Mol_PMB

A couple more photos of the cut-down wagons, from Jonathan Allen on Flickr: At Ballymena around 1980: MEDs 26 & 27 in Ballymena | MED 26 was last used in July 197… | Flickr At Derry in 1980, there is also another one cut down to a flat here: Londonderry Waterside - "old" station, March 1980 | Interior… | Flickr

Many thanks! It seems they were first introduced in August 1978 and they were certainly in use through the 1980s. My gut feel is that they fell out of use in the early 1990s? The number series is CIEU 160####, and normally the last digit would be a check digit, so we may be able to estimate how many there were based on the known numbers. I do intend to buy a few, although I don't presently have any flat wagons to put them on! Would you consider printing an alternative door design with vertical ribs? Not too much of an issue though, the doors are normally hidden when they're loaded onto wagons, which is why it's hard to find good photos of the doors! They actually seem quite camera-shy, or perhaps not many people are container nerds like me... Plenty here at North Wall in 1985 (Andrew Pullar photo): One on the left here, pic dated 1982 from Brian Flannigan: I don't think any were blue in service, here's a 2016 pic from Kieran Marshall: A fair number here in 1991, photo from Adrian Nicholls:

If my experiments with 21mm gauge work out OK, then I am formulating a plan to build a small shunting layout loosely based on the sidings at Lisburn, set in the late 1970s. Rolling stock would be mainly NIR engineers' stock (hence my interest in the former spoil wagons and courtaulds wagons) with an IRM Hunslet and perhaps a DH as motive power. The location allows CIE locos and rolling stock to visit. It would also be possible to include parts of Lisburn passenger station in the background, perhaps with a stationary passenger train. On the other hand, I could use the opposite viewpoint with just a grassy bank in the background, and then with a change of rolling stock it could become the goods yard at a rural CIE station somewhere else. I'm thinking of an overall size not much more than 4' x 1' to keep it manageable. However, I might come up with a different idea in due course!

From Jason on Flickr, this is a long way from the rails! From Steve Rabone: https://www.steverabone.com/RailwayPhotographs/ireland_1984.htm There are some other nice container pics in that album, including 4 different types of brew!

Here's a photo from Jonathan Allen showing 4 of them in June 1979. 3 UNILOAD and a grey one only partly visible: https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/52048734512/

I've uploaded some of my photos showing these, a few actually in service and a load used as stores etc.

The nearest container is in plain tan with a very small black roundel. The one beyond that is in the UNILOAD scheme. Beyond that, a rusty grey one: The same row of containers seen from the other side: A closer view of the rusty grey one: This one is tan, with a medium size black roundel, and a TRANSTRACK logo vertically down the middle: The end doors of a grey one: A pair of UNILOAD: Another pair of UNILOAD, with a plain tan one behind: Closeup of the stencilled number on the end of the tan one with a small roundel: Not the best photo, but you don't see many pictures of the door end. When loaded on wagons they tended to place the doors facing each other to reduce the risk of pilferage: Latterly these ended up being used as stores all over the place: This one with its doors missing gives us a view of the interior: That's my own photos done. I'll have a search on Flickr and see if I can find some more from other people. Can anyone confirm when these were first introduced and how many there were? The number series is CIEU 160#### and nationality/type code IRL 1000.

The topic of CIE's 10' containers came up in another thread, so I thought I would scan and share some of my photos of these, in a variety of paint and lettering schemes. We'll start with this childhood memory of the container terminal at Ennis in the late 1980s, sorry for the damaged print: On the 47'6" flat, the end two containers are in the classic 'UNILOAD' livery (tan container, white band with black roundel and red UNILOAD). One of the middle two is in grey with a tan roundel (as used on traditional goods vans) while the other is plain tan with a small black roundel. In the 1968-69 edition of 'Jane's Freight Containers', the section on Ireland includes the following: Cranage: Heavy gantry cranes at Tolka Quay, Cork and Rathkeale were erected in 1968 to facilitate the use of containers. Irish Ferryways is the largest and most experienced container company in Ireland. Irish Ferryways is formed by Coras Iompair Eireann and Containerway and Roadferry Ltd, the British-based unit-load operator in Europe. Irish Ferryways handle container freight from Ireland (Dublin, Drogheda or New Ross) to Britain, and onwards to all European countries. Their new terminal at Tolka Quay, Dublin, is the most modern in Ireland. It has advanced equipment for handling all types of containers - general, refigerated, flats and bulk liquid. CIE owns 598 containers and have a few regular container trains. They also act as hauliers for large companies, like Guinness who own their own containers. Here's one of Ernie's photos showing a couple of early ISO containers at Limerick in 1969, a BR Freightliner stacked on top of what Also in 1969 at Ballybrophy, a Freightliner container visible in the background: By the 1970-71 edition, the Eire section of 'Jane's Freight Containers' filled six large pages, with B+I line and Bellferry featuring alongside Irish Ferryways and CIE. CIE now owned more than 1500 containers. The following year, the 1971-72 edition mentioned the introduction of bogie container flats in 1970, and gave a fleet list of CIE ISO containers as follows: Dry cargo 20x8x8: 200 Insulated 20x8x8: 100 Refrigerated 20x8x8: 3 Flats 20x8: 335 There were also non-ISO containers of various types, and some prototype ISO hopper containers are pictured, but no 10' containers were listed. The following year, 100 20x8x8.5 Tiltainers (i.e. curtain-sided) had been added to the fleet, but there were still no 10' boxes listed. Here's one of the Tiltainers at Limerick Junction in 1974: I then have a gap in my Janes collection until 1982. That edition does picture a pair of Uniload 10' containers on a flat wagon, and the total CIE container fleet is given as 2035 (not itemised). I was hoping that a trawl through my copies of Janes would give me an introduction date for the 10' containers and a total quantity, but sadly not! Anyway, to the photos...

Absolutely, there are several variants and they could also form the basis for 4-wheel timber wagons and 4-wheel Guinness wagons.

Ballast laid dry, carefully using a teaspoon and a flat brush to get the right profile: Then sprayed with a mist of water (with a drop of washing up liquid) to dampen the ballast, followed by applying dilute PVA with an eye-dropper: This will take a few days to set, so I'll have to be patient!

There are plenty of places in Switzerland where metre gauge lines run through the streets, sometimes with freight trains too!

Now, let's look at the Courtaulds wagons that were cut down for use by the NIR Civil Engineers. Here are some images harvested from other threads on this forum. C352 (ex C16) in bauxite and another in pale grey, at Antrim in 1978. Photo by jhb171achill: A survivor at Downpatrick: Here's another photo of C378 at Downpatrick from their website; both the Downpatrick Courtaulds wagons have since been scrapped: C355, another survivor for a while: When rebuilt by he UTA for Courtaulds their old NCC and GNR numbers were replaced by a sequence C1 to C300 (probably C = Courtaulds). The first significant thing we can determine from these photos is that the wagons were renumbered again when they were cut down. Confusingly this was also with a C prefix in the NIR Civil Engineers' series. The photos above show the following numbers on cut-down wagons: UTA C16 renumbered as NIR C352 C355 C378 These seem to follow on from the number series of the spoil wagons converted to ballast hoppers (highest number known is C344, see https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/17428-nir-ballast-hoppers-former-spoil-wagons/ for more details) If the number sequence was continuous (which is not certain) then there may have been as many as 30 wagons cut down. However, it seems that only about half a dozen lasted more than a few years. Here are some photos from Jonathan Allen on Flickr showing these wagons in use. A rake of 5, hauled by DH3 in 1975: https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/49578969577 https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/39299741384 An MPD triplet hauling several of these wagons and a brake van in 1973: https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/39002620724 I think there are at least 7 in the sidings at GVS in 1975, in this photo: https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/49580818871 All the cut-down wagons in these photos seem to be the former NCC type, none are the GNR type. The NCC wagons certainly had a (marginally) more advanced brake gear which might have influenced their selection. Some 1920s NCC wagons were certainly among them, from jhb171achill's recollections of their plates. It might seem odd that the 1920s wagons survived when there were many near-identical 1940s wagons available, but many wagons built in wartime were made of cheap materials such as thin planks of poor quality wood, and the newer wagons may have deteriorated more quickly. It shouldn't be too hard to cut down a Parkside kit (or an Airfix/Dapol RTR wagon) to represent this distinctive wagon type.

Freight trams have run in Switzerland and Germany in recent years, so it's not impossible in the modern era. However, I think the two main operations (Dresden and Zurich) have stopped recently. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CarGoTram http://www.tautonline.com/zurichs-cargo-tram/ Just make a tram with a normal LUAS-like cab each end, and the rest with a flat deck and mounting points for Guinness cages. The reason there's only three foot passengers on the ferry is precisely because of the lack of effective public transport at the Dublin end! Also the 'rail and sail' deals are harder to find and poorer value than they used to be, making flying cheaper.

I suspect not much, the repainted ones were pretty short-lived in freight service, and there was only a year or so between them being overhauled (1964-5), and UTA pulling out of freight (1965). They lasted longer in engineers' use. But there is that photo (in the post above) of one in a mixed freight on the GNR(I) main line, so it's possible!

Now, I'll consider the other Courtaulds wagons, that weren't the NCC type. There weren't so many of these, and they're not so easy to find good photos of. Firstly we'll look at a photo of a Courtaulds coal train, this is scanned from the book 'The UTA in Colour' (Young) page 71. The photo is dated July 1966, which was after the wagon rebuild programme was completed. Nevertheless, the train is not fully comprised of rebuilt wagons painted bauxite! The first 3 wagons are grey, or unpainted, and the first one is an old GNR 4-planker. The next two are hard to make out behind the steam. The fourth wagon is an overhauled one, painted bauxite, but lacking the angled plank at the bottom of the door. The door bangers are also mounted lower down than those on the next 4 wagons which are all of the ex-NCC type discussed in my previous post. The Courtaulds wagon in this freight is very obvious in its freshly-applied bauxite livery, but it doesn't have an angled plank at the bottom of the door. Photo dated 23 May 1964, from Ernie on Flickr: Another of Ernie's photos shows several Courtaulds wagons at Coleraine in 1968, apparently in use for loco coal after Courtaulds had stopped using rail. The nearest wagon isn't an NCC wagon, it doesn't an angled plank on the door, and it has 6 planks. There is only one column of bolts on the end of the corner plates. This is distinctly different from the NCC wagons shown in the previous post. It's hard to see much detail of the other wagons in this photo. The contemporary literature says that the Courtaulds wagons were converted from NCC and GNR(I) wagons, so is this alternative type of Courtaulds wagon ex-GNR(I)? From what we can see they certainly match the characteristics of the GNR 6-plank wagons, as shown in these photos from Ernie on Flickr. In each case we're looking at the taller open wagons: So I think I've managed to conclude what many people knew already, but hopefully the illustrations help with the details and dimensions of these wagons. For modelling purposes, there have been several different models of the GNR 6-plank open (which was almost identical to the GSR version). These may not all be available now? From Provincial Wagons: From Studio Scale Models: And from Pre-Grouping Railways Any of these could have a coat of bauxite paint to become a Courtaulds wagon. What I can't confirm at present is any numbers in the C series that were applied to the ex-GNR wagons. For the ex-NCC wagon, it's not quite so easy. A good RTR starting point is the Airfix/Dapol 10' wheelbase 5-plank wagon. The NCC wagons were on a wooden underframe (rather than steel) and were 7" wider, but this isn't far off. Originally they had 5 planks like this, but were later re-planked with 4 broader planks (the same total height). The major omission styling-wise on this model is the angled bottom plank on the door. For a kit, I think the Parkside PC25 is probably the best bet for the body: https://peco-uk.com/products/lner-12ton-5-plank-open-wagon?variant=7435673632802 Again, it has a steel underframe which isn't ideal. It would probably be fairly straightforward to swap the underframe for a wooden one such as on Parkside PC61. Both have LNER-style brake gear which would need replacing with the Morton style using parts from the bits box. In the next post I'll look at the wagons cut down by NIR for engineers' use.

My pack of code 75 flat-bottom rail arrived this morning so I have given it a coat of primer, soldered on some power feeds and spiked it down to the sleepers. Then I thought I'd better test the electrical connections before ballasting, and that was also an opportunity to test 007. Here it is ticking over on the photo plank: A view along the plank showing the track construction and the gentle curve. All my rolling stock is presently 'narrow' OO gauge but I plan to convert a few things to 21mm broad gauge, starting with a wagon or two. To give an idea of what will fit on the plank. here's 007 with a Cravens coach, and with a rake of three trucks. So it's long enough to pose a loco with the first bit of a train, to provide some context. Looking at these photos, 007 is crying out for some weathering, so that's another job to tackle in the next few weeks! But first, I'll get the track ballasted and once that's set I can make more progress with the grass and gorse.

A fascinating view across Waterford yard. All those cattle wagons (and a few horseboxes)! I think I can see a few cattle wagons without rooves? It's 1956 and wagons with the Bulleid triangulated underframe are a tiny proportion of what we see in this photo.

How about another run of the 42' bogie flats, but this time with 3-piece bogies? Apologies for the quality of this image scanned from an old print, but it does show the original bogie type on the cleaner 42' bogie flat on the left, while the loaded flat is a 47'6" example with Y33 bogies. Some 42' wagons still had these bogies well into the IE 'plug and socket' era and I can scan some better photos if it helps. Also note the 3 different liveries of the 10' containers, including a grey one with tan roundel. I don't think IRM have done 10' containers yet? Again, I have some detail photos of these in various other liveries too.

I wonder if IRM are on holiday in northern Portugal? Under the bonnet, the CP 1400s have a lot in common with the NIR Hunslets, and are still in regular use.

I’m not sure if I’ve bought myself a bargain or a load of junk! MIR bubble kit for a tenner. I think it’s complete and unstarted. Building this ought to encourage IRM to make another batch… https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/387600221777?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=JJ5k5JepSVS&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=PWnBnL0RQpq&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY At the very least it should give me a CIE vac-braked underframe, and the proceeds to a charity. Mol

Now, let's look at the contemporary open wagons being built for the LMS on mainland, and compare them to the NCC ones. The NCC wagons built at Darlington in 1942 were to LMS diagram D2073, as shown in the previous post. Compared to similar standard-gauge LMS wagons they were 7" wider throughout, as if the design had simply been cut and shut with 7" inserted along the centreline. This extract from the LMS Wagons book shows the difference: The LMS had a lot of variants of wooden-bodied 5-plank open wagon on the standard gauge: D1666: 1923-1930, 9'0" wheelbase, wooden underframe, unfitted. D1895: 1934-1939, 10'0" wheelbase, wooden underframe, unfitted. D1896: 1934, 10'0" wheelbase, wooden underframe, unfitted, no curb rails. D1667: 1924-1930, 9'0" wheelbase, steel underframe, unfitted . D1892: 1934-1939, 10'0" wheelbase, steel underframe, some vac fitted and some unfitted. D2072: 1942-1943, 10'0" wheelbase, unfitted. D2094: 1943-1946, 10'0" wheelbase, steel underframe, unfitted, no curb rails. D2151: ex MoS, 10'0" wheelbase, steel underframe, unfitted. The NCC wagons were most similar to D1895 lot 1118, the only difference I can see is the width. D1892 had a very similar body style, but was on a steel chassis.

Following on from the previous post, we can look in more detail at the type of Courtaulds wagon that I think is the ex-NCC variant. The most obvious spotting feature of these is the angled plank at the bottom of the door, but the other features listed at the end of my previous post are also apparent on all these wagons. Some of these photos are in colour and confirm the reddish bauxite colour on the body and solebars; the underframe ironwork just looks dirty and rusty. From Jonathan Allen on Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/25996535758 https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/27914640039 https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/39837409952 This one from Jonathan Allen is particularly interesting because it seems to be entirely unpainted except for a small panel under the number: And these images from elsewhere on this forum: This from the Downptrick website: The only difference I've observed within this group of wagons is the shape of the end stanchions. They can be of L or T section, and they are all tapered at the top but the taper can be long or short. They all have 4 relatively broad planks, the second down from the top is a little narrower than the others. So, what did these look like before they were overhauled, and what numbers did they carry then? Looking at photos, UTA 2255 seems like a good candidate. It has all the right features except that it has 5 planks instead of 4. But these planks are narrower than on the Courtaulds wagons. The UTA was replacing planks on wagons in the early 1960s, even before the Courtaulds overhaul programme. The taller open wagon in this rake has 5 planks on the side (just like the photo above) but it looks like the woodwork on the ends has been renewed with 4 planks - certainly the top plank is broader than those on the sides: Again, the taller wagon in this rake has the right characteristics, and this one has 4 planks: Finally, here's UTA 2329 on the edge of the photo which is also a 4-planker with broad planks. Note in all of these old photos the height difference when compared to the low GNR 4-plank wagons surrounding the bigger NCC wagons: This drawing was posted in another thread here by @Dhu Varren, who wrote "Here is a drawing for an NCC 12T open wagon built about 1942 by the LNER to replace air raid damaged stock. 150 were built." Although the diagram isn't fully detailed, this looks very similar to the NCC wagons that were later rebuilt for Courtaulds. It has 5 planks which were later replaced with 4 broader planks. Some remaining works plates on the late survivors of the Courtaulds wagons showed NCC and dates between 1922 and 1924, which is considerably earlier than this drawing. My hypothesis is when replacement wagons were needed in wartime, the NCC sent a drawing of an existing type (the 1920s batch of wagons) and asked for more of the same, so the 1940s drawing is probably applicable to both. By the 1940s, the LMS in GB had switched entirely to steel underframes, but the LNER were still building wooden wagon underframes. If the NCC had sent an old drawing for a wooden underframe, that may explain why these wagons were built for the NCC by the LNER, rather than the LMS. It's possible that the subtle differences in the end stanchion shape are characteristic of the 1920s and 1940s batches, but I don't have enough information to confirm this. In this thread... https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/5221-goods-wagons-in-the-fifties-and-a-uta-example/?do=findComment&comment=86563 ...there are some excellent memories from @airfixfan and @jhb171achill relating to the Courtaulds wagons, including this comment: "Pleased to here that manuscript of Volume 3 is in secure hands. Have been going through what is published on this issue which is very little or vague and even incorrect. Some books state that the Courtalds traffic ended in 1968 and my own memories put it around 1967. The IRRS JOURNAL 44 October 1967 states that the signal box at Mount was closed on 25th May 1967 with signals and connections removed. From memory the UTA had tried and failed to end this contract in the mid 1960s. This is why they had to overhaul a large number of wagons for mainly this traffic which is supported by Journal 36 February 1965 which refers to 300 wagons being overhauled by the UTA at this time. These wagons would have a C prefix and be painted bauxite red with 200 wagons required for the Courtalds traffic and 100 wagons needed for ballast/dept. work. In the UTA IN COLOUR book on page 71 there is a photo of this coal train from July 1966. So it is clear that this traffic had ended by early 1967 and the 2 Peckett tanks were sold for scrap in 1968 and I remember an article about them in the Belfast Telegraph in that year which I could not find today having just moved recently! Any more detail appreciated." In a subsequent post I'll look at the train referred to, and then consider the other types of Courtauld wagon.

My thread on the NIR ballast hoppers converted from spoil wagons seemed to generate some interest, so I thought I'd start something similar on the 'Courtaulds' wagons. Hopefully people will find something interesting here too, please feel free to contribute! Some of this will be based on threads already on this forum, but with the information brought together in one place here. I have also drawn on various other published sources as well as photos on Flickr and elsewhere online. Relevant existing threads include: https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/8174-nir-open-wagons/#comment-127202 https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/7587-ncc-courtaulds-open-wagon/#comment-120929 https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/5221-goods-wagons-in-the-fifties-and-a-uta-example/#comment-86029 https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/8470-bncr-ncc-wagon-numberplates/#comment-174614 https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/3931-pictures-taken-in-19778-on-cie-system/#comment-61773 Firstly, a bit of history that we probably know already but is worth summarising. The UTA was formed in 1948 to run public transport in Northern Ireland, but it took a while before everything came under its wing. As far as railways were concerned, the BCDR was in at the start and the NCC was merged in 1949. The GNR(I)/(B) followed later in 1958 and the other lines generally closed before becoming part of the UTA. From the late 1950s the UTA were trying to reduce their rail freight services and dieselise the passenger services with multiple units. There was no plan for investment in new wagons or locos for general freight services within Northern Ireland. This then is the context for a an item in Irish Railfans' news of July 1964 (which can be read at: https://anyflip.com/dtnj/eygt/basic ) "In May, the renewal of some 300 open wagons commenced at Adelaide. 200 of these are for Courtaulds coal traffic which the UTA are unable to abandon and 100 more are for the UTA’s own use. They are painted in a bauxite colour and numbered from C1. Adelaide Yard, which had been almost cleared of derelict wagons by March last, is again filled with wagons for scrap. " 'Irish Railways Today' (Pender & Richards; 1967) states "A series of open wagons, numbered C1-C300, were rebuilt in 1965 and painted a bauxite red; These are ex-GNR 10-ton standard open wagons, and ex-NCC 12-ton opens." It also says "Freight traffic on rail in Northern Ireland officially ceased in 1965..." but this appears to refer to 'common carrier' internal freight - cross-border services continued, as did the Courtaulds traffic (only for a couple of years) and engineers' trains. These sources do not correlate well with the stated history of the Courtaulds wagons which were preserved at Downpatrick: https://www.downrail.co.uk/rolling-stock/uta-c32/ - My belief is that the two 1960s publications are more likely to be correct. This photo from Ernie on Flickr is dated 1961 and gives an idea of the state of UTA wagonry at the time (this was before any wagons were overhauled for Courtaulds). They look pretty run-down with remnants of several liveries, but have been patched up with new woodwork, usually left unpainted. The ironwork has gone to rust. Here's a photo of a freshly-overhauled Courtaulds wagon, thanks to Ernie on Flickr: This photo clearly shows the key features of a Courtaulds wagon. Or at least one type of Courtaulds wagon - they weren't all the same! Remember that some were former NCC and some former GNR, and there may have been variants within those two fleets as well. I'll try to explore these differences in this thread. Also in this photo we can see two former GNR 4-plank wagons. Although the Courtaulds wagon also has 4 planks, they are wider planks than on the GNR wagons, so the Courtaulds wagon body is the height of a 5-planker. Returning to the Courtaulds wagon in this photo, let's look at some of the other distinctive features. I believe this is a former NCC wagon as it contains more British features than Irish ones: Morton brakegear, with 2 brake shoes on one side of the wagon, operated by levers both sides. RCH standard buffers Angled plank at the bottom of the door Twin door bangers Corner plates with 2 columns of bolts on each side Wooden underframe Side and end vertical stanchions made of angle iron Apart from the wooden underframe, all these features are different from the adjacent GNR wagons which are more typical of Irish practices. Subsequent posts will explore the details of the wagons and attempt to work out what was overhauled and what survived into NIR days. There are actually quite a lot of clues in the available photos...

A bit more progress on the plank today. I've glued down the sleeper bases, and my gorse is now in flower (a few months early). For the gorse, I mixed up some creamy dilute PVA with a drop of washing up liquid, and used a flat brush to dab this on the tips of the stalks (see previous post): Then I sprinkled on some yellow ground foam. The first one I did looked a bit bright, so for the others I blended in some buff as well. I put them in warm place to dry, and then shook off any loose yellow bits. Here's a couple positioned on the cutting side to give an idea of the effect: This photo also nicely shows the subtle variations in sleeper colour. I'm a bit stuck now until I get the rails, because I want to do the rails and then the ballast before I start adding static grass and foliage. Meanwhile I'm trying to decide whether the railway boundary at the top of the cutting will be marked by a post-and-wire fence, or a dry-stone wall.

I seem to have overlooked this image from Ernie showing a rake of ballast hoppers in 1983. C291 is the nearest one and the second one may be C293: