jhb171achill

Tony, that is looking really amazing now - superb work.

I can’t remember where I took that pic above, but modellers might note a few details. The chassis is roughly painted the standard brown. This was actually rare - very rare - which is why I took the pic. Secondly, modellers might like to note that until “doubled” in height, the bodies were never brown - just the dirty unpainted metal as when built. Chassis originally grey, of course.

Absolutely superb - looks like a selection of Barry Carse’s photos! Best era of CIE - lots of freight and numerous mixtures of locos and carriages all over the place, and still a few sleepy branch lines.

The emphasis in Malahide will be on Fry’s actual models in display cases, and an 00 gauge operational layout. Currently there is no plan to display the non-Fry-made models and they remain in storage. They will be properly sorted and catalogued over the winter.

Yes - I suppose there were TWO grey liveries! 1. Original grey paint 1960s- c.1972 2. All-over cement covering, which was variously light or dark grey according to whether it was wet or dry weather - the damp soaking into the concrete "paint"!

Me too. I will definitely take 5 or 6 minimum.

The grey wagons were all repainted orange LONG before the ivory started. Thus, while at the dawn of the “supertrain” loco livery, there were probably still a few grey bubbles, (a) most were now orange, including the later ones delivered NEW in orange, and (b) all grey were long long gone by the time the “Tippex” striped loco livery appeared (1987).

That's correct, Leslie - the vast majority of those wagons were built well after the first few years of CIE. White was the norm from the early to mid 50s! So it's very much correct for your vans and cattle trucks. In fact it's the only show in town. I only ever saw the light green on old wagon bodies in fields, where a hedge had sheltered a side of a vehicle possibly sold off i before 1954.....

Initially, all "snails" were very carefully hand-painted, even on the humblest of wagons. The stencil appears to have been introduced sometime about 1955, as any newly painted wagons from then on had the stencil only. Obviously, they would have replaced it with the CIE "roundel" in 1963, but I recall seeing "snailed" grey wagons well into the 1970s, to the end of loose-coupled goods, in fact. From 1945 to 1950, "eau-de-nil" light green was used for numerals (and probably snails) painted on wagons, but white replaced this in the early 1950s. In addition, the shade of grey used lightened considerably in the late 1950s.

A Midland beauty, and in the "secondary" all-dark-green livery, sans lining or snail, as practiced, for example on the West Clare... it's surprising how many old midland coaches managed to end up in West Cork. Briefly, in 1959, an ex-GNR vehicle still in GNR brown, and clerestorey-roofed, managed to make its way onto a Cork - Bantry train. Love the elderly GSWR goods brake too. For those who manufacture transfers of flying snails, this stencilled version (white) would be a great addition, as "full" snails just don't look quite right on wagons 1955-70!

The very existence of the white stripe on the black'n'tan livery owes its origin to that very fact - that in a typical train virtually no two coaches were alike. I remember it well. Initially at least, the "borderline" between the lower tan and the mid-level black was always kept at exactly the same height, even if it didn't suit the "architecture" of the coach. The white line, similarly, was at exactly the same level, and (BR vans excepted, due to lower body height) the same six-inch width. As a result, an illusion of greater uniformity was created as one looked along the side of a train.

The late Billy Lohan was often rostered for Ennis specials. He never had anything other than a J15 except for a single occasion when he had a Midland 0.6.0 of some sort. I think he said a J18 or J19. This engine had dodgy brakes, according to Billy, and was being worked to Inchicore to be fixed. On account of this, he ran through a set of crossing gates somewhere north of Ennis and smashed them to pieces!

De udder locos..... yes, not just on the Midland but other lines too, the heaviest 0.6.0s were the norm. Today it would probably be 071s! (Now there’s a thought!) J15s were commonplace, even in the DSER. I believe DSER 15 & 16 (461/2) also made appearances, though you’d need to dip a Murphy 2.6.0 in grey paint to make it authentic! (They were never lined green, a la RPSI!)

Jhb171Senior-recalled counting FIFTY ONE cattle trucks leaving Ballinasloe (I think; possibly Gort or Loughrea) about 1936...... plus van with fry, in which he travelled. Smell of coal and oil??!???? NOOO! Cow poo.............

A former GSWR driver I interviewed in his very late nineties over 25 years ago told me that his most hated turn was Ennis cattle fair, when (possibly unofficially) he was given what he described as a “worn out” J15 to lift up to 45 loaded cattle trucks out of Ennis for destinations north....

With cattle trucks now available (thanks to Leslie!), a few background details relating to the working of cattle trains, once the STAPLE of MANY, if not most, rural lines, might be of interest. The attached is from the 1920 MGW WTT, but is typical of all cattle workings 1880-1970. (PS: Recess platform thing included by mistake but may be of interest anyway).

I have developed a serum Antidote to protect against voodoo dolls invoked by the Female Women (of the Opposite Sex) who comment on our purse-strings. I am happy to share details about which pubs do a good pint of it for, say, €50 a time. (I’ve got to save for As and 121s SOMEHOW!)

Looking good - can't wait for mine! Great to see so many variations possible. Maybe a D16 "Achill Bogie" or a GSWR D14 or D17 next!

A pair of 121/141/181 roaring up the gullet with about eleven heavily loaded laminates & Park Royals (10:30 Dublin-Cork about 1977), or a single 141 lifting nine Mk 2s stuffed with commuters (Lisburn-Belfast about 1995-2000) was the best I ever recall hearing!

Six-wheelers were the majority of passenger stock well into the 20th century. In Ireland, four-wheelers in passenger service had as good as disappeared by 1890, bar the extremely few examples I mentioned above. Bogies became more commonplace by the 1920s, but six-wheelers were still extensively in use until the late 1950s, by which time they were increasingly confined to branch and secondary lines, West Cork, and the Cork and Dublin suburban services. The last ones in traffic were an excursion rake in Cork, withdrawn in 1963. Several ex-GSWR 6w passenger brake vans were in use until about 1966/7, and these were the only six-wheelers ever painted black’n’tan. No passenger-carrying ones ever were. One was used on the Galway line on the mail train as late as 1967. By that stage, it’s companions were laminates, Park Royals, Bredins, and the odd Craven. As Mayner states, some found departmental use. The last in such use appear to have been withdrawn about 1971. The last ones in use in passenger traffic were a mix of GSWR and MGWR origin. DSER examples were largely scrapped in early CIE days; I’m not sure why. Vehicles surviving in departmental use were all (as far as I know) of MGWR types. The last few passenger brakes in use (1963-7) were all GSWR types. I bought one for £60 and donated it to the RPSI......

A gentleman I knew, an Inchicore fitter who was called to fix breakdowns the odd time, had nothing good to say about Crossley “A”s or “C”s..... I don’t recall if he commented on B101s, though. He said that cracked fuel pipes and oil leaks were a major cause of failures, because they had put what was basically a marine diesel engine into a jolting, jarring railway locomotive. When I get my silver one, I’ll have to weather it with oil stains and general grime. Please don't tell IRM, though, or that Pat fella will cancel my order!

Actually, serious point: sieved turf ash might be a good colour and consistency for certain types of crushed sandy gravel?

I meant new-builds - What I think Murray meant was that in the 1890s such beasts were still running, as opposed to new builds at that time. The last four-wheeler in actual service that I’m aware of was a Midland third of very ancient ancestry, which was gutted and rebuilt as first class saloon, lasting until perhaps 1910-15 or so. The Hatton coaches are of more-or-less 1880s-1910s design. In. Ritalin they were still building new four wheelers WELL within that period, Anything four wheeled here was of much earlier design (1865-75 era), and as stated by Murray, likely to be in departmental use. A GSWR passenger brake of 1877 vintage, but an even earlier 1860s “flat-roofed” design, was put into departmental use by the GSR a long time ago, and still in such use with CIE in 1960 when it was scrapped, STILL in GSWR dark lake livery.

Curved ends would have limited them to a few W & L types. Good that they’re flat-ended. Important thing: Irish railways didn’t use 4-wheelers at all during the era (approx 1880-1915) when body designs of this type were in vogue. Thus, the only useful ones for Irish lines are the six-wheeled ones, though they’d need footboards for all lines. A pair of the bodies of the 4-wheeled ones would make a nice “generic” bogie coach.

Has anyone tried something like modelling clay smeared over the sleepers, with very fine ballast (like N scale gravel) rubbed into it? Just leaving rails showing like in the photo of the industrial siding above?