jhb171achill

Could well be, Merlinxii. The higher centre of gravity, which was indeed the problem, contributed to the instability; it was when laden they were at their worst, according to a York Road man who mentioned it. With a sloped floor to one side, the weight of stone was great on one side too - that would have made matters worse. I often wondered why they didn't get bogie hoppers. But then, CIE used four wheeled flats for their earliest container traffic about the same time! With a one-side-tipper, it is possible that a bogie vehicle wouldn't have been much more stable..... Pity, for the interest, that one didn't survive in preservation. I should add that in the above ramble, I forgot all about the three NIR diesel shunters, which were delivered in 1969. I'll deal with them in the next tome.

Timeline of rolling stock and locomotives over the last fifty years or so First, the picture in 1969 NIR About six steam engines (all “WT” class 2.6.4T) in use at any one time, confined to ballast trains and “spoil” on the Larne line. Very, very occasional forays onto passenger trains – excursions and breakdowns. Passenger stock is a mix of old GNR and NCC stock – nothing BCDR or BNCR has by now survived, and the last non-corridor stock has recently been withdrawn. The Sligo tank shunting at York Road is now withdrawn, as is the last of the pair of “Jintys” used for that purpose in the early 1960s. There are no internal goods trains whatsoever other than the spoil trains, though several goods yards (e.g. Lisburn and Ballymena) survive, home to weeds, but still with track. Passenger trains are entirely of MED stock on the (disconnected) Bangor line. PW trains on that line are an empty set hauling several old open wagons. No other stock is on the line, nor will be until they are reconnected in 1976. Passenger trains on the Larne line are largely MPD cars, barely two being identical. Some were late 50s new-builds, others (including non-corridor) are conversions of NCC carriages dating from the 1920s. Prototype MEDs 6 & 7 are there too. To such exceptional extent as steam still does anything passenger-related, it’s most likely to be here. Mail is conveyed in “Brown vans” (now in very heavily weathered UTA green, with an occasional one repainted NIR maroon) between Larne Harbour and Belfast. On the Derry line, 70 class sets predominate, though many trains are also worked by MPDs, especially short workings and the Portrush branch. A number of newish halts with one or two coach length platforms and plain concrete construction are in operation on the Belfast – Larne and Antrim lines, like “Eden” (what a name; the place is anything but!) and Kilroot. On the former GN section, from Great Victoria Street to Dundalk, AEC and BUT cars of GNR(B) origin operate most trains, though 70 class sets are on the “Enterprise”. Usually there is one steam loco (WT) about, on ballast duties, though on other occasions it isn’t! Former BCDR diesel locomotive No. 28 shunts the CIE goods at Grosvenor Road goods yard. A few old wagons lie around, and it was about that time that the ex-GNR 0.6.0 No. 49 disappeared from a weed-grown siding at Adelaide for its appointment with the scrapman. Ballast trains are ex-Courtaulds open wagons of NCC origin (most built 1922-26). Goods brake vans remain in use for ballast trains. There are two of former GNR origin (perhaps three) and two of ex-NCC stock; all are in an atrocious external condition, as are the clapped-out old wagons they are paired with. Spoil trains use a steam locomotive at each end for two reasons: (1) they haven’t enough brake vans, and (2) the trains run in push-pull mode, so it makes sense to use a locomotive at each end, the guard travelling in one of them with its crew. The spoil trains are operating with brand new stock, however, the 1967-built four wheel hopper wagons new from Cravens and painted in all-over duck-egg light blue/grey. These wagons discharge on the seaward side only and thus have doors on one side only, giving them a distinct appearance but also making them prone to instability when fully loaded. CIE The CIE system, by contrast, has been modernised substantially in recent years. Steam has been gone for six years, and brand-new 181s operate with the 121 and 141 class on most trains; these are treated as a common fleet and number over 50 locomotives. The 11-yr-old C class and the 14-year-old A class are undergoing the “re-engining” programme, with the original Crossley engines replaced by those from GM. Some of the B101 class survive in traffic, though these are mostly confined “south” to Cork and Waterford depots. They are rarely seen in Dublin, but appear occasionally on Tralee – Limerick – Sligo. They rarely if ever see passenger work since Mallow-Waterford and the Croom branch closed in 1967. Of the smaller locos, the G class now have nothing to do except the Loughrea branch, station pilot duties at Tralee, Limerick and Galway, and shunting Tuam beet sidings during the beet campaign. Soon, Tralee and Galway won’t need them any more either. Passenger trains consist entirely of a large fleet of quite a few different laminate varieties, built to two separate side-profile designs; Park Royals; the full fleet of 40 Cravens, Bredin GSR stock, and (almost entirely on local trains in the Dublin and Cork areas) a fair number of 1915-25 era GSWR wooden corridor stock. Non-corridor stock is now confined to a very small number of vehicles in two Dublin spare sets. With the exception of the wooden stock, all coaches are a common fleet. Cravens are mixed up with everything else, but are mostly on main lines. From recollection, though, their appearances on the DSER and Sligo lines was much rare, and a modeller of these lines in this year would be as well to forget about them! Goods is varied. Cement Bubbles are beginning to be seen in various locations, mixed in with all types of other stock; this is before the idea of block trains of a single type of vehicle. Most are standard wagon grey, though the newest are appearing in orange and light grey. “Palvans” and “H” vans of standard CIE mid-1950s / mid 60s designs, and Bullied corrugated open wagons absolutely dominate goods traffic, carrying everything under the sun. In the Cork / Tralee are and Dublin, grain wagons are to be seen, and there are quite a few GNR goods vans of (1954) similar design to the CIE “H” vans. Older wooden framed vans, mostly ex-GNR but an occasional late GSR one, may also be seen. Wooden sided open wagons are by now rare. Containers travel on four-wheel flats, or new build with longer wheelbase than older standard chassis. Guinness is carried in “open wagon” type containers on the same modern flats. Old brake vans are by now gone, and all are of modern CIE type – some 20T, some 30T. A few retain the vertical wooden planking, but most are steel sheet. The AEC railcars are still in use, almost totally on Dublin suburban services since the 141 and 181 locos arrived. Howth, Drogheda and Bray suburban trains consist of AEC cars, with various laminates, Park Royals, AEC railcar intermediates, and the odd wooden bogie coach, as intermediates. No BUT cars remain in use, though there is at least one in operational order in Inchicore. Peak trains can be loco hauled, consisting of a myriad of coaches as mentioned above. For the modeller, it is important to note that if accuracy is wished for, there is virtually no such thing as a train, goods or passenger, local or mainline, consisting of a line of all the one type of wagon or coach, like today. (The railways were interesting back then!). The above is to set the scene. Notes on liveries: by now, on the newly-formed NIR, UTA green still predominates on the couple of dozen loco-hauled coaches they still have which are still serviceable. Within a year, about half or more of these will be repainted in NIR’s “loco-hauled” livery of all over maroon with a waistline 3 inch light grey line. The old BCDR loco is black, though so extremely filthy that it is impossible to discern any livery – the same is true, for the most part, of the steam engines, though some crews keep theirs moderately presentable! Railcars on the NCC section and the Bangor line are mostly the new NIR livery of maroon with upper light grey, though quite a few MPD cars remain green. On the GN section, several power cars and at least one centre car (an ex-GN brake third) remain in the short-lived GN section livery of blue and cream. AEC car No. 111 springs to mind. It is important to note that this was not the same as GNR livery, which was much darker, almost navy blue, and below window level only with a black line separating them. The current RPSI Cravens livery is almost like a cross between the two! UTA wagon stock consists of old open wagons used only for ballast, and the new spoil wagons. They have no vans apart from a couple of derelict ones lying about – I recall a BCDR one at GVS, still in BCDR grey with BCDR markings. The spoils are a light duck-egg greyish blue all over (no, no black chassis!). The ballast stock are all still in old UTA liveries: those of ex normal stock are all over grey, a darker shade than CIE, being a throwback to NCC days, and thus closest to LMS wagon grey in England. Those formerly allocated to Courtaulds coal traffic in Carrickfergus are a brownish red colour, often incorrectly called “bauxite” (which is brown, not reddish-tinted). I can’t recall exactly, but while body ironwork was the same brownish colour, the chassis of these, for once, might have been black. I’ll check this if I remember! Parcels vans are NCC “brown vans”, as on the NCC. Most still UTA green, but so dirty from brake dust that they actually look brown in many cases. A few are newly painted in NIR maroon, with lightish grey roofs, yellow lettering and black chassis, as they operate in passenger trains. Train operations: NIR as mentioned above. Dublin area – AEC cars and some loco hauled on local services Cork area – suburban trains loco hauled. 141s and Cs dominate, with stock a mix of Bredins, Park Royals, laminates and quite a few older wooden carriages, by now all of GSWR parentage. No DSER or MGWR bogie stock have operated for almost ten years. Main lines – 121, 141 & 181 classes dominate virtually all passenger trains; same mix of carriages (except wooden), but with the Cravens spread among them though a higher proportion on the Cork line and the “Enterprise”. Goods trains also see the GMs, but the “A” class are there too, as are the few B101s left. “C” class locos are underpowered for main line use and see most action on shunting and PW duties, mixing this with B101s. I will proceed to give a rough outline (and rough it is) of developments in future years in the next bit.

They got it done quick enough - they've only been talking about it since about 1860..... Hmmmm.... Dublin has needed an underground system for decades. They talk of Metro. If Shane Ross lives to be 400, it'll still never get done. Well, maybe if Shaney (my local TD, BTW) DOESN'T live to be 400, it'll get built sooner!

The BR Mk 1 profile also isn't quite right....that's the thing about modelling Irish passenger stock - apart from more modern stuff like Mk 2 and Mk 3, very little in Brexitland corresponds with anything here! Having said that, of course anything can be adapted. An "end" piece can have its sides filed to correspond with most this side of the pond. The 70 class (and many types of laminates) curved in at the lower end, but were virtually or in some cases literally straight (vertical) on their upper sides.

Window-wise, this looks 70-class-ish. But the side profile wouldn’t be.....

Pm sent! lovely job!

I had considered (and may do again) a line which resulted from the Parsonstown & Portumna bridge line having been extended to Loughrea. Once the GSR takes over, it becomes quite logically a single route, with services operating from Attymon or Galway - Ballybrophy. Hey presto: Midland and Southern stock on the same line.

I had forgotten the tablet catchers were black.....

I love this!

Nah.....that one’s narra gauge.....

David Your research (and imagination!) inspires, and I know I'm not the only one following this project with great interest. You invited comment; here goes with my penny's worth.... To do 1904 and 1950 will obviously require two sets of rolling stock, but in such a scenario the station would almost certainly not have changed one bit from opening to closing! The only thing is to decide who built it. If it was the MGWR, station building woodwork would be painted bright red and (I believe) a light sandy beige colour (or cream)?). The station sign would be wooden, with white letters on a black background. If WLWR, green paintwork as far as I know, though I could be wrong on that, and station signs were enamel, in navy blue with white letters. It's hardly likely the SLNCR would have built it. But buildings and track - same in any era. For the 1950 era, you're probably looking at a J15 or two from Claremorris, something SLNCR as you say above, from Collooney, and probably a G2 (650 class) 2.4.0 from Ballina. The only difference between then and 1904, is that earlier you've something like the "Wolf Dog" and maybe another small 2.4.0 of some sort - or even a J26 tank engine (I think you have one of those?). Plus, or course, in 1904 you have brighter liveries instead of plain black on the SLNCR and plain grey on everything else. In 1904, SLNCR are using dark green (darker than your model, though), and you still have the odd loco in WLWR lined maroon, plus lined black GSWR. Traffic wise, nothing much would change over 1904-50. I would suspect that a SLNCR train would indeed be a couple of six-wheelers. There would usually be something like a 1st / 2nd compo, a third and a brake third. However, exactly the same type of formation would be in the MGWR and GSWR / WLWR trains. What few bogie coaches were about then wouldn't have ever ventured to a place like that (until maybe about 1910). The SLNCR's trio of bogies hadn't been even dreamed of, and the WLWR only had half a dozen in total, which would be on Limerick - Waterford trains mostly, possibly north Kerry the odd time. Mails were carried in the guard's van. You didn't really get dedicated mail vans on lines like that - however, artisitic licence might allow a mail train on account of some new port. This, again, might allow a "boat train" once a day - probably from the W & L direction. Goods traffic would primarily be vans for the same reason, and then there's the inevitable monthly cattle fair, with good healthy beasts being walked up from Binghamstown and other places on the Belmullet peninsula. As an aside: You had mentioned Alphagraphix kits (as have others lately.....). Interesting stuff! I recently obtained an Alphagraphix catalogue, as a result of a conversation with another member on here who has just done some of their kits. I have to say that they are unusual in a number of respects. On the positive side, they are inexpensive and probably a good way for those on a budget to enter the more historical Irish scene. With a combination of metal and card, this is an innovative idea (I know, since the 1980s!) and great for certain circumstances. Also, since in the Irish modelling scene beggars can't be choosers, they have an unrivalled range of stuff, 00 and 0 gauge, broad and narrow gauge. They produce models of things which wouldn't come remotely close to being economically viable if attempted by the many manufacturers we see discussed and advertised here regularly. They must be greatly congratulated on all of the above. That's all positive. But those who know me will see as absolutely predictable what's coming next. If the pictures in the catalogue are anything to go by, many of these are unneccesarily (and some might say inexcusably) in liveries which far from being a bit "wrong", are entirely fictitious in every single detail. MGWR six-wheelers are shown in bright unlined green. Not one company in the country ever painted a single carriage in bright unlined green. MGWR stock was brown. Some CIE carriages are presented in a quite acceptable lined green for card kits, but others are shown in plain green with gold shaded numbers on them. Again, nothing close to anything real. GSR, GSWR and NCC stock is shown in bright red, a la County Donegal. The GSR and NCC used maroon - LMS maroon in fact. Over in the Republic of Brexit you'd never get a carriage in bright red. GSWR stock wasn't ever red - it was a very dark maroon, so dark that it looked almost dark brown. Like Guinness; now there's a thought. SLNCR stock is in crazy colours. The "Bandon Tank" is in an unlined green, unlike anything real, as is "Argadeen". Modern plain yellow numbers are shown on the Bandon Tank. I could go on and on and on, to the extent of driving most readers to their best smelling salts. But I add this for one reason and one reason only, as I always do - for the sake of clarifying historical accuracy for those interested. I'll add one more - the eternal Irish disease seen in models and in RPSI, DCDR and UFTM preservation - an obsession with black chassis, black drawgear and black ironwork on just about anything that isn't a passenger vehicle (which DID have black chassis!). Even the excellent models of Mr Chown show this on his GSWR brake van. Rant entirely over. While I repeatedly refer to livery details, let me assure all that is meant for clarification purposes - because there ARE those who like me take the view that colour is the first thing you see on anything. For others, it's less important, or maybe doesn't even matter. A Murphy 071 in Isle of Man bright green - yes, I'd accept it wouldn't look bad - or a yellow track machine painted black all over. But few modern modellers, who see modern stuff day-to-day, would be impressed, I suspect, with a beautiful train of IRM bubbles or exhibition-standard HOBS painted in blue and red all over, with an inaccurate-designed NIR symbol on some and a BR double-arrow on others. Yet, that's what we seem to see regularly on both models and the real thing. Whitehead's "Ivan" brake van with its black zebra stripes makes me dizzy to look at. Contradictory as it might sound, I will close with what still MUST be Rule No. 1 for every single modeller, "It's YOUR railway and you can do what YOU want!". And that's the first rule that I respect too, totally. I've finished my tea, and my smelling salts; good night to all!

What scale are the IOM locos, colin?

Sounds like a perfect plan!!

I'm still awaiting the next train to Achill.....

All PW stuff was normal wagon grey until the very early 1970s, when by degrees it became normal wagon brown! Yellow started appearing, first of all on track machines in the 1970s, but moving on to “proper” railway vehicles like ballast wagons, weedspray vehicles, and plough vans during the 1980s / early 90s. The two converted “tin van” TPOs, one of which has recently gone to Downpatrick, were actually painted in something like carriage orange/tan, all over, but faded to look more yellowy.

Woodwork on or around doors and window frames was mid-green. Badly faded and work-worn in your era.

Yellow stuff isn’t my thing at all, but I have to say I remain absolutely gobsmacked at the exceptional quality of everything that emanates from Chateau IRM. An excellent and timely addition to the modern scene!

Truly inspiring work to your usual high standard.

Saw that, derailed. I would have been interested but the budget this year has to be kept for "A" class diesels from IRM!

Love it!!

More than happy to...... like TTC, I have an involvement too. For a while there won't be a huge amount to report, other than minutae, but as and when anything significant occurs, TTC and myself can post details.

Yes, Ulsterbus Bill, that was a period with much to see; doesn't it always seem as if the generation before us had it all? (In my case, steam, which I only remember in its last dying decade). I must dig out some photos i have, but from memory, what was about York Road in the early 1990s (both IN traffic and in "storage") was as follows: The three DH shunters. One in maroon with light grey stripes, two in light grey with maroon stripes (or maybe two and one!). In their short life they had three liveries. The ex-CIE "C" class locos, which NIR called "MV" (for "Metrovick" - even though they then had GM engines) or "104" class. One remained in faded CIE livery, as it had only been acquired for spares. The rest were in NIR plain blue with a "day-glo" orange upside-down chevron on the front (not yellow). 80 class railcars - most in the new light grey with blue upper part, and white-black-white-yellow stripe at waist level. A couple still in all-light-grey with broad maroon stripe below window, the livery in which three sets had been lent to Irish Rail. Others retained the short-lived and quite hideous "Suburban" red and cream (not light grey), with orange stripe. The 071 class ("GM" or "111" class to NIR) trio used on the "Enterprise" in their earlier lighter blue, with day-glo orange rectangles on the ends. The YELLOW end patches appeared once they were repainted the darker blue they carry now. The "Hunslets". No. 103 was scrapped, and 101 was derelict, but 102 soldiered on, and in between long spells out of traffic, she shunted Adelaide goods yard. The Hunslets were a bad design, underpowered for the work they were acquired for. Thus, they were overworked in their early years, leading to unreliability before long, and as a result they had a short life. More often than not, shunting at Adelaide was carried out by IE locos. I think it was 154 or 155 that was virtually based there for several years on loan. (This led to rumours that NIR would buy a couple of 141s from IE, as shunter / PW locos, and send 112 south in exchange; this loco spent about six years on loan to IE and appeared on everything from beet to the Ballina branch train....but that's another tale.) The MED and MPD classes were by then out of use, and the 70s scrapped. Go a few years earlier, to lets say the mid 1980s, and the modeller can add to the above eclectic list the last two MPD cars in use, one still in maroon and grey and the other in blue and maroon; some 70s, still with ex-NCC or GNR coaches as centre cars, and the last few MED sets, none of which were ever repainted blue and maroon. NIR and the UTA are often ignored by modellers. Scenically, much of the small network isn't on a par with places further south or west, but a layout based around Castlerock - Downhill tunnel would be spectacular! The "Troubles" led to some stations looking little better than derelict, with temporary buildings after bombs, sectarian graffiti and a general air of depressing dereliction - but that in itself, as a background, is as historically interesting as it is unique in modelling terms. And gems still existed - Lisburn station is a W H Mills delight to this day, with a background of beautiful mature trees. Derry's Waterside station was a spectacular setting for a layout until it was blown up. Go back to the 1960s, and what about the Derry Road for a layout? Sheer gem that would be. In the twilight years of Grosvenor Road good yard in Belfast, much scope is there for the modeller - the elusive BCDR diesel No. 28, which shunted dilapidated UTA goods wagons and CIE "H" vans about through the weeds until 1965, and CIE's Dundalk goods trains until its demise in 1972. The tail end of steam; a tatty "Jeep" on a ballast train sits, in summer 1970, alongside a pristine "whistler" "Hunslet" and its brand new BR-style Mk 2s, while an eclectic mix of MEDs, AECs, and BUTs await their next jaunt to Portadown. Ditch the "Jeep" and call it 1974, and you can add a few 70 and 80 class cars too. (70s, incidentally, while they appeared on the "Enterprise" in the late '60s, seem to have all migrated to the NCC by the early 70s - only to reappear on locals, especially when the Derry trains were re-routed via the Antrim branch in 1976). I look forward to seeing Ballyshane develop. If money and time was unlimited, and we all lived in buildings the size of Leinster House, you could model the lot. Like you, I settle for something that can be a "microcosm" layout, as the Planning Dept. of the Ministry of Domestic matters needs to be negotiated with regarding an extension. You think Brexit is complicated; securing such permission is an ongoing work..... Enough ramblings of an oul wan. My coffee is getting cold and I've stuff to do.

Commenting on the bits you mentioned above: 1. The NCC had much concrete structural work - in fact they were one of the first companies in Ireland to use it on a widespread basis. 2. Derry-style freight operation - much scope there for the modeller! If you're dealing with the period where NIR's second-hand "C" class locos were in operation (1980s), you're into cement bubbles and fertiliser; doubtless you'll have some of IRM's "bubbles" ready! And RTR fertiliser wagons are something for the future, we hope. 3. 70 and 80 class sets, also MEDs, almost always ran in 3-car sets, especially the 70s. However, 2-car sets were to be seen occasionally (especially in the case of 80s). In the 1980s there were still two steam-era coaches used as railcar intermediates with 70s. One was ex-NCC No. 526, which remained in maroon and light grey until its demise in 1981 or 1982, the last steam-era coach still in use in Ireland. It dated from 1926, and retained its internal mahogany seat frames and high seat backs to the end. Then there was 727, and ex-GNR K15 and the last GN passenger coach in traffic. It ended in the maroon and blue livery but internally still had its grey and red GNR upholstery in part. The UTA and NIR receive less attention than the bigger and more varied CIE. But there is very much of interest in your scenario. If you expand your "timeline", than up to 1970 you can include a filthy "Jeep" on a ballast train, and maroon Hunslet on the goods. You could even have a visiting AEC or BUT set, even though these very rarely left ex-GNR metals. A Sunday School steam excursion could bring in an eclectic mix of old ex-GN and ex-NCC steam carriages, hauled by the same Jeep. Goods can be in the hands of a pair of MPD railcars - which they were more often than with locos after 1965. "Poetic licence" might allow a CIE 141 in (if you can get one!) with a goods. In the period you're going for, cement, Guinness and fertiliser were the traffic on the NCC from Lisburn to Derry. Only mail and parcels went to Larne. With Derry services going via Lisburn to Central, the Larne line was "cut off". The "Red Star" containers were carried on long-wheelbase four wheeled flats converted mostly from "brown van" chassis, but weren't lifted on and off them - wagon plus container functioned as a goods van. The "spoil" wagons are a great idea. In those times the ex-CIE locos were the staple motive power. "Hunslet" 102, the only remaining one, spent its interludes in service shunting Adelaide goods yard and rarely if ever went anywhere near Larne, or indeed anywhere else up the NCC. Most of the time, though, it was out of use - the Hunslets were a poor design to start with, and unsuited to the work they were ordered for. Thus, too-heavy initial use made them unreliable. You might eventually have a few battered oul four wheel wagons and one of Leslie McAllister's ex-GNR guards vans for a ballast train, hauled by a "DH" 0.6.0 diesel shunter (English Electric, 1969). If it's two-car passenger trains you want, the last two MPD cars were sometimes run on locals as a pair, though to be accurate usually only as far as Carrickfergus. While one had gained the then modern blue and maroon livery, the other remained maroon and light grey to the end. I always like seeing northern-based layouts, as there is much there that has yet to be modelled by more than a handful of good folk. Looking forward to seeing this one develop. Good luck with it.

Pity the yoke beyond it didn;'t survive. If I remember, it was one of the last WLWR coaches to survive. Belturbet's 900 is the only one now, after their (derelict) Director's Saloon (934) was burned by scumbags at Mullingar about thirty years ago.

Correct! I like to think it all went pear-shaped after the Post Office cancelled the mail contract with the MGWR for the Achill line..... Letter posted to Mr. Alphagraphix now; by DSER / LNWR he should have it in half an hour! With An Post and Royal Mail, he might get it by July. I didn't say which July....... Anyway, I've laboured that point ad infinitum. I look forward to seeing what his wares are. If the catalogue lends itself in any way to reproduction of the Irish stuff, I'll post a list here of what he offers.