Mol_PMB

A nice closeup side view of the headlights on 156, in this photo from Jonathan Allen: https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/46038979472/in/album-72177720295641846 I also found a photo of 160 so fitted. So at least the following 7 locos: 002, 154, 155, 156, 158, 159, 160.

Excellent work - it's always frustrating to pull apart things that were 'finished' but I'm sure it will be worth it for the improved reliability.

I agree. If you look at my second photo in the first post of the thread you can also see the lagging there, where a quarter of the outer cladding is missing. Originally, they seem to have been intended for tar and bitumen, which would have been loaded hot. On the sixth photo on my first post, just under the wording 'no naked flame' I think those two pipe fittings would have connected to a steam-heating coil within the tank. So if the train took too long to reach its destination and the tar 'set', you could liquify it again with steam.

I made a start on the second corrugated wagon tonight, and experimented to see if I could remove the buffers without destroying them, so that I could re-use them but positioned at the correct spacing. After a few false starts I think I am getting somewhere with this. This is the technique I used. First, use a tiny jewellers' screwdriver to push the buffer head out from the rear. If you have enough hands you can pull on the other end too. When it comes out, try not to lose the buffer head or the tiny spring. Then insert a piece of 2mm diameter tube or rod into the front of the buffer guide. Wiggle it around gently, and hopefully the buffer guide will come loose from the headstock: I then added some plastic strip to the outer edge of the moulded buffer base, and when that was stuck well I sanded down the faces. I marked the new holes (25mm centres) and drilled them. However, there was quite a recess where the old buffer holes were, so I inserted some 1mm plastic rod with a dab of filler round it. I'm waiting for that to set before I sand it down flush. The back of the buffers will need to be smoothed off too, before I glue them back on. If I can make this work, then it should also work on the H vans and I might be tempted to order some more!

The ballast stuck well, and so this afternoon I gave the track a light airbrushing to blend in the colours. Then I set to work with the static grass machine. I started with some patches of dark green, the same as I used on the gorse bushes, and the bushes themselves will be planted in these areas so the under-layer of dark green gives them a bit more depth. Then I covered almost all the rest in a paler green grass, leaving just a few gaps where I'll put some other type of bush or bramble. This now needs the glue to set overnight before I hoover off the excess and start applying localised additions of different coloured grass and flock. Anyway, it's starting to look the part now that it's not entirely brown!

Ah, many thanks John. I had got the impression from this thread that you had ceased production, and the website is down too. https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/16213-last-orders/ Are your models 21mm-friendly? What do you still have available or to order?

Nearest I've found so far for your coal containers, they appear to come in several variants and different liveries! https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/51699006747 https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/51699802461

A nice rake of six cut-down wagons, with one unmodified one as well, in this 1979 photo from Jonathan Allen on Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/50768030252 Most have had a repaint in NIR pale grey, but a couple are still in bauxite.

Regarding the nearly-black livery of the H van in this photo of Ernie's that we discussed before: Here's another photo, also at Cork Albert Quay, which also shows a van in nearly-black livery, but this time we can see all of it, lower left. It has a green snail. There are also a couple more in nearly-black, on the distant right of the image. They are very much darker than the normal 'dark grey' which can be seen on some other wagons in the photo. I wonder if this nearly-black livery was a West Cork thing? Maybe they had some steam loco paint left over? At first glance they all look like an H vans but on closer inspection the nearer van is one of the earlier batch on a conventional (non-triangulated) underframe, in the 17012-17211 series built in 1946. The long brake lever and the lack of a plate below the door help to identify it. Like these two (also from Ernie): Incidentally, one of these would provide an interesting variation for a model - perhaps an IRM H van body on a conventional chassis. Which would free up a triangulated underframe to go under a palvan. Hmmm...

Definitely. 'Rails Through Tipperary' page 24 shows a later view from the same angle.

Some more photos of these tank containers, from Jonathan Allen on Flickr. They're mostly in the background but if you click on the links and then zoom in, a lot of detail is visible including lettering variations and numbers: https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/51572604289 https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/51571111947 https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/51571921546

In the first photo, as well as the ubiquitous vans, there's a nice tar/bitumen tank in the background. These were numbered 23801-23890 and delivered in 1953/54. They had a 'British' underframe length of 17'6" rather than the Irish standard of 16'11". Also the flat wagon in the left foreground is interesting, with its low sides, some of these are seen in this photo from the National Library of Ireland on Flickr, mixed in with other types of flat wagon:

Sounds like a good plan to me - there’s no other reasonable approach short of a total scratchbuild. Paint them the right colour and put appropriate containers in, of course. CPWs are much later than my interests but I do recall the lengthy saga of their introduction. I look forward to seeing the results! Mol

Oh dear, I don't want to rub salt in a wound or upset IRM! I was trying to show how to make them right rather than complaining about them being wrong. I'm hoping that from the pack of 3 wagons I may be able to salvage 4 of the supplied buffers in adequate condition to re-fit to one of the wagons, with the other two having the new larger buffers. But that may be optimistic! I've pre-ordered some H vans and they will be much more of a challenge as they didn't have their buffers replaced with the larger ones. Anyway, the next task on the corrugated wagons is weathering, which is always fun. Bring on the filth! Mol

Well, many thanks to Leslie for checking the GNR diagram books, but the 1954 cement van drawings aren't there! Perhaps they were built after the last book was printed? I'd have thought they ought to be in the CIE diagram book but that doesn't seem to be in the public domain. So I'm still looking...

Thanks for pointing out that they are different, so I definitely need one of yours! The Provincial Wagons version is this type (Brian Flannigan photo on Flickr): Whereas the IRM version is this type (Kieran Marshall photo on Flickr): The same at first glance but when you look closely there are a whole host of differences in the doors, the ribs, the fork slots...

I have applied to (re-)join the IRRS but my membership details are taking a while to come through. Once that's happened, it's still not clear whether I will be able to access such documents readily. I was hoping someone might have a copy of the relevant page handy!

I'm planning to make a model of one of the GNR/CIE 'bagged cement' box vans based on the Parkside kit for a BR plywood van. I know this is a well-trodden path! It will be 21mm gauge so I'll need to move the solebars and buffers out. But I'd like to check whether there are any other dimensional adjustments needed. For example, are the body dimensions the same or do I need to widen the body slightly too? Can anyone point me towards a dimensioned drawing of one of these vans? I assume such a drawing appears in one or both of the GNR(I) diagram books listed as in the IRRS archives: WD 001 GNR(I) Wagon diagram Book rev 1948 Y Y 35 Very clean original, does not include any of the later wagons WD 002 GNR(I) Wagon diagram Book rev c. 1959 45 From Dundalk works,Well used, annotation including numbers and build dates for many later wagons Cheers, Mol

Found elsewhere on the forum, a 10' container on a road vehicle, with mail being transferred to/from the train. The container is still quite new and clean in this 1970s photo by jhb171achill: From the same source, a shiny new pair: I must have a root through this thread for more!

The 4-wheelers were delivered in silver. Remember, you don't need one if there's a steam loco on the front, or if it's summer time. Only diesel-hauled in trains in winter need the steam. Also about half of the AEC railcars had built-in boilers so they don't need a steam van either. From Ernie on Flickr, it's August so there's no need for heating: The early 4-wheel vans were delivered in silver: They were later green, as seen here in one of Ernie's photos: And finally black and tan, at which point they seem to have lost some windows: The 6-wheelers were delivered new in black and tan, as seen here in one of Ernie's photos: They ended their days in 1983 confined to Dublin suburban services, as seen here in Neil Smith's photo:

It's important to note that there was a change in policy around 1970, relating to the electrical supply on carriages, and this influences which type of heating van is appropriate for a train. From steam days, carriages with electric lighting had dynamos and batteries, with steam heat provided from the loco. When diesels were introduced from 1955, steam heat vans were required to provide the heat, but the lighting still came from the dynamos and batteries. So... The 4-wheel heating vans 3101-3152 built 1955-1960 just had a boiler, no electric generator. The 6-wheel vans 3153-3156 built in 1964 (there were only ever 4 of them) had 2 boilers but still no electric generator. Around 1970 there was a move to convert the passenger fleet lighting from dynamos and batteries to supply from a generating steam van. Converted carriages had a TL suffix added to their number, indicating Train Line lighting. This required additional through wiring of the lighting power circuits. I'm not sure whether the dynamos and/or batteries were removed at the same time, or if there were changes to the voltage etc. So... The 10 'Dutch' vans 3157TL-3166TL built in 1969 were the first to have a generator. In 1972, the 22 ex-BR MK1 vans 3167TL-3176TL and 3177TL-3192TL arrived, also generator fitted. Gradual conversion of the whole fleet proceeded through the 1970s and early 1980s, with the carriages used for express trains generally prioritised over those on suburban duties. As the conversion programme progressed, more BGSVs were needed, so... Former brake standard coaches were modified with boilers and generators in 1977-1978 - these were numbered in the 3201TL-3218TL series and there were several varieties. By 1981 almost all trains were on the TL system; just the four 6-wheel vans were still in use on Dublin suburban trains with non-TL stock. Of course they were swept away by the DART. Getting back on topic for this thread, you'll notice that the Park Royal carriages offered by IRM include those with and without a TL suffix to the number. So... If you have carriages without TL, then they ought to be paired with a 4-wheel or 6-wheel heating van. If you have carriages with TL, then they ought to be paired with a Dutch, BR or 3201 series heating van. Doubtless there were mixtures during the transition period even if that meant going without lights!

Many thanks, that’s really helpful and plenty for me to think about. I will need to have some pointwork, but not sure what approach to use at present. Buffer spacing is 6’3” for the CIE wagons, whereas GB standard gauge is 5’7.5”, a 7.5” difference, similar to the track gauge increase.

This is on the Chemins de fer du Jura, and it’s also a waste train. Click on the photo to take you to my Flickr album for more details, and many more photos. The CJ has a couple of street running sections, the more impressive one is at La Chaux-de-Fonds but I haven’t uploaded a photo of that - I’ll try to find one later. They also operate freight on rollschemels: The RhB Chur-Arosa route is another place where you can see metre gauge freight/mixed trains running in the street. The biggest Swiss user of rollbocken for carrying standard gauge wagons on narrow gauge is the MBC: Again, there are more pics in the Flickr album. Mol

I have done the deed with the buffers, and I think it looks satisfactory. It's very hard to get buffers perfectly straight, but I take comfort from the fact that the factory-fitted ones aren't 100% perfect either! I have enough of these buffers to convert another wagon, so I might do that tomorrow or Friday. The buffers I've used are X6495 Hornby Sprung Tender Buffers for Class B1. They're not a perfect match to the CIE self-contained buffers but they're about right. Photo of the real thing from Neil Smith, showing the larger type buffers and how near they are to the outer edge of the headstock:

OK, here's a thread for the tank containers: