jhb171achill

I had a copy of that, but to be fair, it's not a great book. The info, yes, but not much unseen elsewhere - no author or publisher is mentioned in it. It appears to be privately published. The pages in my copy started coming apart almost as soon as I opened and I have to be honest - I dumped it as a result..... Probably the best archive of photos is Jimmy O'Dea's stuff at www.nli.ie, or the photos of Henry and Richard Casserley which have appeared in various other books. The West Cork system is probably best covered by Ernie Shepherd's book some years ago, but this was short on post-1925 info and especially photos.

Trying to crop them, turn 'em right way up, etc., but I can't work out how!

OK, 1960 to start, then 1930. Now, 1930. This will include Macroom, Kinsale and Schull (S & SLR). If there is any other year you need, i think I have all from 1926 at least. I also have appendix supplements regarding signal cabin hours, loco whistle codes and cattle traffic arrangements, all that sort of thing.

Yes. Gimme a year and I’ll post it here. I actually worked out a sequence some years ago and came to the conclusion that a realistic mix was (from memory) 7 locos, one bring a pilot in Cork, and one AEC railcar set which did two return trips a day. I thinks that’s what it was. I opted for five “C” class, 90, and 464 for the locos. A GSWR tank engine would be another option. Its a shame the J15s never set foot there - indeed, I'm unaware of ANY tender engines going anywhere in West Cork ever.

Yes, you're absolutely right about Shannonvale - I'm thinking "layout license" here! Obviously, the CIE train loco could have easily shunted it otherwise, if the track was fit for it. Yes, the sugar factories are another good idea. Loads of Leslie's corrugated opens (to do a beet season properly on a factory-based layout, you'd need fifty of the things! Tuam used its own locos plus CIE's "G"s, later actually hiring G611 after CIE had withdrawn it from their own use. Newmarket, also perhaps Fenit, Castleisland and Mitchelstown, or Banagher or possibly Edenderry........good fodder for thought.

Interesting that there's a discrepancy, as while we've already observed that mistakes can be made, I have never personally found any discrepancy in old IRRS journal stuff, NOR, of course, in official records!

As an aside, and hoping not to stray too far off topic, things like Sentinels and various one-off small locos can be seen as a little too specialist or limited for many layouts. However.... despite Ireland having WAAAY fewer industrial sidings, and therefore industrial locos than the Land of Brexit, and not only that, but most of what we DID have shunted by "railway company engines" rather than private ones, there are many instances that can provide inspiration for a small shunting layout. From the Derry docks to Courtaulds in Carrickfergus, to Guinness' Brewery, the former Allmans distillery loco shunting Cork's docks - and then small "company" engines like West Cork's 90, 100, 299, "Argadeen" and "St Molaga", a "G" on the North City Mills, the are a number of "modellable" scenarios, both real and imagined, around a potential prototype like that. Market sidings in Omagh and Limerick, and probably other places - a home for a Sentinel, of course. Most of the above examples are in or around cities, but many specialist sidings were in place all around the remoter west too. The Achill line, or all places, had in its short life no less than three short lines off it in planning stage. A turf carrying line of 2 miles or so near Achill, to Gubbardletter; a branch to a small pier at Inishlyre, near Westport (PERFECT for a small but highly scenic industrial siding); and right at closure time a series of turf sidings near Carrowgarve, outside Newport - which, if built, would have kept Westport - Newport open for a few years more as goods-only. Ballysodare had Polloxfen's Mills, with its cramped layout (perfect for a modeller short of space or time) necessitating 3-way turnouts, otherwise rare in Ireland. Shannonvale in Co Cork; might a Sentinel have worked there if it was busier? If anyone was ever modelling something like the Blessington tramway, it's not inconceivable that an outfit like that could have taken one of these locos, or had it lasted longer, bought the GSR ones. Guinness's might have taken one or two on, either new or ex-GSR.... So there's potential there, both in real life and in the "modeller's licence" world.

Which issue, do you know?

You could say that it was sent there after the Limerick markets line closed, as they had a need for something to shunt up there....maybe include some sort of industrial siding, maybe for turf? Such a thing was once proposed for near Achill, and after all a G was sent to shunt Ballina & the Crossmolina siding in 1962.....

One of the "Rosslare Express" set built 1906 for Cork - Rosslare boat trains via Mallow & Waterford. Sister vehicle of the RPSI's 12-wheel brake tricompo 861, currently undergoing gradual rebuild at Whitehead. There were VERY few 12-wheelers in Ireland!

I like the sound on that loco - it's pretty realistic. Does anyone know what type of loco it was recorded from?

Yes, CIE wagons, including but not confined to "H" types, were indeed regulars on the SLNCR. I saw a photo somewhere with a goods coming into EKN with as many CIE wagons as (combined) GN & SLNC types. For those modelling the SLNCR, that allows probably a greater variety of goods stock than anywhere else! The wagon in the photo above, if NCC, is certainly a very unusual and interesting visitor.

I can't see the outside W"'s.... if so, however, one wonders what it was doing further south than Portadown, given that the UTA stopped goods traffic in 1965? The locomotive has the higher tan sides, so the photo can't have been taken before about 1963. In 1964 / 5, I saw the goods trains passing through Lisburn every day, and they were almost, if not literally, completely ex-GN or CIE (including GSW vans) stock at that time.

Which particular pic, TimO?

Yes, and timing-wise that would be a perfect fit. There were even locos (A & C class) which went from by-then utterly filthy silver straight to black, without ever seeing a green paintbrush.

The third van behind the loco is a quite old fitted GNR van. I think, but i am not sure, that the GNR used these for bread traffic at one time.

Yes, exactly. The 2nd time I went through them, I started listing errors or things that weren’t actually incorrect, but clumsily worded e.g. something like “A J15 train at Sallins train station” sort of thing. Same with the Lawrence Collection - though in that case it’s non-railway stuff mostly. They do have one pic of Clifden station listed as Achill - but that was Lawrence’s mistake, not the NLI. None of us are perfect, I suppose!

I've been through the entire O'Dea collection in the NLI a couple of times. It's important to recall that it was them, rather than Jim O'Dea, who wrote the captions, and they are absolutely riddled with errors..... You'll get things like "No. 171 train S in Portadown" - meaning - "S class Locomotive No. 171 at Portadown" and that sort of thing..... Now, to be fair, the overwhelming majority are of course correct, but beware!

G613 looks to be straight out of the Murphy Models box, so 1962 is about right. That particular loco went to Loughrea very shortly after that and stayed there most of its life. I'm not entirely sure that the second carriage is a Craven at all. It is not that clear in the photo. Though what drew my attention to it was wondering what exactly it was. You're correct about the first Cravens arriving in 1963.

I’ll delve too, when I get home.

Indeed you are, as it is - the one on the left is most certainly “silver”. The right-hand one is green. The “proof” of these things in green is to be seen on the two examples preserved. While I can’t right now (being out of the country) put me hands to any pic of a green one, I’m sure I’ve seen it - but - even if I was totally mistaken, the paint traces on the preserved ones stand. Anything older than 1955-built obviously went from pre-‘55 dark lines green to the lighter green to BnT; obviously never being “silver”. There was one oul crate of a (6-wheel) TPO thing built in 1877 - STILL in use until about 1960! I’ll see what else I can dig up.

VERY realistic scenery!

Yes. In one of O’Dea’s pics above, one is green, the other silver. I've seen pics elsewhere but can’t put me finger to them right now - however, in terms of evidence, more importantly, of the two preserved ones at least one showed green paint under the BnT. As mentioned, beasts like these often had long waits to meet paintbrushes, so as can be seen, a disproportionate number skipped the ”green era”, going straight from filth (“silver”!!) to black’n’tan. Well into BnT days, I saw one so dirty that you could barely see the white line above window level.....

Those 2 pics - both very definitely “silver”. A point for modellers - anything at all in “silver” - be it a coach, Tom van or A or C class loco - the roofs were too. In photos they often look darker (and they were!), but this is pure dirt, not grey or black paint. A bit like the domes on GNR (blue) and CDR locos - often taken as black, but actually blue / red! ”Silver” CIE locos and rolling stick also had chassis the same - not a paintbrush went near them! Ghastly appearance....though one at least in my layout is going to have to happen at some stage......

Basically, any TPO built before 1955 was green from the outset, BnT after 1963. Anything built 1955-57 was turned out in silver (roof / ends / bogies included; dark colour is dirt), but repainted green 1958-62, BnT after 1963. This applies to 4 or 6 wheeled, or bogies equally. Since TPOs tended not to be a bother to painters too often, the very odd vehicle skipped the green and went from unpainted, through nondescript dirt, to BnT without seeing green. Jimmy O’Dea’s stuff shows filthy-silver alongside green in many types of passenger stock in the 1955-62 period.