JM Design CIE 20T Goods Brake Preview

[flange lubricator]

1 hour ago, minister_for_hardship said:

Seek and ye shall find.

CIE version is identical apart from 'CIE' on firehole door.

That’s very interesting Gleeson and O ‘Dea were a firm of ironmongers in Dublin , I think there was a connection to Jim O’Dea railway photographer 

 

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, Broithe said:

I went to a lot of schools, for logistical reasons - they were all madhouses, but in different ways.

One was in Brigg, just south of the Humber Bridge.

We had a two-hour art class every week, in a derelict shed across the road from the main school buildings.

In the middle of the floor was a stove, which we normally huddled round in an attempt to avoid hypothermia.

This was 1972, before the days when giant fireworks were widely available, but one of the lads had managed to procure a banger a  bit bigger than a milk bottle.

The banger was shoved into the stove as the art master, a decent bloke, came across the road.

He must have known something was going on, as we were all scattered around the far edges of the shed, as though we were waiting for the girls at a dance.

Two hours we sat there, waiting for the explosion, but nothing happened. 

Nothing.

It must have just burned away slowly...

Imagine if the smouldering embers had gone off that night when nobody was about, and blown the thing apart! I'd love to be a fly on the wall when the teachers were trying to work out what little so-and-so in Fourth Year had broken into the school after dark................

[Broithe]

37 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

Imagine if the smouldering embers had gone off that night when nobody was about, and blown the thing apart! I'd love to be a fly on the wall when the teachers were trying to work out what little so-and-so in Fourth Year had broken into the school after dark................

1, It was a Fifth Year.

2, They would have known exactly who it was (I could tell you his name now).

3, He was the only person I ever saw arrested in a class - twice.

[Mayner]

Thanks to everyone for their comments and photos of the stoves, the stove is likely to be an interesting challenge to my 3D designer more natural and organic in shape than the rest of the van

Broithe's comments about Brigg reminds me of the scene from the "Biderbech Trilogy" with the East/West German style border crossing when Trevor & Jill see off a visitor at a foggy Humber Bridge.

The 20T goods brakes were more popular with the guards than the more modern 30T versions, they were supposed to have a better brake and being more smoother riding.

The interior of of 20T vans with double planking and a wooden roof would have been less subject to extreme heat and cold and more comfortable that the all steel 30T vans with no wall or roof insulation.

[jhb171achill]

I travelled very short distances in several guards vans. Steel ones, in all reality, were an absolute endurance test, even for a diehard railway enthusiast!

What a LONG distance must have been like - say Limerick - Sligo on a bad winters day......gawd only knows!

[Broithe]

8 hours ago, Mayner said:

Broithe's comments about Brigg reminds me of the scene from the "Biderbech Trilogy" with the East/West German style border crossing when Trevor & Jill see off a visitor at a foggy Humber Bridge.

I actually watched the Beiderbecke Trilogy during my 14 day confinement in the shed in April. It remains some of the best telly ever made. I may watch it again shortly.

In my time at Brigg, the bridge was in the very early stages of construction - at that time, Hull might as well have been in Norway - in fact, I've only ever been there once, and that was just last year, to see an obscure Japanese band at the charismatic New Adelphi, with its car park courtesy of the Luftwaffe.

The Humber Bridge is much more 'visitable' than the Severn crossings, there is a decent park at the northern end and pedestrian access is very good, although I was genuinely concerned at the possibility of losing my glasses to the wind on the main span...

 

[DiveController]

13 hours ago, Mayner said:

Thanks to everyone for their comments and photos of the stoves, the stove is likely to be an interesting challenge to my 3D designer more natural and organic in shape than the rest of the van

 

Maybe take the prototype through security at the airport  (whenever that will happen again!) and get your hands on that backscatter image for your CAD guy? 

 

[Mayner]

Approaching another milestone in the design process as we finalise the CAD work before we produce the prototype for the production model.

 

 

There are a few final tweaks to be made to the CAD work including trimming the stove pipe to fit within the roof and adjustments to the buffers and brake gear and fitting the side lamps.

All going well we expect to have a pre-production sample ready in approx two to three weeks.

[flange lubricator]

Looks fantastic.

[Wexford70]

43 minutes ago, Mayner said:

 

There are a few final tweaks to be made to the CAD work including trimming the stove pipe to fit within the roof and adjustments to the buffers and brake gear and fitting the side lamps.

Any chance of having the lamps functioning? 

Edited July 26, 2020 by Wexford70

[TimO]

This looks fabulous, lots of fine detail.
Are you planning torpedo style roof vents as shown on the prototype earlier in this topic?

[Mayner]

14 hours ago, Wexford70 said:

Any chance of having the lamps functioning? 

Our original plan was to design a van that could be retro-fitted with functioning lamps.

Fitting the van with working lamps would have added considerably to the cost and complexity of the model.

At this stage we have designed the lamps as a solid due to problems in designing a hollow lamp housing with adequate wall thickness.

TimO

We are not planning to fit the van with torpedo vents, there appears to have been a lot of detail variation between van in later years the photo of 23544 is the only 20T van that I have seen with torpedo vents. 

Edited July 26, 2020 by Mayner

[DiveController]

I think the one at Cultra may have a torpedo vent but that may well have changed in preservation. Hard to find many photos of the roofs, what was typical on there? 

Edited July 27, 2020 by DiveController

[jhb171achill]

The one at Cultra is of a later build, I think?

[Mayner]

The CIE 20T brake vans are listed in the 23500-23664 series introduced in 1950 in both "Irish Railways Today" and "Locos and Rolling Stock of CIE and NIR".

There appears to be considerable detail difference between individual vans as many appear to have been rebuilt with pressed metal lookouts and planking obscured/replaced with aluminium or ply sheeting as vans were re-built during the 1960s.

The model is based on a broadside photo of 23586 that appeared in an article on CIE/GSWR Brake Vans the February 1977 edition of Model Railways.

Its likely that pressed metal duckets and aluminium/ply sheeting was fitted on an ad-hock basis when body work on individual vans required major repair/replacement, 23508 one of the earliest of the series appears to have been re-built at some stage with metal duckets and body sheeting, while retaining vertical veranda planking.

 

Edited July 27, 2020 by Mayner

[leslie10646]

John

You'll never get this one right, as the variants seemed endless - one reason why michael and I opted for the older GSWR van!

I've e-mailed you my files and phots.

Looks great, by the way - obviously I'll take one for sure!

[DiveController]

Regardless the van looks great and I'll definitely be taking a couple!  

 

Early livery?

Edited July 28, 2020 by DiveController

[jhb171achill]

5 hours ago, DiveController said:

Regardless the van looks great and I'll definitely be taking a couple!

Early livery?

Always plain grey up to about 1971. For the last few years (by which time few were left) all brown.

”Wasp stripes” on ducket ftom sbout 1964/5, thus being plain grey before.

”Flying snail” until c. 1963/4, with “roundel” gradually replacing this during the 1960s, and continuing into the post-1971 “brown years”.

[murphaph]

When was the very last one of these still in service? I am into the IR era so probably a no go for me but I would take any excuse to help another RTR supplier get established! The more the merrier.

[jhb171achill]

You’re looking at 1975/6.

[flange lubricator]

22 minutes ago, murphaph said:

When was the very last one of these still in service? I am into the IR era so probably a no go for me but I would take any excuse to help another RTR supplier get established! The more the merrier.

The would have survived on the beet campaign up until late 1970’s 

[murphaph]

Thanks chaps.

[Mayner]

Preview of the latest version of the CAD work for the brake van. 

 

 

Its planned to supply the van with NorthYard NMRA RP25 Code  110 plated brass wheels with acetal centres on blackened brass axles set to OO gauge and Bachmann tension lock couplers with NEM pocket.

The next stage is to produce a SLA printed pre-production prototype to check fit and durability of parts before progressing to the production version.

 

 

Edited August 1, 2020 by Mayner

[murphaph]

Looks fantastic. Will it be straightforward to regauge like other Irish RTR stock of late?

[Noel]

I’d buy a half dozen of those. Looks great so far. 

[DiveController]

They're really beginning to look good now, John!

I'm in for a pair maybe more when a price point is available. Will they be decorated or just printed? Same question re conversion to 21mm?

Thanks, K

[Mayner]

The brake van is designed to run on  OO or 21mm gauge track.

We are looking at a number of options for manufacture including 3D printing and vacuum castings locally (NZ) or the Far East, at this stage we are unable to confirm whether the model will be produced as an un-decorated kit or a decorated model.

 

[DiveController]

Looking very well, John!