jhb171achill

Love it!!

More than happy to...... like TTC, I have an involvement too. For a while there won't be a huge amount to report, other than minutae, but as and when anything significant occurs, TTC and myself can post details.

Yes, Ulsterbus Bill, that was a period with much to see; doesn't it always seem as if the generation before us had it all? (In my case, steam, which I only remember in its last dying decade). I must dig out some photos i have, but from memory, what was about York Road in the early 1990s (both IN traffic and in "storage") was as follows: The three DH shunters. One in maroon with light grey stripes, two in light grey with maroon stripes (or maybe two and one!). In their short life they had three liveries. The ex-CIE "C" class locos, which NIR called "MV" (for "Metrovick" - even though they then had GM engines) or "104" class. One remained in faded CIE livery, as it had only been acquired for spares. The rest were in NIR plain blue with a "day-glo" orange upside-down chevron on the front (not yellow). 80 class railcars - most in the new light grey with blue upper part, and white-black-white-yellow stripe at waist level. A couple still in all-light-grey with broad maroon stripe below window, the livery in which three sets had been lent to Irish Rail. Others retained the short-lived and quite hideous "Suburban" red and cream (not light grey), with orange stripe. The 071 class ("GM" or "111" class to NIR) trio used on the "Enterprise" in their earlier lighter blue, with day-glo orange rectangles on the ends. The YELLOW end patches appeared once they were repainted the darker blue they carry now. The "Hunslets". No. 103 was scrapped, and 101 was derelict, but 102 soldiered on, and in between long spells out of traffic, she shunted Adelaide goods yard. The Hunslets were a bad design, underpowered for the work they were acquired for. Thus, they were overworked in their early years, leading to unreliability before long, and as a result they had a short life. More often than not, shunting at Adelaide was carried out by IE locos. I think it was 154 or 155 that was virtually based there for several years on loan. (This led to rumours that NIR would buy a couple of 141s from IE, as shunter / PW locos, and send 112 south in exchange; this loco spent about six years on loan to IE and appeared on everything from beet to the Ballina branch train....but that's another tale.) The MED and MPD classes were by then out of use, and the 70s scrapped. Go a few years earlier, to lets say the mid 1980s, and the modeller can add to the above eclectic list the last two MPD cars in use, one still in maroon and grey and the other in blue and maroon; some 70s, still with ex-NCC or GNR coaches as centre cars, and the last few MED sets, none of which were ever repainted blue and maroon. NIR and the UTA are often ignored by modellers. Scenically, much of the small network isn't on a par with places further south or west, but a layout based around Castlerock - Downhill tunnel would be spectacular! The "Troubles" led to some stations looking little better than derelict, with temporary buildings after bombs, sectarian graffiti and a general air of depressing dereliction - but that in itself, as a background, is as historically interesting as it is unique in modelling terms. And gems still existed - Lisburn station is a W H Mills delight to this day, with a background of beautiful mature trees. Derry's Waterside station was a spectacular setting for a layout until it was blown up. Go back to the 1960s, and what about the Derry Road for a layout? Sheer gem that would be. In the twilight years of Grosvenor Road good yard in Belfast, much scope is there for the modeller - the elusive BCDR diesel No. 28, which shunted dilapidated UTA goods wagons and CIE "H" vans about through the weeds until 1965, and CIE's Dundalk goods trains until its demise in 1972. The tail end of steam; a tatty "Jeep" on a ballast train sits, in summer 1970, alongside a pristine "whistler" "Hunslet" and its brand new BR-style Mk 2s, while an eclectic mix of MEDs, AECs, and BUTs await their next jaunt to Portadown. Ditch the "Jeep" and call it 1974, and you can add a few 70 and 80 class cars too. (70s, incidentally, while they appeared on the "Enterprise" in the late '60s, seem to have all migrated to the NCC by the early 70s - only to reappear on locals, especially when the Derry trains were re-routed via the Antrim branch in 1976). I look forward to seeing Ballyshane develop. If money and time was unlimited, and we all lived in buildings the size of Leinster House, you could model the lot. Like you, I settle for something that can be a "microcosm" layout, as the Planning Dept. of the Ministry of Domestic matters needs to be negotiated with regarding an extension. You think Brexit is complicated; securing such permission is an ongoing work..... Enough ramblings of an oul wan. My coffee is getting cold and I've stuff to do.

Commenting on the bits you mentioned above: 1. The NCC had much concrete structural work - in fact they were one of the first companies in Ireland to use it on a widespread basis. 2. Derry-style freight operation - much scope there for the modeller! If you're dealing with the period where NIR's second-hand "C" class locos were in operation (1980s), you're into cement bubbles and fertiliser; doubtless you'll have some of IRM's "bubbles" ready! And RTR fertiliser wagons are something for the future, we hope. 3. 70 and 80 class sets, also MEDs, almost always ran in 3-car sets, especially the 70s. However, 2-car sets were to be seen occasionally (especially in the case of 80s). In the 1980s there were still two steam-era coaches used as railcar intermediates with 70s. One was ex-NCC No. 526, which remained in maroon and light grey until its demise in 1981 or 1982, the last steam-era coach still in use in Ireland. It dated from 1926, and retained its internal mahogany seat frames and high seat backs to the end. Then there was 727, and ex-GNR K15 and the last GN passenger coach in traffic. It ended in the maroon and blue livery but internally still had its grey and red GNR upholstery in part. The UTA and NIR receive less attention than the bigger and more varied CIE. But there is very much of interest in your scenario. If you expand your "timeline", than up to 1970 you can include a filthy "Jeep" on a ballast train, and maroon Hunslet on the goods. You could even have a visiting AEC or BUT set, even though these very rarely left ex-GNR metals. A Sunday School steam excursion could bring in an eclectic mix of old ex-GN and ex-NCC steam carriages, hauled by the same Jeep. Goods can be in the hands of a pair of MPD railcars - which they were more often than with locos after 1965. "Poetic licence" might allow a CIE 141 in (if you can get one!) with a goods. In the period you're going for, cement, Guinness and fertiliser were the traffic on the NCC from Lisburn to Derry. Only mail and parcels went to Larne. With Derry services going via Lisburn to Central, the Larne line was "cut off". The "Red Star" containers were carried on long-wheelbase four wheeled flats converted mostly from "brown van" chassis, but weren't lifted on and off them - wagon plus container functioned as a goods van. The "spoil" wagons are a great idea. In those times the ex-CIE locos were the staple motive power. "Hunslet" 102, the only remaining one, spent its interludes in service shunting Adelaide goods yard and rarely if ever went anywhere near Larne, or indeed anywhere else up the NCC. Most of the time, though, it was out of use - the Hunslets were a poor design to start with, and unsuited to the work they were ordered for. Thus, too-heavy initial use made them unreliable. You might eventually have a few battered oul four wheel wagons and one of Leslie McAllister's ex-GNR guards vans for a ballast train, hauled by a "DH" 0.6.0 diesel shunter (English Electric, 1969). If it's two-car passenger trains you want, the last two MPD cars were sometimes run on locals as a pair, though to be accurate usually only as far as Carrickfergus. While one had gained the then modern blue and maroon livery, the other remained maroon and light grey to the end. I always like seeing northern-based layouts, as there is much there that has yet to be modelled by more than a handful of good folk. Looking forward to seeing this one develop. Good luck with it.

Pity the yoke beyond it didn;'t survive. If I remember, it was one of the last WLWR coaches to survive. Belturbet's 900 is the only one now, after their (derelict) Director's Saloon (934) was burned by scumbags at Mullingar about thirty years ago.

Correct! I like to think it all went pear-shaped after the Post Office cancelled the mail contract with the MGWR for the Achill line..... Letter posted to Mr. Alphagraphix now; by DSER / LNWR he should have it in half an hour! With An Post and Royal Mail, he might get it by July. I didn't say which July....... Anyway, I've laboured that point ad infinitum. I look forward to seeing what his wares are. If the catalogue lends itself in any way to reproduction of the Irish stuff, I'll post a list here of what he offers.

I’m sending off for an Alpha etc catalogue tonight! I will write a letter, stick a stamp on it and put it in a local Edwardian letterbox tomorrow. My letter will go to Kingstown Pier, and onto the steamship for Holyhead, from where a big LNWR locomotive will bring it to the capital of the Empire. A postman with a big hessian sack will then deliver it to Alpha. I hope they are well stocked up with tallow candles to read mail on these dark evenings......

It would!!

Thee will be several "silver" (in reality, all-over dirt!) tin vans......

And there was me thinking I had it right!

Exactly, Galteemore. (Though Argadeen would have been dark grey!) Equally, it could have survived until 1967, allowing a 141!

These beauties arrived this morning - soon to grace the tracks of Dugort Harbour.... I even loaded the images the right way up, at first attempt. There’s s first time for everything. Since the layout is 1957-64 period, green and black’n’tan will rub shoulders, as steam will with diesel.

Yes, indeed, and despite my frequent murmurings here about the authenticity of lack of it, of a model, I stand very firmly with the idea that “it’s your layout”. In early 20s I had a fledgling 009 layout based on the West Clare. It never got finished (do they ever?), but I had bought a whitemetal kit of a Donegal railcar, which would be finished in black’n’tan, had I ever built it. The idea was that the line had lasted into the 1970s, so that a (black’n’tan!) F class could haul a container train! In authenticity terms it would have scored a big fat zero. However, I do feel that it is vitally important to have correct info “out there” and widely known, because a great many modellers do seek authenticity. Drew’s models were great, and his layout a joy to behold. Like the famous Donegal layout of the late Sam Carse, the emphasis was on correct railway operation, though devoid of scenery. Drew was a very dogmatic type of character, and as you say he knew better than CIE when it came to liveries! While not authentically painted, I have to agree with him that ALL locos looked better in lined green, than plain grey! As far as Alphagraphix is concerned, they seem to have CIE locos in black, when almost all were dark grey, GSWR locos in unlined black (they should be lined in red and white), and that green Midland engine should also be lined out in black and white. I must get his catalogue for the craic. And I still wonder what a West Clare railcar and an F class diesel would have looked like in black’n’tan!

For info on the Castlecomer branch, and photos, the best resource is Barry Carse’s excellent article in a recent IRRS journal. Wayside - very many thanks for your kind offer to bid for the D & B stuff. I did, however, submit to the auctioneer a bid much lower than that asked. If they don’t get what they’re asking they’ll get back to me. I think that if you visit the auctioneer you can view lots in advance.

NO website? Wow - does he have electricity or running water, I wonder! Drooling is indeed appropriate, but the idea of putting stamps in the post to someone was outdated forty years ago, and I premise he'd want British stamps. This makes it awkward for anyone in the south to even see what he has, let alone order it. I'll keep it on the long finger..... And with no website, where do we get his postal address? I love the GNR station! His take on loco liveries, by the look of what's displayed, is unfortunately very wide of the mark in many cases. I like his clerestory GSWR 6-wheeler too, though its livery is somewhat inaccurate. There were only a few GSWR six-wheelers with clerestorey roofs, but at least one, I believe, made it into CIE days. Maybe he might attend some of the exhibitions here....

Alphagraphix don't seem to have any website....if they do, it must be on the "dark web" because I can't find It anywhere! Any thoughts / ideas, anyone?

Most of it is very overpriced. i would be very interested in “seven boxes of” all sorts of paperwork and historical records of the Dublin & Blessington Tramway, but not €400 and upwards for boxes of mildewed and dirty old papers. I have an 1877 boardroom minute book from the BCDR and it’s pristine!

That is a truly spectacular job. Quite simply the best brass work I’ve ever seen!

Looking good!

Exactly! Pathetic....

Yes!! Ribbons are obligatory!! A great start to her modelling career..... in this house, Daughter-The-Middke bought me some very nice grasses bushes and bushes for sticking in abandoned corners at Dugort Harbour!

If it’s an NCC prototype, the somersault signal you mention would be an interesting addition! These signals were unique to the NCC. On the GN and the Bangor line, lower quadrant signals were used. On operational matters, you’re exactly right.

The silver livery seen on that “A”, and also applied to “C”s, the first trio of “G”s, the E401 and B101 classes, always got THAT filthy in a very short time. So much so, that a PRISTINE silver loco on a layout is about as unrealistic as a pale blue and tartan one, hauling purple and pink coaches!

I'm familiar with this project. The organisers have acquired the site of the station and a short section of the trackbed. A new replica gate has been installed at the level crossing, of the type unique to the line. While the entire station building was demolished in the 1960s, the platforms, base of water tower, and goods shed are intact. The initial plan is to make up a small museum relating to the line and Connemara in general (which has a fascinating social and economic history otherwise). Eventually, rolling stock is planned. Initial discussions have taken place with organisations who own 5ft 3in stock, with a view to establishing what is practical to go there, and under what conditions. Excavations have revealed the base of the signal cabin and down platform shelter, both of which will be rebuilt in the long run. In theory (and this is my input), four MGWR six-wheel coaches are potentially available; the ones at Whitehead and Clifden, and two at Downpatrick. All four would require a rebuild from ground up, but such a task - while time consuming and expensive - is feasible. Again in theory, the ITG own four "G" class locomotives which would be suitable, though substantial renovation would be needed. The DCDR's "E" class locos have been surplus to operational requirement for many years and are likely to remain so. In terms of steam, and again very much hypothetically, either the "Guinness" engine, or "R H Smyth" at Whitehead, would be theoretically suitable. The line was operated almost totally by J18 class 0.6.0s, the MGWR's equivalent of the southern J15s. At Whitehead, 184 and 186 remain, neither in traffic or likely to be. Of these, 184 would require a total rebuild - basically a new engine, as little is suitable for further use. This would be impractically expensive, and in any event operation using J15s would be beyond hopelessly uneconomic (which is why the DCDR has never requested a loan of them!). Beyond this, there is currently nothing further to report. Once "Rails Through Connemara" is published, it is hoped to hold a book launch in the area.

They were delivered in light grey and yellow. On first repaint black’n’tan, then subsequent CIE liveries. As far as I’m aware the last one still in grey was repainted in 1967, so this livery didn’t last long.