

Will these sound files be available for download on the ESU site or will they be proprietary and only available by purchasing a pre-programmed decoder from you guys?

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1 minute ago, murphaph said:

Lol I was just about to ask as I have 4 IR A classes on pre-order. 

Will these sound files be available for download on the ESU site or will they be proprietary and only available by purchasing a pre-programmed decoder from you guys?

The sound files are exclusive to us.

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1 hour ago, Garfield said:

They should be available in the decoders sold here... our A Class decoders will have those features. :) 

Hopefully the 121's will be the same. Not trying to scaremonger, just want the decoders to be as good as the models, be a shame for the sound to let the 121's down.

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Is there a viable "ESU only" approach to the 121s?

The prime mover should be no problem from a US donor project but what about the ancillary sounds? Can one easily swap out say the horn sounds?

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Been reading a lot about US donors for prime mover sounds on this and other threads, but it's not that simple really. The 567, 645 and 710 have a number of different cylinder configurations. For instance, I heard a custom done 071 sound project a while ago, and it didnt sound right. The sound for the turbo 645 was likely from an SD40-2, which has 16 cylinders, whereas the 071 only has 12. It's a slight difference but it is different. are the sounds taking from a 645 E3? F3? etc. 

567s are the same, the 121 and 141 are 8 cylinder, but very few (if any other than an SW900!) American locos had prime movers that small. An F unit has 16, and therefore there is subtle differences in the sound. I understand that this may not matter to some, but why go to all the trouble to make something that is wrong, rather than off the shelf that is right and put together by ESU themselves? I would just go for the bespoke chips for these and will be for my 121s I do fit sound to.

201s too. a 12 cylinder 710 as in a 201 sounds quite different to a 20 cylinder 710 in an SD80MAC. 

Of course the EMD fitted A Class sounds like nothing else due to its exhaust silencing, which is totally different to any other EMD engine'ed loco. This is why we went to such efforts to create the sound project for this. 

Anyway, just my tuppance worth on the issue. It's your model train at the end of the day!

Cheers!

Fran

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The ESU files for the 071 and 201 are the same as those preloaded on the MM branded decoders, are they not?

For the babies there never was an original MM decoder at all AFAIK so we're really only talking about "original part or spurious" for the A Class and the 121 if I'm not mistaken with the above assumption. I see an argument in both those cases for taking a custom (proprietary) made solution, especially for the A as it has been confirmed that the advanced driving features will be included. For this reason I'll probably opt for the IRM chips but for the 121 I'm still undecided.

 

Edited by murphaph

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1 hour ago, Warbonnet said:

Been reading a lot about US donors for prime mover sounds on this and other threads, but it's not that simple really. The 567, 645 and 710 have a number of different cylinder configurations. For instance, I heard a custom done 071 sound project a while ago, and it didnt sound right. The sound for the turbo 645 was likely from an SD40-2, which has 16 cylinders, whereas the 071 only has 12. It's a slight difference but it is different. are the sounds taking from a 645 E3? F3? etc. 

567s are the same, the 121 and 141 are 8 cylinder, but very few (if any other than an SW900!) American locos had prime movers that small. An F unit has 16, and therefore there is subtle differences in the sound. I understand that this may not matter to some, but why go to all the trouble to make something that is wrong, rather than off the shelf that is right and put together by ESU themselves? I would just go for the bespoke chips for these and will be for my 121s I do fit sound to.

201s too. a 12 cylinder 710 as in a 201 sounds quite different to a 20 cylinder 710 in an SD80MAC. 

Of course the EMD fitted A Class sounds like nothing else due to its exhaust silencing, which is totally different to any other EMD engine'ed loco. This is why we went to such efforts to create the sound project for this. 

Anyway, just my tuppance worth on the issue. It's your model train at the end of the day!

Cheers!

Fran

There are files for engine model used in the 121 and 141 locos (8 cylinder 567CR).

Same for the 181 (8 cylinder 645E non turbo)

There are 2 different sounding files with 645E3 turbo which  works for the 071.

They even list the files as being suitable for the EMD JL8, GL8, JL18 and JT22CW models in their descriptions.

The 201 is the only sticking point, there was a file for the 12 cylinder 710G3B which I downloaded for my lone 201 model. But that file does'nt appear to be there anymore. Again the 16 cylinder is there in several versions.

As Fran said they have many other files with different cylinder configurations and while there is a difference in sound between them its damn hard to hear in an OO gauge model. It might be more noticeable in the new V5 decoders as they have improved sound quality but it remains to be seen.

Again as Fran said there is no file available to match the A Class. I used a 567 which had a somewhat similar sound but it's not the same by any means.

 

 

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33 minutes ago, murphaph said:

For this reason I'll probably opt for the IRM chips but for the 121 I'm still undecided.

 

I don't see any reason to not get the 121 decoders even if you have the Lokprogrammer.  The engine and horn sounds are great from what we've heard in the short videos that were posted here and if they come with the Full Throttle features then happy days! If they don't then I'll most likely reprogram the decoders. Personally I'd rather have better driving characteristics than 100% authentic sounds, but that's just me.

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10 minutes ago, irishthump said:

There are files for engine model used in the 121 and 141 locos (8 cylinder 567CR).

Same for the 181 (8 cylinder 645E non turbo)

There are 2 different sounding files with 645E3 turbo which  works for the 071.

They even list the files as being suitable for the EMD JL8, GL8, JL18 and JT22CW models in their descriptions.

The 201 is the only sticking point, there was a file for the 12 cylinder 710G3B which I downloaded for my lone 201 model. But that file does'nt appear to be there anymore. Again the 16 cylinder is there in several versions.

As Fran said they have many other files with different cylinder configurations and while there is a difference in sound between them its damn hard to hear in an OO gauge model. It might be more noticeable in the new V5 decoders as they have improved sound quality but it remains to be seen.

Again as Fran said there is no file available to match the A Class. I used a 567 which had a somewhat similar sound but it's not the same by any means.

 

 

The craic starts when you compare a modern day 071 and an NIR 111. I'm convinced they sound slightly different due to the engine upgrades the 071s got, but I might be going mad (and I am slightly deaf to say the least, but maybe someone can confirm or deny this sound difference!) 

Cheers!

Fran

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3 minutes ago, irishthump said:

If they don't then I'll most likely reprogram the decoders.

What exactly do you mean here? Would you be left with anything of the MM sound file following this reprogramming?

 

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1 minute ago, Warbonnet said:

The craic starts when you compare a modern day 071 and an NIR 111. I'm convinced they sound slightly different due to the engine upgrades the 071s got, but I might be going mad (and I am slightly deaf to say the least, but maybe someone can confirm or deny this sound difference!) 

Cheers!

Fran

Have'nt a clue. That's too far down the bleedin' rabbit hole!

I know I loaded the 2 different sounds to my pair of 071's. One has a higher idle sound which I thought would be quiet plausible. If you watch any of the many videos on Youtube you'll notice that no two locos sound the same!

4 minutes ago, murphaph said:

 

What exactly do you mean here? Would you be left with anything of the MM sound file following this reprogramming?

 

No when you reprogram a decoder you need to completely replace the existing sound file. So you can't take a pre programmed decoder and simply change the engine or horn sounds and keep the rest. You need to load a complete file.

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Thx for the clarification. In that case (at least in my case with 6 121s on order) it probably makes sense to maybe get one MM decoder and try it for size. If I'm going to end up replacing the whole sound file for better driving features then I may as well program cheaper blank ESU decoders and spend the difference on more stock.

If you do reprogram your 121s where would you get the ancillary sounds (horn especially)?

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