jhb171achill

I will be doing book sales on the May tour. If anyone wants to turn up at Connolly on the morning of the Friday diesel trip, your contributions would be very welcome indeed.

Ah! I misread it....thought it was €266.....

I think it's off a staff machine inside a signal cabin. Not 100% but I remember seeing some sort of brass plaque about that size on a tablet instrument on one of the occasions I was dragged into signal cabins by jhbSnr in the 1960s.

In the above, and in general, a column heading "D E" meant a diesel locomotive of A, B101 or C class. In the case of West Cork, this would be "C" - the other two classes never set foot there in service, though an "A" did a trial run light once. "D T" means "Diesel train", which meant an AEC railcar set. A column headed "J" meant a J15 steam engine or, on the Midland (e.g. the Ballaghaderreen branch) a J18. A column with nothing at the top could be anything, steam or diesel. On the West Clare, "D T" meant a Walker railcar.

They led extremely limited lives! Crews who worked them reported them to be exceptionally uncomfortable to work in, with a very cramped cab, things you'd be knocking your knees or elbows against, no heating, poor brakes and poor visibility. A shunter's nightmare. Their range was basically Heuston to North Wall, and shunting Inchicore and Heuston yards. On a layout, they'd be best suited to a model of either, or perhaps shunting an imaginary industrial site like the North City Mills sidings or something like it. Any time I saw them, they were awaiting attention of some sort, or out of use, at Inchicore.

In planning layouts in the past, and in particular the current one, Dugort Harbour, if I seek realism I consult old timetables to see what exactly would have strutted the rails in the chosen (or imaginary) location. Here are a few extracts from the winter 1960/1 WTT which shows the West Cork and West Clare systems. Perusal of these shows what was where, and when - indicating, for example, that three railcars plus one loco for goods were required to operate the West Clare, and in West Cork you'd need a branch set for Skibbereen, a coach based down there for Baltimore, plus the railcar which did what was then the main line, Cork (Albert Quay) to Bantry. Add to this the comings and goings over the Cork City Railway, and the notice of what pilot engines were required at Albert Quay, and at what hours, and it's clear quite soon how many "C" class locos (or No. 90 to shunt) were required. Nerdy I know; this is me. But to some, hopefully, interesting. WTT extracts below:

I've an idea that GNR "P" van in CIE livery was unique. The UTA painted several green, and even NIR managed to inherit at least two, being painted into their all-over maroon. "P" vans, by their appearance in any livery, see, never, ever to have been cleaned - I don't recall ever seeing a picture of one in anything other than a liberal coating of general grime and caked brake-dust! This one's no exception. There's one at Whitehead - or was - on which the NIR markings may still be made out. CIE didn't keep too many ex-GNR vans, as at the time the GNR was split between them and the UTA, they were churning out new "tin" vans at a rate of knots. The closure of much of the GN didn't help their survival. Many ex-GN vehicles of all types which came into CIE ownership never turned a wheel again and were scrapped quite soon. And look to the left of the "P" van! The end of that coach....got to be one of the last surviving DSER vehicles in traffic!

Here's another idea. There was at one time a proposal to build a branch from Ballina to Crossmolina. Nothing came of it, obviously, but say it did? You've a 1990s Ballina which hosts multiple goods trains (sorry, "liners"), and three separate varieties of passenger train. There's a one-a-day Castle Kerry to Dublin through service. Cue a Mk 2 set with an 071 or 201. Then there's the connection into the Westport trains consisting of a 141 plus two Cravens and a van, based in Castle Kerry. Finally, the 121 + Mk3 Push-Pull set based in Castle Kerry for the (equivalent of) Crossmolina branch.... Goods might be fertiliser (when IRM's wagons are ready), cement, containers and Guinness.... Loads of scope there while maintaining credibility.

The number is 142, indicating GSWR origin indeed. The chassis is normal wagon length, not the longer style favoured in Britain. Most Irish horse boxes were a shorter chassis. The ?.6.65.G refers to a general overhaul ("G") on the ?th of June 1965. Yes, the surviving old wooden bogies by about 1970 were renumbered into the 4xxx series for peak summer traffic use in the Connolly station to Bray / Howth / Mosney area, and Cork to Youghal summer excursions.

Often wondered why they called them “sangars”.... where did the word come from? Excellent plan! Tha apparent two-tone paint is a result of “touching up” rather than a full repaint. In reality, same maroon all over.

Given that 141s are now on fleabay for €200, I wish I had bought a couple of dozen of them too. If people are paying €200 for a 141, I suppose, regrettably, €266 for a 071 (what about a 201?) is going to be par for the course. Personally I wouldn't pay that, but that's just me. Moral of the story - we all get our orders in for 121s ASAP.

Each to our own, Hurricane! :-) As long as there are kit kats on the catering trolley...............................................

Ah - didn’t know they were 50s too. The registration appears to be MNV 125. Or M something V.

I would have thought the 1960s...... not sure that model of Rover car was about in the 50s....... any car experts like to comment?

Unless IE throw their usual spanner in the works and a diesel turns up for that bit! I hope not. Little enough main line steam..... Pity Whitehead wasn't able to get 131 ready in time.

The van is certainly spot on, and the wagon looks good too. As for the tanker, I agree that it's likely to have had a short chassis, and what you've made is very convincing indeed. Even if no actual hard and fast accurate drawing is to hand, things like this were often built almost ad hoc, as one-offs, so it's as good as any and certainly looks convincing. Excellent stuff as always.

Incidentally, perusal of the depths of the catacombs throws up a spare 8th June 1970 WTT. If anyone wants it, say €15 + postage - PM me.

Gawwwd be with the days, Noel. Oul ICRs now, not of one of which I've ever seen with cattle trucks in tow. Nor have I seen one stop to take on water.

Correct. By the mid 70s the up and town evening mails were the ONLY trains across the Athlone - Mullingar section. I think it ended ‘77 or ‘78.... must look up in timetables!

More gems from 1960 in Edernderry. Look at the table to show how big cattle still was even then. NO Irish layout pre-'60 is authentic without considerable cattle traffic. especially in the south and west. The Edenderry branch is still open - just - but awash with knew high weeds in many places. This plus many other rural lines are only open because nobody has yet closed them, but Todd Andrews will soon work his magic. Edenderry hasn't seen a passenger service in thirty years, but goods and cattle still go in there. The previous timetable for the latter part of 1959 still has the tail end of the GNR. The Dublin - Clonsilla - Navan - Kingscourt is still operated as a separate planet from Drogheda - Navan - Oldcastle. The Dublin & Meath is still J18s and very "Midland" in character, while the Oldcastle branch is pure GNR, with a railcar doing passenger until recently but now just a GNR steam engine doing goods. With Brexit looming, and the choice of a bad outcome on this island, a worse one, or a disastrous one, thanks to our political friends, it's particularly appropriate to look at the last scene in this series - the rump Irish North left behind as a result of political matters. I could get very political here about these contemptible goons, but won't; I don't have the three weeks necessary to type out just the headings. And this isn't the forum, so enjoy the following and imagine the GNR vehicles with "U T" and "CIE" stencilled on the ends, with incursions of green and grey things with flying snails on them!

AAARRRGGGHHHH How do i turn the above the right way up?

Can't see the LUAS ever having to stop for water at Attymon Junction, or dropping cattle trucks for Oughterard in Galway!

Indeed, DART811. Illustrations of relevant tables for Dublin - Galway, Westport, Ballina and Sligo to follow. Yes, it was made of sections. Among my favourite railway memories are of travelling on the return version of this from Sligo one evening, leaving there at 18:10, I think, and arriving into Connolly at 01:25 or so, after a lengthy wait at Mullingar (an hour, awaiting the up Galway portion). Up front were two 121s, the numbers of which I forget. the train consisted of an elderly brake standard, converted from either an old Bredin or a 1951-series CIE build to the same basic design. It had three side corridor compartments at one end, and the rest of it, some two thirds of the coach, was a giant parcels / guard / mail van. Next was a bogie mail coach, then a tin van, plus several other fitted vans of various types. Three passengers boarded. I had come up from limerick that day on the solitary Limerick - Ballina departure as far as Claremorris, thence by old "E" class bus to Sligo. I missed the last train of the day (there were only three) to Dublin, so i went on the mail, which wasn't even advertised. It was sunny summer day, but as we approached Sligo it was clear it had been raining - the ground glistened in the evening sun, and black clouds vied for space in the firmament with blue sky and bright sun. One passenger got off at Collooney vanished into the evening sun to a waiting car. The other passenger drove me mad. A tall, angular man, with wild grey hair and a long black coat, he wandered up and down the (short!) corridor, mumbling to himself through a thick moustache that could have comfortably been called home by a sizeable community of rabbits, mice and pine martens. His coat portrayed a vivid canvas of remnants of the last six months' dinners in stained cameo down its front. He came into my compartment. Why mine? There were three others. As the evening sun lengthened into shadows, I pretended to be asleep. If it was today, I'd pretend to be a "furriner". Me no speekee no eengleesh. The train stopped at every station to load and unload mailbags, cartons of washing powder, a lawnmower, and dear knows what. As the sun set over the boglands of Westmeath, we eventually arrived at Mullingar. My companion wandered up and down, mumbling as he went without break, and sticking to my compartment, or wherever I tried to go to, as his last few hang sangwidge remnants stuck to his moustache and shirt. Fifty minutes at Mullingar were required to await the up Galway mail. It arrived with one 141 up front. Some shunting ensued, and eventually we were off, at about midnight. After several stops in the dark (signals? Crossing goods trains? I don't know - I was very sleepy now - irrespective of the Mumbler - arrival in Connolly (or was it Westland Row?) was about 01.25. Mumbler exepted, I'd love to do it again. One of my only two nocturnal mail train journeys in Ireland. The other was less eventful, and I was the only passenger out of Galway. Timetables follow, which should throw light on your query. This is the 1960/1 WTT.

The all-white roundel only ever appeared on newly delivered 071s, Divecontroller. All roundels on all locos without exception were transfers, with a tan "broken wheel" and white lettering. Variations appeared on buses but never locos. This transcended the black, black'n'tan and supertrain livies 1963/4 until 1987 when the new IE "set of points" logo appeared. On a brand newly painted loco, in any period or livery mentioned above, the tan on the CIE transfer looked very slightly less "orangey" when new, and often faded somewhat, leading assumptions to be made that it was, in fact, a lighter almost beige colour. Not so, though. Thus, when the "supertrain" livery came out, there appeared to be a far greater contrast between shades than was actually the case. This was entirely due to our old friend, weathering. A bit like the "silver" laminates, A, C, E, and B101 locos, and tin vans - they looked "silver" about ten minutes into their first journey, then dirty light grey thereafter! Or white wain numerals or logos - nothing, but nothing, ever painted white on any railway vehicle stayed that way long..... So only the one colour of CIE logo - though a "weathered" version of this and many other logos, if commercially available, would greatly add authenticity to many models.

Interesting train, illustrating perfectly the point that I make elsewhere quite often - that in the pre-1970 times going way back, in both goods and passenger trains barely two consecutive vehicles were alike. Behind the loco - a non-corridor third of approx 1900-05 era, either GSWR or possibly DSER in origin in GSR maroon; a brown and cream MGWR composite (prob 1st / 2nd); a maroon MGWR six-wheeled third; a brown and cream GSWR third by the look of it, and various horse boxes and fitted vans. The GSR initially used the same extremely dark browny maroon known as "crimson lake" (though it was about as crimson as an apple!) as per GSWR, just different markings. The brown and cream, same shades as the English GWR, starts appearing in the late 1920s but is confined to main line stock. From 1933, LMS shade maroon (with identical lining, as seen in the first coach) becomes the norm for the rest of GSR days. The loco, of course, is all-over dark grey.